Two Additional Needs Remain: SS and IOL

DaBruinz said:

How do you know it was a "blown coverage" by Roberts? Do you know what play was called? Everyone and their brother knows that Roberts isn't good in coverage. Why would the Pats put him in that position? Are you saying that BB / Patricia set the team up to fail?

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It looked to me like it was Robert's responsibility on that play. Can't say for certain though.

AzPatsFan said:

I do not think the IOL needs anymore help, any more. Between Karras, Fleming, who is a great drive blocker, and perhaps Douglas and Crofton they have plenty of IOL depth. Fleming merited his run blocking reputation in college, and his pass blocking proved well above most IOL capabilities, when he played LOT and did a creditable job there.

Ditto for Safety and Strong Safety as well. Richards, and the rooks, have solidified that position too.

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I'd take Zack Martin or Marshall Yanda as backups, and Kam Chancellor is an upgrade over Richards.

But yeah, realistically, we're pretty set.

convertedpatsfan said:

I understand, I'm just saying that I don't see any obvious upgrades without doing something drastic. .

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I don't see how it takes something drastic to upgrade from Douglas as the 9th OL or from Richards as the #2 SS.

Harris will not be the last free agent available to the patriots. Sure, they might spend a late rounder as they often do, if necessary.

This is cap era football, not Pokemon. Not even Belichick can collect-em-all.

A team can have a few structural weaknesses. That's OK. Just manage for them and play to your strengths.

mgteich said:

I don't see how it takes something drastic to upgrade from Douglas as the 9th OL or from Richards as the #2 SS.

Harris will not be the last free agent available to the patriots. Sure, they might spend a late rounder as they often do, if necessary.

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I understood what you were saying, I just don't see the obvious corresponding move.

I trust in Dante to deal with the OL, and if he wasn't happy, I think we would have made a move somewhere.

And which safety do you project to be our #4 safety who will be better than Richards, especially since he has two years in the system now?

I'd be more worried about the line if Googs was still coaching it instead of Scar.

Aah, I see your issue. You presume that if I see an issue, I should e able to solve it. I cannot. Belichick has a staff that does an unbelievable job at scoring the free agents, those on other teams now, those likely to be cut in the late cuts, and even those that teams are willing to part with.

I don't know whether there is a better option than Richards out there, or a better option that what we have as IOL backups.

Folks have made guesses. Awhile ago, folks wanted Harris and Mangold. We were all set folks said. And now we have Harris. There is likely to be another addition or two who might be a significant contributor, or at least an injury backup.

convertedpatsfan said:

I understood what you were saying, I just don't see the obvious corresponding move.

I trust in Dante to deal with the OL, and if he wasn't happy, I think we would have made a move somewhere.

And which safety do you project to be our #4 safety who will be better than Richards, especially since he has two years in the system now?

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mgteich said:

Aah, I see your issue. You presume that if I see an issue, I should e able to solve it. I cannot. Belichick has a staff that does an unbelievable job at scoring the free agents, those on other teams now, those likely to be cut in the late cuts, and even those that teams are willing to part with.

I don't know whether there is a better option than Richards out there, or a better option that what we have as IOL backups.

Folks have made guesses. Awhile ago, folks wanted Harris and Mangold. We were all set folks said. And now we have Harris. There is likely to be another addition or two who might be a significant contributor, or at least an injury backup.

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Understanding that you're just using one quick example, I'm just not seeing it with Mangold. I don't think the upgrade over Andrews would be worth the assumed significant increase in cost, not to mention that Andrews has done pretty well and was recently extended, himself. I don't think that was done with the intention of making him a backup.

I suppose one could argue that Mangold would be a good choice if an injury occurred, and/or he would be moved from center to guard, where an injury would have occurred there; otherwise, I'm not seeing the need for him, specifically. Call me crazy, but I think Ferentz could be a realistic PS candidate as our backup center if he has anything close to a decent showing. We already know that Karras can backup all three IOL positions.

mgteich said:

Aah, I see your issue. You presume that if I see an issue, I should e able to solve it. I cannot. Belichick has a staff that does an unbelievable job at scoring the free agents, those on other teams now, those likely to be cut in the late cuts, and even those that teams are willing to part with.

I don't know whether there is a better option than Richards out there, or a better option that what we have as IOL backups.

Folks have made guesses. Awhile ago, folks wanted Harris and Mangold. We were all set folks said. And now we have Harris. There is likely to be another addition or two who might be a significant contributor, or at least an injury backup.

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Well yes and no.

No doubt, the team will always look to improve. That goes for the rest of the roster as well. I agree about that.

At the same time, there's a difference between a "want" and a "need." If it's a need, you should act on it because, well, you need it. There are better safeties than Jordan Richards, but you have to give up quite a bit of draft capital to get one right now. Do you need to upgrade your #4 safety? Probably not. Would you want to? Sure. But you don't necessarily have to give up a ton to do so.

At the same time, you could argue he is the best #4 safety in the league. This isn't because he's good, but it's more about the general quality of backup safeties. Harmon as a #3 is a luxury most teams don't have, and those teams are praying they don't get to #3, let alone #4.

The Seahawks have one of the best secondaries in the league, but their safety depth features umm...Tendric Thompson? And Neiko Thorpe? The Ravens have Weddle and Jefferson as starters, former cornerback Webb as their #3, and Otha Foster (?) as their #4.

So if the chance to upgrade arises and it doesn't cost much, sure. But I don't think we need to trade a 4th round pick or anything to do it. It's not a need to me. I'll gladly take the upgrade if it's available without compromising the future, but if doing so hampers us down the road, I don't think it's a major thing.

The fact that the roster is loaded does not indicate that there will be less competition in camp. We will still get surprised this year. We just have less visibility into what those surprises will be because the apparent gap between the players we presume to be starters and quality backups, and the rookies and UDFA's, is larger than usual. But we know we suffer from blind spots, that players will surprise this summer, that injuries will happen, and some players' performance will drop off from last year.

Overall I agree with MG's original position that IOL and SS are the positions with the most need for quality backups. But wow is that different from prior years. To have this much strength at WR, RB, DT, and CB is just weird.

supafly said:

Understanding that you're just using one quick example, I'm just not seeing it with Mangold. I don't think the upgrade over Andrews would be worth the assumed significant increase in cost, not to mention that Andrews has done pretty well and was recently extended, himself. I don't think that was done with the intention of making him a backup.

I suppose one could argue that Mangold would be a good choice if an injury occurred, and/or he would be moved from center to guard, where an injury would have occurred there; otherwise, I'm not seeing the need for him, specifically. Call me crazy, but I think Ferentz could be a realistic PS candidate as our backup center if he has anything close to a decent showing. We already know that Karras can backup all three IOL positions.

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Yes, Mangold was just an example. Apparently, the team doesn't think that he is a fit for us. We're better off with a low cost veteran who can back uno both center and guard. As we have discussed, we may have many possibilities on the squad already.

mgteich said:

I don't see how it takes something drastic to upgrade from Douglas as the 9th OL or from Richards as the #2 SS.

Harris will not be the last free agent available to the patriots. Sure, they might spend a late rounder as they often do, if necessary.

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Depending how his MCL recovery goes, Id love for them to sign DeAndrew Levy, even if it means sitting him for the first half of the season. When healthy, he is a top 10 LB, and top 3 in coverage. Could be the missing piece.

aluminum seats said:

It looked to me like it was Robert's responsibility on that play. Can't say for certain though.

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It was indeed Roberts' responsibility, without a doubt…and he blew it.

supafly said:

...We already know that Karras can backup all three IOL positions.

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No we don't.

captain stone said:

No we don't.

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He can, we just don't know how effectively he'd do it.

HawaiianPatsfan said:

Depending how his MCL recovery goes, Id love for them to sign DeAndrew Levy, even if it means sitting him for the first half of the season. When healthy, he is a top 10 LB, and top 3 in coverage. Could be the missing piece.

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This falls under the old "it's never good enough" category. Belichick finally goes out, spends like a drunken sailor and makes huge moves all offseason, thus solidifying an already SB winning roster, and we're still discussing a guy who's started a total of FOUR games since the end of the 2014 season.

He extended HT at a hefty price, brought in former pro bowler David Harris, made Langi the highest paid UDFA in the entire NFL, used the first selection in the draft on Rivers, extended Freeny, has McClellin on a 3.3m dollar cap hit, and even threw in extra incentives for Chung, who often plays in the box. Add in longtime leader Rob Ninkovich and it would seem that we should be covered at the position of LB. If a guy like Bates surprises, all the better. Even if Levy signed for the veteran minimum, I'm not sure he'd have much of a role here, if at all.

supafly said:

He can, we just don't know how effectively he'd do it...

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…and I hope we never get to find out.

captain stone said:

It was indeed Roberts' responsibility, without a doubt…and he blew it.

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He got pushed to the ground by Sanu quite obviously on that play, should have been an OPI-Penalty.

captain stone said:

…and I hope we never get to find out.

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Absolutely, although I think he may be the first in at this point in time. One could certainly argue that Douglas would be ahead of him at center. I'd love to see a vet cap casualty brought in, but I don't think it's going to be another big splash signing.

supafly said:

This falls under the old "it's never good enough" category. Belichick finally goes out, spends like a drunken sailor and makes huge moves all offseason, thus solidifying an already SB winning roster, and we're still discussing a guy who's started a total of FOUR games since the end of the 2014 season.

He extended HT at a hefty price, brought in former pro bowler David Harris, made Langi the highest paid UDFA in the entire NFL, used the first selection in the draft on Rivers, extended Freeny, has McClellin on a 3.3m dollar cap hit, and even threw in extra incentives for Chung, who often plays in the box. Add in longtime leader Rob Ninkovich and it would seem that we should be covered at the position of LB. If a guy like Bates surprises, all the better. Even if Levy signed for the veteran minimum, I'm not sure he'd have much of a role here, if at all.

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You're trying to criticize fans of this team for always wanting more, or wanting to improve, even if it's in the slightest.

You do understand who the coach of this team is right?

Bill Belichick is the definition of "it's never good enough"