OT: "Tim Tebow believes. Do you?"

PatsFanSince74 said:

He's hitting .232 in Class A with an OBP of .315. That's not going to get him to The Show anytime soon, but those are numbers that a bona fide "prospect" would put up in his first year at that level.

There's no indication that he has an "attitude" or that the other guys in the locker room are resentful of him and that this is all about "the spotlight." He gives a lot of his paycheck to Charity and seems like a decent and grateful guy. In other words, I think you've chosen a fitting Screen Name.

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Except Class A is meant for 18-20 year old kids and Tebow is close to 30, I doubt he'd hit half that at double A, so not only is he literally a man playing amongt boys, he's still not very good while taking the roster spot of one of those actual 18-20 year old kids.

I never said he has an "attitude" or that other guys are resentful of him. And nothing says charity more than screaming from the top of the mountain how much you give to charity.

Armchair Quarterback said:

Except Class A is meant for 18-20 year old kids and Tebow is close to 30, I doubt he'd hit half that at double A, so not only is he literally a man playing amongt boys, he's still not very good while taking the roster spot of one of those actual 18-20 year old kids.

I never said he has an "attitude" or that other guys are resentful of him. And nothing says charity more than screaming from the top of the mountain how much you give to charity.

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We'll just have to disagree.
Thanks for the conversation.

The premise that Tebow is selfish because he wouldn't accept a TE role assumes he possesses a second skill set that includes blocking, route running, pass catching. Where did this come from?
Demonizing based on a false narrative is pretty convenient.
Carry on.

Fixit said:

Yep. He seemed like a great guy, but we've seem what players (especially QBs) can accomplish when they acknowledge that the QB dream is dead and they dedicate themselves to learning a new role. Tebow is not one of those players. I hate to think where we'd be if Edelman had been that stubborn.

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The Patriots would've been fine without Edelman, it's probably Edelman who would've been selling used cars now if he refused to not give up quarterbacking.

(disclosure: love JE11 and what he's done for the Pats)

tasmlab said:

The Patriots would've been fine without Edelman, it's probably Edelman who would've been selling used cars now if he refused to not give up quarterbacking.

(disclosure: love JE11 and what he's done for the Pats)

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"...fine without Edelman..."? Well, if by "fine" you mean still waiting for their 4th SB win, you're right.

PatsFanSince74 said:

He's hitting .232 in Class A with an OBP of .315. That's not going to get him to The Show anytime soon, but those are numbers that a6 bona fide "prospect" would put up in his first year at that level.

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I like Tebow, but those numbers are league average for the Sally League. To be a bona fide prospect who is a league average hitter would require some sort of defensive projection (Tebow projects as a bottom of the spectrum defender) or past success vs solid competition (Tebow was terrible in the Arizona Fall League). These things make him a non prospect before his age is factored in. I wish Tebow all the success, it just isn't going to happen on the baseball diamond.

Simpelton said:

Agreed. Tebow could have done the Edelman thing and been very very good. He was more than athletic enough to have success as a receiver or possibly even a tight end.

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Not fast enough to be a WR and not big enough to be a TE. Can we please stop it with this nonsense?

patchick said:

I wish nothing but good for Mr. Tebow, but I'm always surprised by sentiments like this. We're talking about a man who decided he'd rather have the cameras on him as a talking head rather than accept playing any position other than quarterback.

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I've never quite understood this assumption about Tebow being qualified for another NFL position, as if all he had to do was volunteer to play fullback or tight end, etc. and he'd be roster-worthy. Fact is, he WASN'T capable and probably would've been even worse elsewhere than he was at quarterback.

We need a damned exorcist to rid this board of the demonic Tebowcifer...."teveni...tevidi..tevici.."...he came...he threw...he sukked.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

I like Tebow, but those numbers are league average for the Sally League. To be a bona fide prospect who is a league average hitter would require some sort of defensive projection (Tebow projects as a bottom of the spectrum defender) or past success vs solid competition (Tebow was terrible in the Arizona Fall League). These things make him a non prospect before his age is factored in. I wish Tebow all the success, it just isn't going to happen on the baseball diamond.

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I don't see it happening either.

I was just making the point that we shouldn't be slamming the guy for being given a chance to give it a shot. Any player on the Single A cut line from whom he might have taken a slot at that level wasn't going to make it to the Majors either. BTW, Tebow went 9 for 20 at the end of April, after a miserable start, so his natural athleticism has served him well and justified his being there (at that level).

I live in NYC, so I followed the Tabloid and local coverage of his "debut." Like the NFL, MLB is a business. In this case, it's a business that's struggling to keep its fanbase and TV audience.

The Mets and the League got a lot of free media coverage out of his "tryout," nearly all of which was "feel good" stuff, in contrast to the stories coming out of Fenway these days.

Tebow has attracted fans who would have never thought of going to a Single A ball game, giving his team and his teammates more exposure.

He made a couple of Spring Training starts for the Mets, in which he pretty much sucked. But, his Jersey will be a Collector's item. If the Mets season continues to swirl around in the toilet, they might even bring him up in September to put some fannies in the seats. I can't wait to hear the "outrage" if that happens...it'll be fun to listen to.

I doubt he'll play past this season...maybe next...but it's been a "win-win" all around as far as I can see.

The guy is chasing his dreams, and I'm all for that. Objectively, I don't see him getting very far, but if he can learn to appreciate the experience, maybe he can look back on it all fondly. Though he never turned into a true sports superstar after his time in Florida, he got to win an NFL playoff game and play minor league ball...still a pretty cool life.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

I like Tebow, but those numbers are league average for the Sally League. To be a bona fide prospect who is a league average hitter would require some sort of defensive projection (Tebow projects as a bottom of the spectrum defender) or past success vs solid competition (Tebow was terrible in the Arizona Fall League). These things make him a non prospect before his age is factored in. I wish Tebow all the success, it just isn't going to happen on the baseball diamond.

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Now now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. At first the narrative is that he's so far behind the curve he wouldn't hit at all on any level, now just a few months into his pro career he's putting up average numbers at A ball.

This is not a conventional prospect who's been playing the game for years, it's reasonable to expect a little experience to result in large gains. Large enough to make a pro baller out of him? That remains to be seen. It didn't work for Drew Henson, but Tebow is not Drew Henson.

It's gonna take at least 2 seasons before we know anything about Tebow as a baseball player, much less predict whether or not he's got a future in MLB. The time window is narrow, if he doesn't make rapid progress he'll never make it -- but compared to his AFL tenure last year, he has already made rapid progress.

All I'm saying is, keep an open mind. It's a lot easier to say it'll never happen if you're sufficiently determined not to let it happen. He's getting his chance to prove things one way or another. Approaching the situation with speculative prejudice doesn't help anyone.

patchick said:

I wish nothing but good for Mr. Tebow, but I'm always surprised by sentiments like this. We're talking about a man who decided he'd rather have the cameras on him as a talking head rather than accept playing any position other than quarterback. He's always struck me as an individual struggling with "post-quarterback syndrome" -- having a hard time adjusting to being a guy, not The Guy.

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That's fair, but he was willing to do whatever was needed on the Jets. He decided to walk away than sign to do that again. Which is perfectly fair, it's his life. As long as when he's on the team he has to be a team player which he was. I wish him well and hope he succeeds. Would be too funny if he somehow makes the MLB and wins a world series on the ugliest homer ever hit.

Too bad he didn't stick with us, it would have been fun to see him get himself a ring. His preseason with us really was horrible though - the team didn't have much of a choice.

Armchair Quarterback said:

Except Class A is meant for 18-20 year old kids and Tebow is close to 30, I doubt he'd hit half that at double A, so not only is he literally a man playing amongt boys, he's still not very good while taking the roster spot of one of those actual 18-20 year old kids.

I never said he has an "attitude" or that other guys are resentful of him. And nothing says charity more than screaming from the top of the mountain how much you give to charity.

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Disclaimer: I hate Tebow.

I agree Tebow is a non-prospect (and that his numbers are especially bad, given that he's a grown man going up against many fresh-out-of-high-school, gangly, twig-armed teenagers), but I can't help think of Rick Ankiel. When he announced he was converting to a full-time outfielder, it was truly shocking. It happened abruptly and completely out of the blue when he was 25; he then got was injured and missed his entire age-26 MiLB season. Most felt the way they do about Tebow now: "this is a complete joke and a mockery of the game".

However, Ankiel actually produced a couple of respectable years as an MLB OF (over his first two seasons back, he slashed .270 / .334 / .515 and had 36 HR over 585 AB), and also had two of the most astonishing outfield assists I've ever seen -- IN THE SAME GAME.

Again, let me reiterate that I absolutely, 100% do not believe Tebow will amount to anything. There situations aren't comparable at all; Ankiel had a baseball background, he routinely took batting practice since he was an NL pitcher, he was younger than Tebow, etc. I'm mostly just parlaying this into a reason to talk about Ankiel, because what he managed to do was amazing.

Fixit said:

Yep. He seemed like a great guy, but we've seem what players (especially QBs) can accomplish when they acknowledge that the QB dream is dead and they dedicate themselves to learning a new role. Tebow is not one of those players. I hate to think where we'd be if Edelman had been that stubborn.

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So many issues with this drivel. First off, when did the Edelmans of the NFL give up their QB dreams? About 5 minutes after their last collegiate game. Reason....the league would never give 'em a sniff as a QB....let alone draft them as a 1st round QB like Tebow. Should Tebow not have taken the "selfish" path of trying to succeed at the position he was drafted? Is Tebow the only player labeled "stubborn" for daring to play the position he was drafted for? How dare he!
Next foolishness.....the narrative that Tebow could step in as an NFL TE....based on ...who the f*%k knows. And how many NFL QBs have transitioned into other positions years into their pro career? But Tebow is "selfish" for not taking the path NEVER taken because he is "stubborn".
Brilliant stuff

sb1 said:

Everyone knows that Tebow is a brand much more than an athlete.

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The "not much of an athlete" has a somewhat impressive resume despite the ignorance of some.

• 2× BCS national champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC Player of the Year (2008, 2009)
• Manning Award (2008)
• 2× Maxwell Award (2007, 2008)
• Heisman Trophy (2007)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2007)[1]
• AP Player of the Year (2007)[2]
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2007)
• 2× First-team All-American (2007, 2008)
• Second-team All-American (2009)
• 3× First-team All-SEC (2007–2009)

1st round draft pick, starting NFL QB, playoff QB, 12 rushing TDs, etc.
And now professional baseball player.

patchick said:

"Doing anything to win" in a team sport includes the willingness to give your all in a smaller role to help the team -- not just doggedly pursuing your own grand dream.

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Interesting...when other QBs fail in the NFL, why aren't they labeled selfish or stubborn for "doggedly persuing their grand dream".......just Tebow.
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Such prejudice towards the guy says plenty....about the bloviators making such ignorant statements.

Edit: Tim Tebow is playing the lowest level of pro -baseball...therefore he "can't live without the spotlight on him".
Tony Romo is reportedly going for his PGA tour card this year. Will he be pinned with the same "can't live without the spotlight" label....or is this label exclusive for Tebow?

Believe that God laughs watching him try to throw a pass? Yes I do.

borg said:

So many issues with this drivel. First off, when did the Edelmans of the NFL give up their QB dreams? About 5 minutes after their last collegiate game. Reason....the league would never give 'em a sniff as a QB....let alone draft them as a 1st round QB like Tebow. Should Tebow not have taken the "selfish" path of trying to succeed at the position he was drafted? Is Tebow the only player labeled "stubborn" for daring to play the position he was drafted for? How dare he!
Next foolishness.....the narrative that Tebow could step in as an NFL TE....based on ...who the f*%k knows. And how many NFL QBs have transitioned into other positions years into their pro career? But Tebow is "selfish" for not taking the path NEVER taken because he is "stubborn".
Brilliant stuff

The "not much of an athlete" has a somewhat impressive resume despite the ignorance of some.

• 2× BCS national champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC Player of the Year (2008, 2009)
• Manning Award (2008)
• 2× Maxwell Award (2007, 2008)
• Heisman Trophy (2007)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2007)[1]
• AP Player of the Year (2007)[2]
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2007)
• 2× First-team All-American (2007, 2008)
• Second-team All-American (2009)
• 3× First-team All-SEC (2007–2009)

1st round draft pick, starting NFL QB, playoff QB, 12 rushing TDs, etc.
And now professional baseball player.


Interesting...when other QBs fail in the NFL, why aren't they labeled selfish or stubborn for "doggedly persuing their grand dream".......just Tebow.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Such prejudice towards the guy says plenty....about the bloviators making such ignorant statements.

Edit: Tim Tebow is playing the lowest level of pro -baseball...therefore he "can't live without the spotlight on him".
Tony Romo is reportedly going for his PGA tour card this year. Will he be pinned with the same "can't live without the spotlight" label....or is this label exclusive for Tebow?

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I'm honestly surprised I didn't have you on ignore.

Anyway, that's a lot of *****ing. Try decaf.

patchick said:

I wish nothing but good for Mr. Tebow, but I'm always surprised by sentiments like this. We're talking about a man who decided he'd rather have the cameras on him as a talking head rather than accept playing any position other than quarterback. He's always struck me as an individual struggling with "post-quarterback syndrome" -- having a hard time adjusting to being a guy, not The Guy.

Click to expand...

We played Denver in a regular season game when Tebow was starting Qb. at one stage late in the game we sacked him for like minus 27 yards. never realising when the game was up. Always struck me that pride was an obstacle for him. that was just one example of it.
I appreciate that a lot of people think he's great and all that. Seems a nice fella. but...

borg said:

So many issues with this drivel. First off, when did the Edelmans of the NFL give up their QB dreams? About 5 minutes after their last collegiate game. Reason....the league would never give 'em a sniff as a QB....let alone draft them as a 1st round QB like Tebow. Should Tebow not have taken the "selfish" path of trying to succeed at the position he was drafted? Is Tebow the only player labeled "stubborn" for daring to play the position he was drafted for? How dare he!
Next foolishness.....the narrative that Tebow could step in as an NFL TE....based on ...who the f*%k knows. And how many NFL QBs have transitioned into other positions years into their pro career? But Tebow is "selfish" for not taking the path NEVER taken because he is "stubborn".
Brilliant stuff

The "not much of an athlete" has a somewhat impressive resume despite the ignorance of some.

• 2× BCS national champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC champion (2006, 2008)
• 2× SEC Player of the Year (2008, 2009)
• Manning Award (2008)
• 2× Maxwell Award (2007, 2008)
• Heisman Trophy (2007)
• Davey O'Brien Award (2007)[1]
• AP Player of the Year (2007)[2]
• Sporting News Player of the Year (2007)
• 2× First-team All-American (2007, 2008)
• Second-team All-American (2009)
• 3× First-team All-SEC (2007–2009)

1st round draft pick, starting NFL QB, playoff QB, 12 rushing TDs, etc.
And now professional baseball player?

Click to expand...

I never said he wasn't much of an athlete. I said he is a brand much more than he is an athlete.

Which is a true statement.