Both Jimmy & Butler to stay Pat

supafly said:

Something no one has mentioned yet to my knowledge, but since the tag/trade idea would lessen the trade value due to the high cost of the franchise tag, is it possible to make him more attractive to other potential suitors by simply extending him first?

Obviously, we'd be opening up a whole new can of worms in terms of discussion with the ins/outs of that kind of situation, but it's a possibility that I've been considering, lately. In the interest of all parties, it would likely have to be a short term deal of only 1-2 yrs in the vein of Osweiler's pact, but it could help to lessen the sting of losing some trade value.

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I'm not sure it would make a difference as the new team would know/assume it would get a long term deal done. The tag would just be a placeholder but it would lower his value as there would be the perception (perhaps reality) that we'd have to trade him.

BelichickFan said:

I'm not sure it would make a difference as the new team would know/assume it would get a long term deal done. The tag would just be a placeholder but it would lower his value as there would be the perception (perhaps reality) that we'd have to trade him.

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So, just to clarify, if NE places the tag on him, the new team wouldn't necessarily be stuck with a 24m dollar cap hit cost for 2017? The only reason I need clarification is the idea of making him the highest paid player in the game (AAV for '18, obviously) would seem to have the potential to send some interested parties looking elsewhere.

supafly said:

Fourier--chill, bud. I think this may be the first time I've ever seen someone attempt to move their pissing match to another thread. Holy ****. I had to go back and make sure I wasn't seeing things. For whatever it may be worth to you, I highly doubt that Kontra reported you. You gained the attention of the moderators, that's all. Relax.

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You have to admit this is pretty funny though. This is something a scorned woman would do. Why would I have to report him when I can just keep unloading salvos and watch this train wreck?

KontradictioN said:

You have to admit this is pretty funny though. This is something a scorned woman would do.

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I've had my share of bad experiences, man. I can relate.

supafly said:

I've had my share of bad experiences, man. I can relate.

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Oh of course. Everyone gets their asses handed to them from time to time. You're right though that I've never seen it moved to another thread. I don't know if I should be complimented or creeped out.

supafly said:

So, just to clarify, if NE places the tag on him, the new team wouldn't necessarily be stuck with a 24m dollar cap hit cost for 2017? The only reason I need clarification is the idea of making him the highest paid player in the game (AAV for '18, obviously) would seem to have the potential to send some interested parties looking elsewhere.

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It would be the same as Cassel. We'd have to Franchise him. Both we and the acquiring team would have to have the cap space for the Franchise number. The new team would have permission to agree to a new deal, we'd agree to a trade and he would be traded as a Franchised player (the reason the new team needs the cap space) then the new team could, almost immediately, do the new deal to get his cap number for 2018 down and lock him up long term.

The Patriots doing the deal first would mean no signing bonus (like the unusual Osweiller deal), or that would hit our cap when traded and that's the usual mechanism for the player getting an immediate windfall while keeping the cap number down for the first year or two or three.

supafly said:

Fourier--chill, bud. I think this may be the first time I've ever seen someone attempt to move their pissing match to another thread. Holy ****. I had to go back and make sure I wasn't seeing things. For whatever it may be worth to you, I highly doubt that Kontra reported you. You gained the attention of the moderators, that's all. Relax.

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Nonsense! This forum has become a goldmine since 2015. This has easily been the best part of this forum for a couple of years. Trolling the forums of opposing teams has become stale.

Kontra is the last person I expected to engage me for this long, given the fact that he claims to have done the same on other team's forums, and should have known better.

FourierSeries said:

Nonsense! This forum has become a goldmine since 2015. This has easily been the best part of this forum for a couple of years. Trolling the forums of opposing teams has become stale.

Kontra is the last person I expected to engage me for this long, given the fact that he claims to have done the same on other team's forums, and should have known better.

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Answer the question so I can finish picking apart that mega embarrassing display you just posted before.

KontradictioN said:

Answer the question.

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NE has the most athletic LBs in the history of the NFL.

ATL's RBs were the worst duo in the history of the league.

supafly said:

Something no one has mentioned yet to my knowledge, but since the tag/trade idea would lessen the trade value due to the high cost of the franchise tag, is it possible to make him more attractive to other potential suitors by simply extending him first?

Obviously, we'd be opening up a whole new can of worms in terms of discussion with the ins/outs of that kind of situation, but it's a possibility that I've been considering, lately. In the interest of all parties, it would likely have to be a short term deal of only 1-2 yrs in the vein of Osweiler's pact, but it could help to lessen the sting of losing some trade value.

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IMhO NO!!!
1. Nyjfl rules prohibit teams from renegotiating a contract twice in one league year. So that means any extension has to be good enough to not exclude any of the possible suitors, who may all have greatly varying cap flexibility over the years of the extension. Hard to do.
2. You have to get JAG to agree. JAG and his agent would be insane to do this, the acquiring team would be much more motivated to (over) pay then the Pats would be. Also, Theoretically, the Pats could just then keep him on the bench after they negotiated giving him impression he would be starting for someone else. either way you have to have 2 to tango, and jag ain't dancin.

BelichickFan said:

It would be the same as Cassel. We'd have to Franchise him. Both we and the acquiring team would have to have the cap space for the Franchise number. The new team would have permission to agree to a new deal, we'd agree to a trade and he would be traded as a Franchised player (the reason the new team needs the cap space) then the new team could, almost immediately, do the new deal to get his cap number for 2018 down and lock him up long term.
. . .

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Not entirely sure the acquiring team has to have the cap space in ALL CASES. In at least one instance in the past IIRC a team filed the renegotiated contract/extension simultaneous with the trade filing and didn't get hit with the franchise tag cap hit. Of course if they can't work it out with JAG ahead of time, rules have changed since back then, or I am recalling prev example wrong then they do need the cap room.

Still don't get why everyone is so eager to trade Jimmy G. Like it or not, Tom Brady isn't getting any younger. At some point you've gotta start thinking about the QB transition.

KamikazeKnight said:

Still don't get why everyone is so eager to trade Jimmy G. Like it or not, Tom Brady isn't getting any younger. At some point you've gotta start thinking about the QB transition.

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Jimmy G isn't getting any younger either. None of us are .

supafly said:

Something no one has mentioned yet to my knowledge, but since the tag/trade idea would lessen the trade value due to the high cost of the franchise tag, is it possible to make him more attractive to other potential suitors by simply extending him first?

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While I suppose having an extension in place increases his trade value, I'd be interested in your reasoning behind why, in the name of all that is good on God's Green Earth, would Garoppolo ever sign an extension with New England???

XLIX said:

While I suppose having an extension in place increases his trade value, I'd be interested in your reasoning behind why, in the name of all that is good on God's Green Earth, would Garoppolo ever sign an extension with New England???

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Garoppolo could theoretically sign an extension here if he's believed to take over the starting job in a year or two--for starters, but my question was asking BelichickFan about the specifics of a tag/trade.

I'm not sure why people assume that guys like AJ McCarron or Jimmy Garoppolo are somehow instantly going to set the market on QB pay? The example of Osweiler and his 18m dollar AAV was certainly reasonable, particularly if it could help facilitate a trade with another party where he'd likely be the starter.

Either way, the question has already been answered, and no matter what there will likely be a placeholder of sorts, whether that's via the tag or otherwise.

BelichickFan said:

What the Pats keeping Jimmy Garoppolo means.

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As we know, Kraft has always had a franchise QB since taking over the team in '94, so the idea of a transition does make some sense if they can actually figure out how to pull it off.

Some statements from the article that I take issue with: 1) Brady is playing for his job this year. 2) Keeping Garoppolo for '17 definitely means that he will be the heir apparent. 3) Brady would play elsewhere to finish his career.

Those three ideas may be in play, as they all go hand in hand, but as a NE fan, it's difficult to try and wrap my head around it. Personally, I think it's much more likely that Belichick is simply taking another year to assess the situation.

I'm was in the keep Jimmy G from the start, but I'd like to know how does next's year draft QB looks likes, cause that would change his market value.

supafly said:

As we know, Kraft has always had a franchise QB since taking over the team in '94, so the idea of a transition does make some sense if they can actually figure out how to pull it off.

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I've pretty much decided that they know how hard it is to find a QB so with a 40 year old they want to keep the kid just in case. If they don't need him they can figure out what to do later but by keeping him they guarantee they'll have a QB they like going forward 12 months from now. The rest will work itself out.

patsfanboy said:

I'm was in the keep Jimmy G from the start, but I'd like to know how does next's year draft QB looks likes, cause that would change his market value.

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Next year's QB draft is stronger. That could change but as of now it's definitely stronger. I don't think this is about maximizing his value though.

supafly said:

Garoppolo could theoretically sign an extension here if he's believed to take over the starting job in a year or two--for starters, but my question was asking BelichickFan about the specifics of a tag/trade.

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There is zero chance whatsoever Garoppolo signs an extension here as long as Tom Brady is still with the team.

supafly said:

I'm not sure why people assume that guys like AJ McCarron or Jimmy Garoppolo are somehow instantly going to set the market on QB pay? The example of Osweiler and his 18m dollar AAV was certainly reasonable, particularly if it could help facilitate a trade with another party where he'd likely be the starter.

Either way, the question has already been answered, and no matter what there will likely be a placeholder of sorts, whether that's via the tag or otherwise.

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Franchising him is reasonably possible the way it was done with Cassel, primarily because he has no choice in the matter, although I think such a move is very dangerous.

Getting him to sign some sort of extension with the Patriots is not even remotely within the realm of possibility.