Butler visiting Saints

Honestly, it's a pretty deep draft. I'd almost be willing to take two 2nds instead of #32... Corner would surely be weakened but if Hightower is re-signed then the picks can be used to help beef up the D in other areas. Gilmore and Rowe will be fine at CB, it's a question of who is the third corner. Jones 1? Jones 2? Coleman?

Froob said:

Somebody claimed Butler was ready to show up and play if he isn't traded. He's been a pro all the time he's here, I'd believe him.

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he has made a total of 1.5 million from football alone since being a UDFA so 4 million in one year and still be a FA next year at 28. 100% he would play he wont be happy but he will play and give his all.

but saints want him bad and next year stephon gilmore is the #1 so this maybe his only shot at getting over 10 million per, i will say this it would suck if he signs with the saints for 10 or less and pats only get a 2nd for him with all the money they have to spend

Mack Herron said:

It isn't crystal clear to be sure. But what you describe is what we did with Welker and irrespective of whatever consideration was exchanged. I'm not claiming any expertise, but it seems Butler is negotiating a contract with NO and people like Reiss and Florio agree that a trade can be negotiated. We will all see soon enough I suspect.

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Why would the New England Patriots negotiate a trade? If Malcolm Butler signs an offer sheet and the New England Patriots refuse to match, the New Orleans Saints organization is obligated to cough up the 11th overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.

ATippett56 said:

Why would the New England Patriots negotiate a trade? If Malcolm Butler signs an offer sheet and the New England Patriots refuse to match, the New Orleans Saints organization is obligated to cough up the 11th overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.

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Because NO isn't going to give up #11 to acquire a player they only control for one year. Thus, they aren't giving Butler any offer sheet.

The question is how does Belichick weigh a year of Butler and then losing him for nothing after that vs. having the #32 pick but no Butler. The #11 doesn't figure into it because that's not on the table.

patsfan-1982 said:

i think if saints were offering #11 he would have been traded alredy its more like a 2nd and if it goes down like that and i hope it dose not its almost even Cooks for butler.

only saints will have to pay butler 12+ million pats will let cooks play out his rookie contract and go from there

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I agree, no way SP gives up #11 for Butler when the draft is so deep for D players. I really think this is tied to the Cooks deal. Thats the only thing that makes sence because Butler was part of that deal as some piont, and the deal took a day longer than it should have.
Maybe because the agents had to be involed to agree on the final contracts.
BB could want another one of our players, like Mark Ingram or someone else. Saints could make an offer that BB knows about for 11-12 mil for Butler, which the Pats will not cover. Butler has already agreed. So butler signs and we give BB #11 pick.
Then BB offers #11 pick back for Ingram or some other player and Saints agree.
Sounds crazy but BB is wicked smart , so its hard for me to think he doesnt already know where this is going.

pherein said:

I agree, no way SP gives up #11 for Butler when the draft is so deep for D players. I really think this is tied to the Cooks deal. Thats the only thing that makes sence because Butler was part of that deal as some piont, and the deal took a day longer than it should have.
Maybe because the agents had to be involed to agree on the final contracts.
BB could want another one of our players, like Mark Ingram or someone else. Saint could make an offer that BB knows about for 11-12 mil, which the Pats will not cover. Butler has already agreed. So butler signs and we give BB #11 pick.
Then BB offers #11 pick back for Ingram or some other player and Saints agree.
Sounds crazy but BB is wicked smart , so its hard for me to think he doesnt already know where this is going.

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Oh boy. Now this has all the makings of bad stuff!

QuantumMechanic said:

Because NO isn't going to give up #11 to acquire a player they only control for one year. Thus, they aren't giving Butler any offer sheet.

The question is how does Belichick weigh a year of Butler and then losing him for nothing after that vs. having the #32 pick but no Butler. The #11 doesn't figure into it because that's not on the table.

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The New England Patriots own the rights to Malcolm Butler not the New Orleans Saints. It does not matter what the New Orleans Saints offer since Malcolm Butler is under the control of the New England Patriots.

As for your other comment, the New England Patriots survived the loss of Darrelle Revis and Brandon Browner.

FoxboroFlyer said:

Oh boy. Now this has all the makings of bad stuff!

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sound crazy ?

pherein said:

sound crazy ?

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Sounds like both clubs would be crucified!

FoxboroFlyer said:

Sounds like both clubs would be crucified!

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Yeah but they are following the rules lol, not that Godell cares

pherein said:

Yeah but they are following the rules lol, not that Godell cares

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Exactly!
That would certainly end poorly, as the two franchises he screwed over most would be making him look like the fool he is.

QuantumMechanic said:

Because NO isn't going to give up #11 to acquire a player they only control for one year. Thus, they aren't giving Butler any offer sheet.

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In which case Butler plays here in 2017 for $3.91m (or $660K if Super Agent Jim Sokolove keeps giving him such fantastic advice).

This idea that Butler is going to hold out and dog it is asinine. Those things won't be helping his market value.

FoxboroFlyer said:

Exactly!
That would certainly end poorly, as the two franchises he screwed over most would be making him look like the fool he is.

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lol yeah I kind of like that. I think it does work though if I even know what the hell im talking about.

Only chance we have at this point is to hope the contract negotiations with the Saints breakdown they same way the did with NE. I hope Butler brings his agent to NO.

That's probably wishful thinking at this point, Butler seems as good as gone for a 2nd/3rd round pick.

QuantumMechanic said:

Because NO isn't going to give up #11 to acquire a player they only control for one year. Thus, they aren't giving Butler any offer sheet.

The question is how does Belichick weigh a year of Butler and then losing him for nothing after that vs. having the #32 pick but no Butler. The #11 doesn't figure into it because that's not on the table.

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I don't think you know how the offer sheet works.

It's a contract. If the Saints give him a 4 years, $45mill offer sheet and he signs it(and the Patriots decline to match), the Saints then get him at those terms. Not one year.

The offer sheet IS the way to get him signed for more than one year.

TommyD4207 said:

In which case Butler plays here in 2017 for $3.91m (or $660K if Super Agent Jim Sokolove keeps giving him such fantastic advice).

This idea that Butler is going to hold out and dog it is asinine. Those things won't be helping his market value.

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That's why i rather keep him. He's not gonna sit out. He has to play.

ATippett56 said:

The New England Patriots own the rights to Malcolm Butler not the New Orleans Saints. It does not matter what the New Orleans Saints offer since Malcolm Butler is under the control of the New England Patriots.

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No duh.

But the point remains, if NO is forced to resort to an offer sheet to get Butler they won't be getting Butler and NE won't be getting the #11 because NO won't be giving Butler that offer sheet.

However, Belichick may well feel that getting the #32 for Butler is better for the team than losing Butler for nothing after a year and so might go the trade route.

So it's not nearly as simple as your "if NO wants Butler they will have to give the #11 for it because NE controls his rights".

pherein said:

lol yeah I kind of like that. I think it does work though if I even know what the hell im talking about.

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Lol! Honestly, I could see the deal going down for Butler the exact same way Peter King mentioned earlier. A 2nd and 3rd for Butler.
None of the picks involved in the Cooks deal involved.

Rdforty2 said:

I don't think you know how the offer sheet works.

It's a contract. If the Saints give him a 4 years, $45mill offer sheet and he signs it(and the Patriots decline to match), the Saints then get him at those terms. Not one year.

The offer sheet IS the way to get him signed for more than one year.

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If the Saints give him an offer sheet for 4/45, it's better than 50/50 he'll be playing for the Patriots.

TommyD4207 said:

If the Saints give him an offer sheet for 4/45, it's better than 50/50 he'll be playing for the Patriots.

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Try 99.99999/.00001 hes gone.

Bill will take the #11 and the cap space for Malcolm and run.