Patriots trade for WR Brandin Cooks (NO BUTLER INVOLVED). Gave up 1st & 3rd rounder for Cooks + 4th

PatsDeb · Mar 13, 2017

Bobs My Uncle said:
I am not sure what is not to like with a guy who is just 23 years old, who can play all of our WR spots, who has speed and quickness unlike anything we have seen at the WR spot in quite some time and who has already proven himself to be an excellent NFL player.

Yeah, I was wondering why we wanted this guy so bad, and then I saw him outrunning everybody on the highlights. Looking forward to seeing him on the field with TFB.

BelichickFan · Mar 13, 2017

Bobs My Uncle said:
I am not sure what is not to like with a guy who is just 23 years old, who can play all of our WR spots, who has speed and quickness unlike anything we have seen at the WR spot in quite some time and who has already proven himself to be an excellent NFL player.

Because if you like skill players you don't understand football and are just a fantasy football pretender

patfanken · Mar 13, 2017

Bobs My Uncle said:
I am not sure what is not to like with a guy who is just 23 years old, who can play all of our WR spots, who has speed and quickness unlike anything we have seen at the WR spot in quite some time and who has already proven himself to be an excellent NFL player.

His age is irrelevant if he's only going to be here for the next 2 years, or do you think BB will do something that he hasn't done in 17+ seasons and pay top dollar (over $15MM/yr) to a WR.

The last time he was faced with that situation he passed on Branch. Seattle (who was "only a wr away") didn't and paid him top dollar. I think Seattle would like to have that one back.

TheRazorsEdge · Mar 13, 2017

I just don't get it. For years all I heard is, "why don't we give Brady the best weapons as he ages to help him out?.."

Go after Cooks agressively and land him and now it's
"Wait.. Hold on... I don't know about this".

Sheesh .

BelichickFan · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
His age is irrelevant if he's only going to be here for the next 2 years, or do you think BB will do something that he hasn't done in 17+ seasons and pay top dollar (over $15MM/yr) to a WR.

Who knows what he'll do. This time last week you could have asked the same question about trading our #1 for a veteran WR. Or signing the highest paid CB of this FA period.

Bobs My Uncle · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
His age is irrelevant if he's only going to be here for the next 2 years, or do you think BB will do something that he hasn't done in 17+ seasons and pay top dollar (over $15MM/yr) to a WR.

The last time he was faced with that situation he passed on Branch. Seattle (who was "only a wr away") didn't and paid him top dollar. I think Seattle would like to have that one back.

His age is relevant because it may well be that, as he ages and gains more experience, he'll be even better than he has already demonstrated.

I am not one to predict what BB might, or might not, do in the future but, if it turns out that Cooks is only here for 2 years, and his play contributes to this team hoisting another Lombardi, I am perfectly fine with that outcome.

BelichickFan · Mar 13, 2017

Bobs My Uncle said:
His age is relevant because it may well be that, as he ages and gains more experience, he'll be even better than he has already demonstrated.

Yes, the fact that he has 3 years experience, is one of the best WR in the league and is several years before any kind of predictable physical decline is a good thing.

patfanken · Mar 13, 2017

Bobs My Uncle said:
His age is relevant because it may well be that, as he ages and gains more experience, he'll be even better than he has already demonstrated.

I am not one to predict what BB might, or might not, do in the future but, if it turns out that Cooks is only here for 2 years, and his play contributes to this team hoisting another Lombardi, I am perfectly fine with that outcome.

and so would everyone else. I'm just saying, the only time his age is relevant to US, is if he winds up still here when he's 3o. OR whether he's going to be a top FA pick up with 5 years of experience and only 25 years old

BelichickFan · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
and so would everyone else. I'm just saying, the only time his age is relevant to US, is if he winds up still here when he's 3o. OR whether he's going to be a top FA pick up with 5 years of experience and only 25 years old

It means he's young which could help in several ways :

- He's still getting better now. N-O-W when he's on the Patriots.
- In two years, if we're moving on we could potentially Franchise and Trade him as a 25 year old which is good for his value.
- If BB & TB like him, extending him at a high price is far more realistic as a 25 year old than, say, a 30 year old.

qbno12 · Mar 13, 2017

It may be a stupid question, but does this mean Michael Floyd is gone ?

Tony2046 · Mar 13, 2017

qbno12 said:
It may be a stupid question, but does this mean Michael Floyd is gone ?

If the decision comes down to either Floyd or Amendola I think Floyd is gone.

But then again I could have never predicted any of the decisions made last week either.

qbno12 · Mar 13, 2017

Tony2046 said:
If the decision comes down to either Floyd or Amendola I think Floyd is gone.

But then again I could have never predicted any of the decisions made last week either.

Is it a matter of Dola restructuring ? I'd hate to lose Amendola but Floyd is a beast as well although very little experience in our system. Would be interesting to see what happens.
Running 5 WR sets with Edelman, Hogan, Mitchell, Cooks and Dola/Floyd would be insane

Tony2046 · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
Listen, if you had comprehended the point of my posts you would have decerned that my concerns were NOT about the player. I've acknowledged several times that adding the PLAYER is a good thing, though how much of a good thing is in question. But more on that later.

My major complaint and really the only one is whether the addition of Cooks is worth the assets you gave up for what is likely a 2 year rental. Did the offense get THAT much better vs the potential loss of that first round pick to the defense. We had the 2nd best offense in the league last season. How much better can it get? If it averages over 36-40 ppg and Cooks is a significant contributor, then I will stand corrected. But if it only averages a couple of points better, even if Cooks puts up numbers then I will be vindicated, especially if the defense is worse.

Then we have the other questions that can only be answered on the field next fall. Will he be a distraction when he isn't a focus of offense that week? Can he run the inside routes that are featured in THIS offense? Can he make someone miss for YAC (something I haven't seen in his highlight reels)? And a big one, what will happen to him when the weather turns bad?

These are all legitimate questions that I'm sure you will want answered as well. Hopefully they will be answered positively, but at this point all we can do is ask them and hope for the best.

Perhaps my concern about giving up our glorified 2nd round pick has been exacerbated by that fact that if the draft order stands now, the Pats will have nothing to show for their first round selections in 3 out of the last 4 drafts (Easley, MBrown, Goodell, and traded). EVENTUALLY that is going to take its toll, especially when you are drafting at the end of the round every year.

BTW- I have overall faith in BB, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he does. I've often been accused of being a homer. BB essentially traded our first round pick for a WR. That is something he's never done before in 17 years and something I never thought he woud do. ESPECIALLY for a guy who is likely a 2 year rental.

My feelings about WR's in general have been made plain over the years, and certainly they've been backed up by the WR corps we've won the last 2 superbowls with.

At any rate, I'm glad you enjoyed your nap, and I hope I've made my position clearer to you

Adding Cooks is a potential game changer in that he will force defenses to shift coverages. Does his speed and deep ball threat open up other routes? Sure it does. Anyways I think it's a definite positive for the offense. I don't think your argument of how much more can his addition add to an already elite offense works because I think his addition makes it that much more difficult for any defense to stop the offense i.e. Denver or Atlanta.

But I do agree with you about this signing possibly disrupting the drafting process which has been an important ingredient that has kept this team on top for so many years. I wonder if your argument, which very valid imo, indicates that JG is actually gone.

Good stuff ken.

Raymond · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
and so would everyone else. I'm just saying, the only time his age is relevant to US, is if he winds up still here when he's 3o. OR whether he's going to be a top FA pick up with 5 years of experience and only 25 years old

Well, Bill got a real good look at him twice in camp with the Saints here. There must be a real good reason he wants him.

And I would gladly give up a 1st every year for a player that produces another ring.

Tony2046 · Mar 13, 2017

Soul_Survivor88 said:
BLAST from the past (2014)

perhaps this is why Cooks felt he wasn't being used to his full potential in NOLA

I think losing was more of a factor than how he was being used.

NG Pats Fan · Mar 13, 2017

WR1 Brandin Cooks
WR2 Julian Edelman
WR3 Chris Hogan
WR4 Malcolm Mitchell
WR5 Michael Floyd/Danny Amendola

TE1 Rob Gronkowski
TE2 Dwayne Allen

God Help Defenses

BradyFTW! · Mar 13, 2017

patfanken said:
My major complaint and really the only one is whether the addition of Cooks is worth the assets you gave up for what is likely a 2 year rental. Did the offense get THAT much better vs the potential loss of that first round pick to the defense. We had the 2nd best offense in the league last season. How much better can it get? If it averages over 36-40 ppg and Cooks is a significant contributor, then I will stand corrected. But if it only averages a couple of points better, even if Cooks puts up numbers then I will be vindicated, especially if the defense is worse.

FWIW, I really don't like this line of reasoning. You can always improve, and if you have a chance to do it then you should. Just because the offense was already one of the best in the league doesn't mean it can't get better and more versatile.

Then we have the other questions that can only be answered on the field next fall. Will he be a distraction when he isn't a focus of offense that week? Can he run the inside routes that are featured in THIS offense? Can he make someone miss for YAC (something I haven't seen in his highlight reels)? And a big one, what will happen to him when the weather turns bad?

I think it can be confidently stated that he'll be fine on all accounts. He excels at running inside routes and using his agility to get open. He's always been good at that, with the physical attributes that make a great, shifty inside receiver: good hands, good 3 cone, great 10 yard split, phenomenal shuttle and short shuttle times. By just about every measure he's quicker and more agile than Amendola was even before his injuries.

These are all legitimate questions that I'm sure you will want answered as well. Hopefully they will be answered positively, but at this point all we can do is ask them and hope for the best.

I agree up to a point, but this being the offseason and all there's also a third option of learning more about Cooks. I strongly recommend that anyone with any doubts about the guy we're getting read this Grantland article from a couple years ago: The Big Promise of Brandin Cooks. This is the kind of guy we want on the Patriots. He will fit right in here, from day one. I'd like to think I'm not prone to hyperbole, and I don't say this lightly, but I strongly believe he'll be a better, younger, more versatile version of Edelman, and that he'll be fully integrated into the offense and ready to go well before week 1. If you read that article, it gives a number of anecdotes and quotes demonstrating why every coach he's played for loves him and why he'll fit in perfectly with our team culture.

Perhaps my concern about giving up our glorified 2nd round pick has been exacerbated by that fact that if the draft order stands now, the Pats will have nothing to show for their first round selections in 3 out of the last 4 drafts (Easley, MBrown, Goodell, and traded). EVENTUALLY that is going to take its toll, especially when you are drafting at the end of the round every year.

I do agree here, that's a major concern. Our 2012 draft class is gone with exception of Hightower, and 2013 is gone with the exception of Harmon. 2014 is looking like pretty much a bust of a year, barring a huge trade return for Garoppolo, and while 2015 and 2016 have promise, Malcom Brown hasn't developed anywhere near like I hoped he would. I've got high hopes for Flowers, Mason, Mitchell, Valentine, Jones, etc., but the talent pipeline of cheap, rookie contract talent is looking a lot barer right now than it has at any point since 2009. I like Cooks enough that I'm happy with the trade anyway, though.

chris_in_sunnyvale · Mar 13, 2017

I would figure Denver is going to bounce back this year after just missing out on the postseason last year with no RB and shaky QB play. Maybe they get Romo. Who knows? I can't imagine Elway keeping status quo.

To me, Denver's pass D is the biggest roadblock to SB52 should the teams meet in January. Getting Cooks went a long way towards helping the Pats overcome that obstacle.

Regards,
Chris

Oswlek · Mar 13, 2017

I get where you are coming from, Ken. This trade definitely goes against Belichick precedent. That said, a lot of your arguments aren't as strong as you seem to think they are.

patfanken said:
We had the 2nd best offense in the league last season. How much better can it get?

This has already been explained. It's not about how much you score, it is about making the offense more match up proof.

patfanken said:
Then we have the other questions that can only be answered on the field next fall. Will he be a distraction when he isn't a focus of offense that week? Can he run the inside routes that are featured in THIS offense? Can he make someone miss for YAC (something I haven't seen in his highlight reels)? And a big one, what will happen to him when the weather turns bad?

Some of these questions are legitimate, some are not. The inside route is a resounding, "yes!" and, to my knowledge, a part of what he's been complaining about. He most certainly make people miss and the question about weather isn't all that big. Even if he's shown a propensity to struggle in the past, that was as a visiting player acclimated to a tamer environment. Simply by virtue of being in this area you'd expect that to improve.

patfanken said:
Pats will have nothing to show for their first round selections in 3 out of the last 4 drafts (Easley, MBrown, Goodell, and traded). EVENTUALLY that is going to take its toll

It will only take its toll if NE stops getting 2-3 potential starters per draft, which they've consistently done over the last four drafts, even if you exclude Brown. It is also unfair to "penalize" NE for lacking a first rounder this year without acknowledging Cooks' potential contributions.

patfanken said:
His age is irrelevant if he's only going to be here for the next 2 years, or do you think BB will do something that he hasn't done in 17+ seasons and pay top dollar (over $15MM/yr) to a WR.

I'd say it is a safe bet that NE views him as worthy of signing and even potentially tagging, otherwise they wouldn't have made this trade.

patfanken said:
The last time he was faced with that situation he passed on Branch.

This is a misrepresentation of Branch's 2006 exit. They most certainly did not "pass" on Branch; to the contrary, they were willing to match Seattle's offer, but bridges had been burned at that point. Moss' contract extension probably deserves mention here as well.

pherein · Mar 13, 2017

Tony2046 said:
I think losing was more of a factor than how he was being used.

Yeah see this is how I think most Saints fans see it. Cooks loved the offense and Brees and SP have a great relationship, but when you consistanly get better and excell, and D is blowing games you get very frustrated if a winner. I see Cooks as very driven.
A good break down of Cooks I saw from an eagles fan.

Brandin Cooks Film Study: Why the Eagles should trade a first-round pick to the Saints

Kind of shows what we saw and that at such a young age he has abilities that usually takes longer to develop. Cooks has a thing in his gut, you can see it, and does not like to lose as a team. Even if he gets 3 TD's and 300 yrds. It pisses him off. 7-9 did not made Cooks happy even if he got the ball and had a pro game.
I also wonder that if Cooks produces as he did in LA on Turf with 1000-1500 seasons wont that actually reduce other WR's agents bidding war for cash ? When they are not #1 on the team anymore. And personally sense Cooks has never made the big paycheck, Im assuming a 2 year deal, after his 2 years are over, for say 7-8 Mill might workout, if his agent isnt and idiot. I dont know much about it, but that is what I would look for. I dont see Cooks going for 17 mill payday especially if he is in a winning environment, hes not built that way. It wouldnt suprise me if Cooks asked to be traded to the Pats actually.

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