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Did Malcolm Butler ask for the moon?


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K. Dog

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I've seen a lot of speculation in different threads and in the media that if the Patriots had simply made Butler a reasonable offer, say one on par with what other cornerbacks get, then he would have taken it and the Patriots would not be in the current ill-defined situation with Butler.

To support their view, people typically cite Butler's agent, Derek Simpson, who stated: "anything that says [Butler] keeps asking for the moon is completely false", at Malcolm Butler’s Agent Gives Update, Denies CB Is ‘Asking For The Moon’ . Simpson's denial was in response to a column by Michael Lombardi in The Ringer, Why NFL Teams Shelled Out Millions for the Biggest Free Agents , where Lombardi writes that Butler was "looking for the moon and then some."

Who's correct here, Lombardi or Simpson?

Lombardi of course is fairly well-known, an ex-Patriots assistant coach.

Derek Simpson is a partner at Warren & Simpson, PC, a small litigation firm in Alabama. According to that firm's main page, Our Attorneys - Warren & Simpson, PC , Simpson's law practice "concentrates on automobile wrecks, construction accidents, trucking litigation, workers' compensation, products liability and premises liability". That page also states Simpson represents "several players in the NFL". According to that page, Simpson "was inducted into the National Trial Lawyers, Top 100" in 2011 and is president of the Madison County Bar Association.

Simpson's page at martindale lists his practice areas in more detail: Derek W. Simpson Lawyer Profile on Martindale.com , and they include personal injury, truck accidents, workers compensation, criminal law, automobile accidents, products liability and retaliatory discharge. Player representation is not one of the practice areas included at the martindale site.

Therefore, as background, all the information I've looked at it suggests that Simpson is a skilled and well-respected trial attorney, specializing in adversarial litigation in the areas named.

Obviously, we don't know from the publicly available information whether Lombardi or Simpson or correct about the "moon" situation. One possibility is that Simpson believes his client is not asking for the moon, and the Patriots don't believe that. But the situation here, like Malcolm Butler's story itself, is unusual. I hope it ends well for Malcolm and for the Patriots; their interests align in many ways.
 
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No disrespect, but don't we have two threads in Butler going already? This topic, in particular, has been discussed in each of them.
 
the pats can have him play for 4 million this year that's about all there is to the story. they will deal with paying or not paying him 10+ million next year
 
Sounds like Patriots spin to be honest, i don't believe for a second Malcolm Butler turns down the contract Gilmore got, anyone who thinks he would is drinking some serious Pats Kool Aid.

Kid has made peanuts so far you think he turns down anywhere near 40m GTD?

I think you could of got Butler to sign for less than that, i think the Pats are just trying to control the story in case they trade him or he holds out.
 
Sounds like Patriots spin to be honest, i don't believe for a second Malcolm Butler turns down the contract Gilmore got, anyone who thinks he would is drinking some serious Pats Kool Aid.

Kid has made peanuts so far you think he turns down anywhere near 40m GTD?

I think you could of got Butler to sign for less than that, i think the Pats are just trying to control the story in case they trade him or he holds out.
Butler would never be offered Gilmore's contract. Any Butler/Patriots package would include his cost controlled 2017 RFA tender price....no more. Gilmore is receiving compensation based on 5 unrestricted years.
Furthermore.....it has been reported that Butler's agent requested NE forfeit their 2017 RFA control over Butler....hence the statement..."asking for the moon."

Butler's agent's two likely motives:
1) See if BB blinks. (he didn't......BB went shopping instead)
2) Expedite Butler's exit from NE to a team willing to relinquish the leverage they would possess if Butler's rights were traded.

Butler, his agent, and the football world know what Belichick values....a focused player in a single objective locker room. How likely will Bill keep Butler on the roster this year with no new contract when the conversation next year would be...will NE franchise Butler.
 
I've seen a lot of speculation in different threads and in the media that if the Patriots had simply made Butler a reasonable offer, say one on par with what other cornerbacks get, then he would have taken it and the Patriots would not be in the current ill-defined situation with Butler.

To support their view, people typically cite Butler's agent, Derek Simpson, who stated: "anything that says [Butler] keeps asking for the moon is completely false", at Malcolm Butler’s Agent Gives Update, Denies CB Is ‘Asking For The Moon’ . Simpson's denial was in response to a column by Michael Lombardi in The Ringer, Why NFL Teams Shelled Out Millions for the Biggest Free Agents , where Lombardi writes that Butler was "looking for the moon and then some."

Who's correct here, Lombardi or Simpson?

Lombardi of course is fairly well-known, an ex-Patriots assistant coach.

Derek Simpson is a partner at Warren & Simpson, PC, a small litigation firm in Alabama. According to that firm's main page, Our Attorneys - Warren & Simpson, PC , Simpson's law practice "concentrates on automobile wrecks, construction accidents, trucking litigation, workers' compensation, products liability and premises liability". That page also states Simpson represents "several players in the NFL". According to that page, Simpson "was inducted into the National Trial Lawyers, Top 100" in 2011 and is president of the Madison County Bar Association.

Simpson's page at martindale lists his practice areas in more detail: Derek W. Simpson Lawyer Profile on Martindale.com , and they include personal injury, truck accidents, workers compensation, criminal law, automobile accidents, products liability and retaliatory discharge. Player representation is not one of the practice areas included at the martindale site.

Therefore, as background, all the information I've looked at it suggests that Simpson is a skilled and well-respected trial attorney, specializing in adversarial litigation in the areas named.

Obviously, we don't know from the publicly available information whether Lombardi or Simpson or correct about the "moon" situation. One possibility is that Simpson believes his client is not asking for the moon, and the Patriots don't believe that. But the situation here, like Malcolm Butler's story itself, is unusual. I hope it ends well for Malcolm and for the Patriots; their interests align in many ways.
Lombardi was not an assistant coach here.

There is entirely no way to know who is telling the truth and who is not.
 
Sounds like Patriots spin to be honest, i don't believe for a second Malcolm Butler turns down the contract Gilmore got, anyone who thinks he would is drinking some serious Pats Kool Aid.

Kid has made peanuts so far you think he turns down anywhere near 40m GTD?

I think you could of got Butler to sign for less than that, i think the Pats are just trying to control the story in case they trade him or he holds out.
Of course he wouldn't turn down what a ufa got since he is a RFA.
 
There are two issues here.

1) what value do both the Pats and Butler's agent put on Butler. If his agent sees him as a top 10 corner he likely wanted a $12m+ per year deal (last year when they last had talks), similar to what Janoris Jenkins signed. If the Pats, as Reiss has suggested, see him as a high 2/low 1 CB, then they were likely looking at a $9/10m average last year.

2) The agent likely wanted to rip up Butler's contract and the Pats wanted an extension. That ends up being a big difference as the Pats had Butler under contract from last year for two years $4.5m.

therefore, there is easily a scenario where the agent last off season was asking for something like a 5 year $60m deal and the Pats were thinking something like 5 years $32-35m (3 year extension of $27-30m plus the two years at a $5m total).

That's a big difference in value right there.
 
Can't see Bill abandoning his secret Moon spying base and giving the whole thing to Butler.
 
Sounds like Patriots spin to be honest, i don't believe for a second Malcolm Butler turns down the contract Gilmore got, anyone who thinks he would is drinking some serious Pats Kool Aid.

Kid has made peanuts so far you think he turns down anywhere near 40m GTD?

I think you could of got Butler to sign for less than that, i think the Pats are just trying to control the story in case they trade him or he holds out.

If that's an example of controlling the story, I'd say they are doing badly. These stories make him a less valuable asset for trade.
 
Maybe. Word is that his agent is a noob. Smells a lot like when Welker left.
From what i read his agent is an ambulance chaser..enough said. As far as butler goes he must be asking for the moon. A couple of days ago i pleading butlers case on here, what i had forgotten or didn't know was that he refused to sign his tender offer and that he was asking for a lot more than 14 mill a year, maybe more than josh norman. If that the case i can see why BB paid gilmor.
 
From what i read his agent is an ambulance chaser..enough said. As far as butler goes he must be asking for the moon. A couple of days ago i pleading butlers case on here, what i had forgotten or didn't know was that he refused to sign his tender offer and that he was asking for a lot more than 14 mill a year, maybe more than josh norman. If that the case i can see why BB paid gilmor.

What his agent did do was get him into an Alabama pro day (where he ran quite slow, 4.6) and then kept his name alive to get him a look / see from an NFL team that happened to be the Pats, where he ran a 4.4 and the Pats signed him on the spot.

That's pretty good work for an ambulance chaser. Is he totally inexperienced, yes, but that does not mean he isn't a decent representative for the player.

What we do not know and will never know here is what is really going on. Is the agent treating the negotiations for what the player really is-a restricted free agent or is he insisting that they negotiate as if he is unrestricted.

We'll find out the answer at some point, could be all the way to June....

i think Gilmore was great insurance for any outcome. We have a #1 CB all wrapped up and thanks to 36mm remaining, a great chance to have two long term. If not long term, maybe for one year or worst case, we'll get value should things go sour and he ends up moving on.

Last point....after all is said and done, the player ends up calling the final shot.
 
I've heard the agent noob thing a few times now from several different sources.

I don't think amounts are what is keeping this from happening. BB has shown to have a really good read on the market so far, understanding the values that the market will bear, so I don't think he's going to say Malcolm is worth $13M but we're only going to offer $9M.

I wonder if it has more to do with the structure of the deal, whether it's what to do with this year, or the "non-guaranteed guarantees" as I refer to them. It might be as simple as this agent wants it all in a signing bonus up front and with the first few seasons totally guaranteed (like Revis's deal with the Jets), while the Patriots want to have roster bonuses and other controls in there which are counted as guaranteed money, but aren't really guaranteed money.

I don't know obviously, but it seems like the Patriots don't want to bother dealing with this agent anymore. It could be that the player, the agent, or the team is unreasonable, and from watching Butler over the years, it sure seems like it won't be the player. I think the team won't be super friendly and accommodating, but they've always been reasonable or fair about player values. So to me, that leaves the agent. When the team isn't even bothering to talk, it sounds like communication is a real issue.
 
What his agent did do was get him into an Alabama pro day (where he ran quite slow, 4.6) and then kept his name alive to get him a look / see from an NFL team that happened to be the Pats, where he ran a 4.4 and the Pats signed him on the spot.

That's pretty good work for an ambulance chaser. Is he totally inexperienced, yes, but that does not mean he isn't a decent representative for the player.

What we do not know and will never know here is what is really going on. Is the agent treating the negotiations for what the player really is-a restricted free agent or is he insisting that they negotiate as if he is unrestricted.

We'll find out the answer at some point, could be all the way to June....

i think Gilmore was great insurance for any outcome. We have a #1 CB all wrapped up and thanks to 36mm remaining, a great chance to have two long term. If not long term, maybe for one year or worst case, we'll get value should things go sour and he ends up moving on.

Last point....after all is said and done, the player ends up calling the final shot.
Your not personal injury lawyer are you? You seem a little exercised about my comment.
 
Your not personal injury lawyer are you? You seem a little exercised about my comment.

Ha ha ...no, far from it.

It wasn't your comment at all, actually, I thought this agent was a dork myself until SBB woke me up with the realization that dork or not, he may be a decent agent, the player truly calls the shots and of course we do t have a clue.
 
My guess is that last year the Pats offered him a three year deal for 7 to 9 million a year and the Noob said if he is a number one CB you pay him as a number one. Bill said take it or leave it and if you don't there will be no more discussions until UFA.
 
Could it be that both the Pats and Butler/his agent are willing to let the market decide, and everything else is uninformed noise filling the void caused by the lack of a long term deal until the market makes its decision?
 
He hasn't signed yet because they still cannot find what he asked for.

Mystery-of-Nibiru-orbit.jpg
 
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