4th round pick and Deflategate Penalty

YOUGOTMOSSED · Mar 11, 2017

ivanvamp said:
So one aspect of the Deflategate penalty was that the Patriots were to lose their 4th round pick (and my understanding is that if they acquired other 4th round picks, they would be forced to give up the best of their 4th round picks). But if they don't have any because they're all traded away, how does the NFL handle it?

For example...

Let's say the Patriots had dealt away their own 4th rounder in a deal where they also got two other 4th rounders back. Say they had dealt their own 4th plus a 2nd, and received back a player and two 4ths from another team. Those two 4ths they acquired would be better than their original 4th round pick. So the NFL would take the highest of those 4th rounders, but they wouldn't take it until draft day.

But what if, in subsequent trades, the Patriots dealt away both those 4th round picks and were left with no 4th rounders after all their wheeling and dealing was done? Would the NFL dock them a THIRD round pick? Could they just make it up as they went along?

Somewhat off topic but . . . Goodell's contract is up in 2018, right? Presumably, we only have to tolerate this clown for 2 more NFL seasons?

maineman209 · Mar 11, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
Why on earth would you trust Volin on anything? He thought Kraft was the Kraft of Kraft dinners.

Easily explained by the fact that Volin spent 8 years covering the Phins and the Gators. That would warp anyone's sense of reality.

goheels22002 · Mar 11, 2017

ivanvamp said:
So one aspect of the Deflategate penalty was that the Patriots were to lose their 4th round pick (and my understanding is that if they acquired other 4th round picks, they would be forced to give up the best of their 4th round picks). But if they don't have any because they're all traded away, how does the NFL handle it?

For example...

Let's say the Patriots had dealt away their own 4th rounder in a deal where they also got two other 4th rounders back. Say they had dealt their own 4th plus a 2nd, and received back a player and two 4ths from another team. Those two 4ths they acquired would be better than their original 4th round pick. So the NFL would take the highest of those 4th rounders, but they wouldn't take it until draft day.

But what if, in subsequent trades, the Patriots dealt away both those 4th round picks and were left with no 4th rounders after all their wheeling and dealing was done? Would the NFL dock them a THIRD round pick? Could they just make it up as they went along?

The Patriots cannot trade their 2o17 4th round pick since it has already been taken from them. Please don't tell the Jets.

goheels22002 · Mar 11, 2017

This is a great thread. Based on the wheeling and dealing going on here, I was wondering if anyone has a 2011 to 2015 Volvo XC 70 T6 or Premier that they would trade for my fully restored 1963 Triumph Spitfire that I sold in 2005.

zipster9 · Mar 11, 2017

goheels22002 said:
The Patriots cannot trade their 2o17 4th round pick since it has already been taken from them. Please don't tell the Jets.

I don't think that is quite true.

Current scenario:

#118, #132.

Result: NFL takes #118 away.

But, Patriots can trade any of them but not both.

But, what really is puzzling is that Patriots knew they would lose #118 on the Cooks trade. Why didnt they ask for something else?

maineman209 · Mar 11, 2017

Wild scenario that will never happen ...

BB trades the #72, #96 and #131 for younger NFL players and/or 5th, 6th, 7th round picks. Goodell takes the #118, leaving the Pats with nothing but Day-3 picks and UDFAs.

Then, the Pats go 19-0 in 2017, with several of those late-round picks and UDFAs making notable contributions.

Now THAT would be a "Revenge Tour".

maineman209 · Mar 11, 2017

zipster9 said:
I don't think that is quite true.

Current scenario:

#118, #132.

Result: NFL takes #118 away.

But, Patriots can trade any of them but not both.

But, what really is puzzling is that Patriots knew they would lose #118 on the Cooks trade. Why didnt they ask for something else?

Screwing with Goodell?

TB_Helmet · Mar 11, 2017

I think it's really important to know whether we're allowed to trade fourth round picks until draft day, assuming we always have one.

Assuming we can (and that 118 isn't 'frozen', which as others have said, could be the case depending on how you interpret the language)....

Then we should try to decrease the value of our fourth rounders as much as possible. If we have 118 and 132, then we should try to trade 118 to whoever has 131 and get *something* for it. Like, trade 118 for 131 and a 2018 7th rounder. If Goodell's gonna steal it, then might as well make it as "unvaluable" as possible.

ivanvamp · Mar 11, 2017

I know earlier in the thread someone said that if they have a single fourth round pick they couldn't trade it, but could they trade it for another fourth round pick, only to have THAT pick forfeited to the league?

As in...

Trade the NO 4th rounder for, say, Atlanta's 4th rounder plus a 6th rounder? Then the Pats lose Atlanta's 4th rounder (they'd lose whatever single 4th round pick they have anyway so it's no loss) but gain a 6th rounder in the process?

zipster9 · Mar 11, 2017

ivanvamp said:
I know earlier in the thread someone said that if they have a single fourth round pick they couldn't trade it, but could they trade it for another fourth round pick, only to have THAT pick forfeited to the league?

As in...

Trade the NO 4th rounder for, say, Atlanta's 4th rounder plus a 6th rounder? Then the Pats lose Atlanta's 4th rounder (they'd lose whatever single 4th round pick they have anyway so it's no loss) but gain a 6th rounder in the process?

Yes. Any "highest 4th round pick" will be forfeited. But, by the time the draft starts, Patriots must have a 4th rounder to be forfeited.

TB_Helmet · Mar 11, 2017

ivanvamp said:
I know earlier in the thread someone said that if they have a single fourth round pick they couldn't trade it, but could they trade it for another fourth round pick, only to have THAT pick forfeited to the league?

As in...

Trade the NO 4th rounder for, say, Atlanta's 4th rounder plus a 6th rounder? Then the Pats lose Atlanta's 4th rounder (they'd lose whatever single 4th round pick they have anyway so it's no loss) but gain a 6th rounder in the process?

Yeah that's what I think could happen. Decrease the value of the Saints 4th rounder by trading it for a much worse 4th rounder, and get something while decreasing that value.

zipster9 · Mar 11, 2017

I am hoping that BillB does some more trades such that he trades #118 for someone else or some other picks. This way he maximizes the value...

DaBronxPats14 · Mar 11, 2017

ivanvamp said:
Could they just make it up as they went along?

I think we ALL know that answer to your question.

rads2005 · Mar 11, 2017

In my opinion the answer to this is simple- the NFL wouldn't allow the trade of their last 4th round pick. They'd just refuse to approve the trade.

tombonneau · Mar 11, 2017

Apologies if this was mentioned earlier ... But couldn't patriots/Saints done the same deal sans 188 but have a handshake deal with Saints to draft the player the Pats want at 118 and then Pats trade a seventh round comp for said player?

40yrpatsfan · Mar 11, 2017

I don't think they'll allow us to wheel and deal higher 4th rounders until draft day, even if an argument can be made that the wording sort of allows it/doesn't explicitly prohibit it. I think the penalty really hurts us in this case cause the deal with NO was made on the premise of our moving back just 20 or so spots, not 35 spots. We need to make a deal on draft day to land a bargain mid 4th to make up for this - a deal that was worth a low 4th but we get a mid 4th.

The Gr8est · Mar 11, 2017

40yrpatsfan said:
I don't think they'll allow us to wheel and deal higher 4th rounders until draft day, even if an argument can be made that the wording sort of allows it/doesn't explicitly prohibit it. I think the penalty really hurts us in this case cause the deal with NO was made on the premise of our moving back just 20 or so spots, not 35 spots. We need to make a deal on draft day to land a bargain mid 4th to make up for this - a deal that was worth a low 4th but we get a mid 4th.

Yup, that's a difference of two Giants' penalties vs 3.5 Giants' penalties.

TB_Helmet · Mar 11, 2017

tombonneau said:
Apologies if this was mentioned earlier ... But couldn't patriots/Saints done the same deal sans 188 but have a handshake deal with Saints to draft the player the Pats want at 118 and then Pats trade a seventh round comp for said player?

That'd be awesome. Saints hate Goodell too so maybe they'd be down to do it!

XLIX · Mar 11, 2017

BelichickFan said:
I know it's Volin but he says we can trade the highest #4 :

If this is true then my post is wrong.

Well except the part about Goodell being an *******.

long distance · Mar 12, 2017

It is a bit unfortunate that NO and NE couldn't find a way to trade #118 for a lower one and some return (f.e. with HOU #131). But the Cooks transaction seem to be official acc. to Reiss so it turns like a pretty steep price to pay.

On the other hand the Draft board will tell you there is hardly a difference between #118 and #131 or #132 this year and since its looking more and more that NE will go to draft with no needs .. Bill will have what he wants there..

4th round pick and Deflategate Penalty

In the Starting Line-Up

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

Practice Squad Player

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

In the Starting Line-Up

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Similar threads