OT: I am amazed at how many NFL fans think the NFL is rigged

mosslost said:

exactly. You know how many times Tyree, Eli, and Rodney had to rehearse that helmet catch before they had it down too.. a lot

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Not to mention, you just watch when one of the thousands of players involved in these rigged games finally comes forward and squeals. They may have the commitment of a ninja and resolve of a navy seal, but one of these days someone's gonna crack!

mosslost said:

I should clarify that the people who bother to post on message boards such as our own are a small sample of all American NFL fans. But I am often stunned at how many fans talk about how "it's in the script" whatever. Such utter foolishness to think any sport could be fully "orchestrated" in such a manner. Ultimately it really is just a few crazies.

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it shouldn't surprise you. some think 911 was rigged. nothing should surprise anybody when you consider how crazy our country and world have become.

it is frankly impossible to meet the requirements of what you seem to be calling "rigging"

you seem to expect it to be outright and OBVIOUS altering of things within the game to favor one side over another...but you can't do that because then it would be SO obvious, so you have to do it in back alley sort of ways

and if you don't see the back alley sort of ways that the league HAS in FACT been doing it, you haven't been paying attention (or reading a lot of posts in this thread)

but for arguments sake, why dont YOU, OP, explain to US what in your eyes would qualify as rigging, how would you know it was happening, etc

"Rigging" doesn't have to involve players or referees.

For instance, if you punish one player or one team in a manner that's arbitrary and punitive, that's an attempt to "rig" results.

I believe to this day that Deflategate was used by Roger Goodell and other owners to "rig" the league by denying the Patriots access to their own draft picks and one of their best players for four games.

And no, Deflategate is not "over" because the 1st round pick the Patriots should have had last year should have been on their roster for four or five years, at a minimum.

mosslost said:

What? So you mean the Brady suspension was meant to affect the Pats not winning a Super Bowl this year?

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Yes. Actually, I believe that his suspension was intended to make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for the Patriots to win this year's SB.

mosslost said:

exactly. You know how many times Tyree, Eli, and Rodney had to rehearse that helmet catch before they had it down too.. a lot

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I wish the rest of the secondary broke script on that play :S

Jackson 2 said:

Yes. Actually, I believe that his suspension was intended to make it much more difficult, if not impossible, for the Patriots to win this year's SB.

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OK, but I don't agree with this point. I think the suspension was wrong and dumb, but it was not purposed to produce any desired outcome on the field. This would be major, major problem, and I don't buy that at all.

XLIX said:

Most (all?) of the morons arguing that SB51 was rigged are saying that the Falcons were in on it..

There are really no bad calls that they can point to which helped out New England. Their primary "evidence" is the bad play calling.

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wow. unreal. So the whole Falcon team just through the game.

The same league office who screwed up Ray Rice, Josh Brown and countless other things making themselves look utterly stupid were somehow good enough to fix the Tyree, Manningham, Kearse and Edelman catches along with the Butler interception. That's without going into all the things so actively anti-Patriots which have transpired.

ALP said:

it is frankly impossible to meet the requirements of what you seem to be calling "rigging"

you seem to expect it to be outright and OBVIOUS altering of things within the game to favor one side over another...but you can't do that because then it would be SO obvious, so you have to do it in back alley sort of ways

and if you don't see the back alley sort of ways that the league HAS in FACT been doing it, you haven't been paying attention (or reading a lot of posts in this thread)

but for arguments sake, why dont YOU, OP, explain to US what in your eyes would qualify as rigging, how would you know it was happening, etc

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>>but for arguments sake, why dont YOU, OP, explain to US what in your eyes would qualify as rigging, how would you know it was happening, etc

First of all I am simply commenting on what a lot of other fan bases are saying on boards, probably just because they are pissed. But I am more specifically referring to the more idiot ones who actually think the players are like actors in a play. (Those are exact words from one Bronco fan, who actually said he was depressed because he is "finally accepting" that that is what his favorite sport is like, fake.)

Rigged? So by your post you are saying that on some levels some things are going on.. I think you are wrong, at least on an official, league, team, conspiracy type level.

My reasons for thinking you are wrong are many. The biggest though is that it simply is not in the best interest of any of their enterprises. (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL) ANY level of it is fake would be KISS of DEATH for these leagues. If you think that is going on there is a Flat Earth society for you as well.

Other examples of why you are wrong, is the fact that the times when stuff occasionally does happen (Black Sox scandal, point shaving players on the take, corrupt refs) they are seen as tremendous black marks and are considered shameful.

SO, you say that in back alley ways the league is doing **** to determine outcomes of their games, which would be a majorly damaging thing to do to their own product. The burden of proof would be on you not me, since you are making the rather blatant claim of it as fact. There is no burden on me, to take these leagues at their word, that their sports' games are on the up and up, and real competition. You are the one making the remarkable claim, not me.

Well if you consider rigged, when a team that takes Rookie mini-camps, mini camps, OTA's, training camp, pre-season, regular season, playoffs and the SB and puts focused energy into each of them equally, then absolutely yes definitely rigged.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

I think the past decade plus of very suspect work by the competition committee and commissioner has damaged the brand. I know it has in my eyes.

I don't think games are rigged or scripted, but I have little doubt that the front office uses their power to put their thumb on the scale. Honestly I think the refs do an admirable job given the corrupt clowns they answer to.

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Exactly. We can thank Roger for drilling up scandal after scandal and treating them like they were crime of the century issues to boost his pathetic self image when they were no more than jaywalking type offenses if they were offenses at all.

mosslost said:

OK. But nothing is fixed or rigged though. All those things could be true and be examples of unfair treatment, but it does not mean anything is rigged in any way or scripted. (I'm not saying that is what you are saying, I just to be clear what I mean)

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We're on the same page.

mosslost said:

OK, but I don't agree with this point. I think the suspension was wrong and dumb, but it was not purposed to produce any desired outcome on the field. This would be major, major problem, and I don't buy that at all.

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Just asking -- do you have a reason for skepticism beyond hoping it's not true? It's not like Goodell has earned the benefit of the doubt here

Simpelton said:

Just asking -- do you have a reason for skepticism beyond hoping it's not true? It's not like Goodell has earned the benefit of the doubt here

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Yes I think all the evidence is on the side of the outcomes of games are entirely on the up and up. Goodell is an ***, yes. And Deflategate is a dumpster fire. But none of it is done with the desire to determine, actually determine the outcome of the championship, no way. And I see no evidence of that.

The Saints were harshly punished for the Bounty Gate, some agree some don't agree. And it in fact will and could impact outcomes. (Same with a Brady suspension, and same with a Rothlisberger suspension)

But, whether wrong (Deflategate) or right (Ben IMO) the suspensions are punishments from the league for wrong doing (real or imagined). The question is their purpose. There is just no way, that their purpose is to determine who will win games. The "purpose" is punishment, and power. There is a very important difference. There is no way they are punishing teams to keep them from contending as the purpose of the punishment. If they were doing this is would be a very, very bad thing and terrible move by them.

To be clear, I think "deflategate" was and is ridiculous.

Jackson 2 said:

Yes.

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mosslost said:

Yes I think all the evidence is on the side of the outcomes of games are entirely on the up and up. Goodell is an ***, yes. And Deflategate is a dumpster fire. But none of it is done with the desire to determine, actually determine the outcome of the championship, no way. And I see no evidence of that.

The Saints were harshly punished for the Bounty Gate, some agree some don't agree. And it in fact will and could impact outcomes. (Same with a Brady suspension, and same with a Rothlisberger suspension)

But, whether wrong (Deflategate) or right (Ben IMO) the suspensions are punishments from the league for wrong doing (real or imagined). The question is their purpose. There is just no way, that their purpose is to determine who will win games. The "purpose" is punishment, and power. There is a very important difference. There is no way they are punishing teams to keep them from contending as the purpose of the punishment. If they were doing this is would be a very, very bad thing and terrible move by them.

To be clear, I think "deflategate" was and is ridiculous.

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I respect your opinion, which is clearly well-thought out and reasoned. But, I disagree. I've never been a tin foil hat conspiracy guy. However, the DG ******** when paired up with the lack of commensurate discipline meted out to other teams for repeated, far worse offenses causes me to conclude that the league tried to rig this past season against the Patriots.

The Internet has encouraged more to be absolutely delusional. People live in a telephone-sized safe space and dismiss the world beyond it. Every team has conspiracy theorists. It's in every sport and every other aspect of our lives. Faked moon landings, Illumanti, 100 mile per gallon carburetors off the market by Detroit.

This is becoming as bad as substance abuse and personality disorders. While we have more information than ever, it's fogged by rumors, lies, BS.

We need more people to think critically and see the world as it really is. That famous Jack Nicolson line: "YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!"...apparently lots of people can't deal with the truth.

You read about successful people and one reason they are is they deal with the world as it is instead of dwelling on things being rigged, etc. As opposed to losers.

mosslost said:

I should clarify that the people who bother to post on message boards such as our own are a small sample of all American NFL fans. But I am often stunned at how many fans talk about how "it's in the script" whatever. Such utter foolishness to think any sport could be fully "orchestrated" in such a manner. Ultimately it really is just a few crazies.

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Its not rigged.. if it was rigged we would see the most highly rated teams play in the Super Bowl.. each year.

I don't think its rigged, but I bet there are things going on like black ops kinda stuff to gain competitive advantages. I don't know this for certain.

If it was rigged do you think the owner of the Falcons so happy to come down onto the field when his team was up by 19 points in the 4th quarter.. just to watch his team slowly cough up the lead and lose the game. You could see the look of anguish on his face. That tells me its not a rigged game. You can't fake that.

And the Patriots would not be going to this many championship games if it was rigged. I don't think so anyway.

They are gonna have to atleast rename the AFC C to the New England Patriots invitational.

I think we need to clarify what "rigged" means. Things don't have to be absolutely 100% deterministic for the alleged "fix" to be "in." Manipulating the odds is enough to be a "fix" and if the odds are stcked against one team or group of teams, then the fix would be in whether or not it was absolutely impossible for them to win.

hard to argue that the recently decisions out of Park Avenue have been very deliberately making it harder for the Patriots to be as consistently good as they have been.

Not alleging that that's actually taking place so much as trying to clarify definitions for a more useful discussion.

bormio said:

I'm not. There are people agreeing with Irving that the earth is flat.

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Kyrie! What's going on there? Is he taking this stance due to religious beliefs, (Bible said it's flat, right?) or has he just plain lost his mind?