Why did it take 10 years to win more SuperBowls?

TommyD4207 · Feb 13, 2017

MrNathanDrake said:
1. Brady evolved as a QB. You saw in the 2014 season where we won SB XLIX, he started scrambling and running the ball more than ever before. Defenses gave him space and he took it if he couldn't find an open receiver. This paid off big time in this years Super Bowl as well, as his 15 year run at the time was a big momentum swing and our best run of the entire game up to that point. After drafting Jimmy Garopollo, who was praised coming out of the draft for his quick release.... Tom Brady's release got super fast. He started making decisions and releasing the ball so quick it's become hard for most edge rushers to get to him before he throws it. He also improved pre-snap and became more like Peyton Manning in this area. It's as if Brady is able to take the best parts of other QB's and add it to his repertoire. Brady is the best student of the game. It's amazing that such an old QB is still evolving and adding new things to his game.

2. Consistency at the Offensive and Defensive coordinator positions. We won 3 lombardi's with Romeo Crenel and Charlie Weis. After they left it took 10 years to win another Lombardi! We went through Mangini, Dom Capers, and Dean Pees at defensive coordinator. Josh McD and then Bill OBrien, then back to Josh McDaniels at Offensive coordinator. Finally there is stability and both of our coordinators are amongst the best in the NFL.

3. We have a defense again. After the 3 SB wins in the early 2000's, our defense was aging. We eventually lost key players like Seymour and Ty Law. Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Harrison, all got old and retired. The next generation of defenders didn't carry the torch. Asante Samuel wanted too much money, Meriweather didn't pan out, and Jerod Mayo was good but not great. Finally we have a real defense again. Devin McCourty and Chung took a few years to find their groove but now their one of the top safety tandems in the league. Malcolm Butler came out of nowhere and is a top CB in the league. Hightower might go down as the best Patriots MLB ever if he sticks around. You really have to credit Belichick, Nick Caserio, and the rest of the front office for the bargain bin finds they've picked up.... Alan Branch. Akeem Ayers. Kyle Van Noy. Chris Long. Eric Rowe. Matt Patricia has obviously been a big reason for our defensive improvement.

4. Rebuilding takes time. Most won't admit that we went through a rebuilding phase, but we definitely did. You look at the 2009 to 2013 draft classes. Almost ALL of those players that stuck with the team took a few years to develop. Edelman certainly wasn't this good during his first few years in the league. He kept getting injured, made mistakes, and had to gain a lot of muscle. 2014 was really his break out season. Chung was drafted in 2009, got labeled a bust, went to another team, came back as "camp fodder" in 2014 and that was really his break out season as well. McCourtey bounced around CB to Safety, then took some time to master his craft at Safety. Now he's one of the best in the league. Marcus Cannon was drafted in 2011 and looked like a bench warmer up until this season. In 2016 he was one of the best RT in the NFL and a huge reason Brady was kept upright this year. Logan Ryan and Duron Harmon were both drafted in 2013. Ryan in particular has had a lot of ups and downs, but he looks like he finally settled in this year. Those two Rutgers defensive backs solidified our secondary.

Players like Gronk and Hightower that come in and beast from Day 1 are the exception not the rule.

5. Brady got injured. 2008 and 2009 were wasted seasons due to Bradys knee injury. Obviously he came back in 2009 but I felt like it took him a whole season to really come back from that injury. If Brady's healthy those years, who knows what happens.

The other team gets paid too. That's why.

pheenix11 · Feb 13, 2017

A drought is not making the playoffs. Winning the Super Bowl is damn hard and requires a lot of luck when it comes to health and the bounces in the game. It all felt worse because 2007 was so painful.

Todd Bradley · Feb 13, 2017

2005: Aging team, Brushci stroke, no more Ty Law, Rodney IRed and lots more injuries derailed the season. Truly a Super Bowl hangover year.

2006: Could've and should've won it, choked in Indy, would've killed Chicago. Overall though the offense lost its identity, with the loss of David Givens and Deion Branch and Bill replaced them with JAGs Caldwell and Gaffney.

2007: A fluke helmet catch, Samuel forgets how to catch an easy INT, Pierre Woods gets outmuscled by Bradshaw and for some reason, only deep bombs to Moss are the only playcalls on the final drive when a field goal ties the game...This as we all know, could've and should've been a Super Bowl win.

2008: Brady tears his ACL in the first game of the year. Nuff said.

2009: Brady still not his full self. Welker tears his ACL in final regular season game. McDaniels leaves for Denver. Seymour traded. Bruschi and Harrison retire. One of the least talented teams in the Brady/Belichick era. This team had no shot.

2010: Could've and should've of won it all. Team chokes against the Jets at home in the Divisional.

2011: Gronk injures ankle in the AFCCG. Team overachieves but still could've won it all. Defense was atrocious though. One of the worst defenses Belichick has ever had. Antwan Molden, one of the worst players in the entire history of the NFL, is one of our starting CBs. Our CB depth is so terrible Edelman has to take reps there in the Super Bowl no less. But even still, if Gronk doesn't get injured, the Pats probably beat the Giants somewhat comfortably.

2012: Gronk breaks forearm in the Divisional. Talib ****es out in the AFCCG. Offense is in disarray and gets punched in the mouth against Baltimore at home. An overall soft team that most likely would've lost to San Francisco had they made the Super Bowl, especially considering the Niners beat and outplayed this team earlier in the season in Foxboro.

2013: Gronk tears ACL mid season. Talib ****es out in the AFCCG for the second year in a row. We have one of the worst offenses in the Brady/Belichick era, being forced to play JAGs such as Austin Collie and Matthew Mulligan. This Pats team was completely inferior to Denver. This team most likely would've been anahilated by Seattle in the Super Bowl. Pretty happy Denver took the beating instead of us.

That basically sums it up.

The 2005, 2008 and 2009 teams had no shot.

The 2012 and 2013 teams both overachieved due to the brilliance of Belichick/Brady and while they made the AFCCG both years, they weren't beating San Fran and Seattle in those Super Bowls.

I really only think 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2011 were truly the years the could've and definitely should've won it all.

But again, the others teams get paid too and sometimes the luck runs against you. Winning in the NFL is tough.

Bobsyouruncle · Feb 14, 2017

That 2006 SD team was dominant. Patriots won that on smoke and mirrors. SD intercepts the ball late in the fourth and the CB gets stripped and NE recovers. Just a crazy game.

deroc5050 · Feb 14, 2017

RecoveringCowboy said:
That would be point #6 on the OP. Tom Coughlin knows BB. He fielded talented teams, unlike most coaches could play football chess with BB, and in the first Giants SB win, had some luck added.

I don't really see it that way.. I just think most of these Super Bowls the Pats have played have been tight games. And I can point to key plays in those Giants Super Bowls that could have won the game for us, they didn't go our way. I think its circumstantial that Coughlin beat us twice in the Super Bowl.

I don't think Tom Coughlin has the secret sauce to beat TB/BB.. honestly they got lucky, especially in 2007.

KamikazeKnight · Feb 14, 2017

Given how close the two losses were, I'm not so sure a detailed explanation is necessary. If even one or two plays had gone differently, the question we'd be asking is "Will we ever have to wait more than 3 seasons for another SB victory again?"

RecoveringCowboy · Feb 14, 2017

Pats had a period of "almost making it." Unlike the Vikings, Bills, and Colts, that period is sandwiched with multiple SBs on both ends. Just some perspective.

PatsFanInVa · Feb 14, 2017

TommyD4207 said:
The other team gets paid too. That's why.

Beat me to it.

Why did it take 25 years to get to - not win - the first one?

supafly · Feb 14, 2017

They came close in 2006, 2007, and 2011, so I'm going to chalk it up to some bad luck that was bound to happen in between 3/4 (earlier 2000s) and 2/3 (current) Super Bowl runs.

Kargetina · Feb 14, 2017

From my perspective, we've been close to a SB 9 times during the Brady era, and we've won 5 of those which is absolutely remarkable considering the parity in the league.

2006/2007/2011/2015

In each of those years, we've been a play from either winning or going to the SB. The 2010 team was good but just like the Packers 2011 it proved that the playoffs are a new season, and what you've done in the regular season is irrelevant except giving you a home field. Every game starts at 0:0.

Now, i want to focus on 2007. Yes, the Helmet catch went on to become the iconic play but that play didn't win the SB. Just like Kearse's catch didn't win the SB for Seattle. And mind you, Kearse caught the ball at the 5 yard line, Tyree caught it on the 25 yard line with a minute to go.

First play after the catch, Eli gets sacked, they use their final TO and now they're 2-nd and 11 with 52 seconds left and 26 yards to go. Everyone remembers Samuel's missed INT but what about Meriweather's? On second down, Eli throws a terrible pass that goes right between Meriweather's hands.

Now it's 3-rd and 11 from the 26-th with 45 seconds and no time outs. And the next two plays are what lost us the SB. Once again Meriweather loses his man and they get a first down and worse, he tackles him out of bounds and stops the clock. The following play we leave Hobbs one-on-one with Burress for the easiest crunch time TD in SB history.

Contrast that with the two defensive plays by two guys who are now the pillars of our defense, Hightower and Butler. First, Hightower makes a game saving tackle, then Browner does a great job of making space for Butler and Butler goes on to make history.

The difference between winning 49 and losing 42 was how the defense responded to the 2 fluke catches. Meriweather makes the interception and the helmet catch would have been a footnote in NFL history, just like Kearse's catch.

When you analyze in detail every SB and every close playoff game we've played in the Brady era, you become bewildered by the tiniest of margins that make or break a game. We tend to simplify them into a more palpable context like ''Edelman's catch'' or ''The helmet catch'' but there were 50 plays before and after that were just as important. It's a game with so many variables, so many factors, a SB win by itself is a huge accomplishment. Can you imagine what Bills, Jets, Falcons, Vikings fans would give for one SB? The fact that Brady has 5 in 15 full seasons as a starter is out of this world. We're tremendously fortunate to love and support this team.

slash83 · Feb 14, 2017

Cause it isn't easy..

PP2 · Feb 14, 2017

Simpelton said:
Because winning the Superbowl is the exception not the norm, even in New England, and we still shouldn't be measuring franchise success entirely based on Superbowls, even though as a New England fan I'm glad we are in a position to fool ourselves into thinking we can.

Best post I've read in a long time. How easily we forget the days of Sullivan and the metal bleachers.

QuantumMechanic · Feb 14, 2017

mosslost said:
>>Rebuilding takes time

SB 42 was not a "rebuild". SB 42 was not part of any drought or anything either. And your point about the defense does not make sense either. The defense was excellent in SB 42, and good enough in SB 46. It was great imo in 51.. but just good enough in 49.

2007 defense wasn't nearly as good as people like to think. Being able to play from (often very far) ahead masked a whole bunch of flaws.

QuantumMechanic · Feb 14, 2017

mosslost said:
Injuries did not play a part in the ten year drought, no. Injuries played a part in 2012,13,15
EDIT:I guess maybe Gronk's ankle in SB 46 but he did play.
2nd Edit: My bad... you are correct. 2012 and 2013 would be in that window.

Gronk didn't "play" in any meaningful sense of the word in SB46. He was a shell of himself and a even a below-average TE would have contributed more than Gronk was able to in that game.

A Defiant Goose · Feb 14, 2017

The simple answer is that it could have easily not taken 10 years. Their last good chance was 2008 and Brady got injured. After that, most of the cornerstone defense players either retired or got traded and we were stuck with a mess at defense until 2014. I hope it's different this time around, we really need to find a way to keep the core in tact for a long time. Butler, High, McCourty, Chung, to a lesser extent Ryan, Rowe, Branch are critical to not going into another 5 to 6 years of historically bad defenses

QuantumMechanic · Feb 14, 2017

50-yard-line said:
if Assante catches that easy pick.

That was not an "easy pick". Go watch the tape again.

QuantumMechanic · Feb 14, 2017

patsfan13 said:
Brady got a high ankle sprain the week before the SB in 2007 SB and suffered a separated shoulder in the 3rd qtr of the 2011 SB. Both injuries were huge.

And Neal going down mid-game in SB42.

brdmaverick · Feb 14, 2017

PatriotReign said:
People forget by how things turned out. Adailus Thomas made the game winning strip sack of Eli Manning late in Superbowl 42, unfortunately no one could recover the ball.

Are you referring to the sack he had with 59 seconds left? On that sack there was no fumble to be recovered.

brdmaverick · Feb 14, 2017

QuantumMechanic said:
That was not an "easy pick". Go watch the tape again.

Agreed, makeable, but not easy.......was definitely high.

chasa · Feb 14, 2017

MrNathanDrake said:
Because its really ****ing hard to win a world title in the salary cap era.

I fixed it for you.

Why did it take 10 years to win more SuperBowls?

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