Taking another look at the cap situation for next season.

deroc5050 said:

The thing is there hasnt been no sharpening off the blade.. he hasn't dropped off at all and he is playing behind an average at best O line. OTOH you keep Jimmy G until the end of 2017 and then you make the biggest decision since Brady / Bledsoe.

If Brady in 2017 has another MVP like season, I honestly think Bill has to take a chance and resign Brady to a 3 year extention (yes he will be 43 at the end of the make believe extention) And franchise Jimmy G, then trade him IF Jimmy's trade value is still high.

If you see a dramatic drop off in 2017 for Brady at the age of 40 then you gotta cut bait. They will do whats best for the team.

From what I have seen of Brisset so far, I don't really like his game. I don't think Jacoby is the future starter for New England.

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I don't like jacoby either. Parcells should have kept his mouth shut and let us draft dak instead

BaconGrundleCandy said:

From PFF for another pov. *NOTE* The Butler grade is for the year so far. So they have him as the #2 guy behind Talib. Who in hindsight we probably should have signed. Him and Butler would be a force.

Anyway the other grades are from last week only. But Cannon has been playing well all year. We all no that but at least recently they seem to agree as well.


2. Malcolm Butler, New England Patriots, 86.4
Outside of Talib, there really hasn’t been a corner that has been consistently “shutdown,” but Malcolm Butler has had a fine season, outside of a couple of lapses. Against Miami back in Week 2, he surrendered 157 receiving yards, and he coughed up another 94 against Pittsburgh; beyond those games, he has given up 35 yards or fewer on six of his eight outings, and over the entire season, has allowed just 52.9 percent of passes into his coverage to be caught, despite occasionally being asked to track elite receivers.


Slot cornerback: Logan Ryan, New England Patriots, 87.2

Coming off easily his worst game of the season, Patriots cornerback Logan Ryan had easily his best outing in Week 11. .

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You are going to want to edit this post, you can't copy and paste copyrighted material nor can you copy it extensively word for word, nothing will get you banned faster.

nabwong said:

Devils advocate. Suppose they like a kicker in the draft. What are the implications for trading or cutting gost?

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Totally off topic, but from Wikipedia:

Gostkowski is the most accurate kicker in Patriots history, and one of the most accurate kickers in NFL history.[4] He is also a consistent and prolific scorer: He is only the second player in NFL history to score 500 points in his first four seasons in the league, and the first to score 1,000 points in his first eight seasons in the league (despite missing half the 2010 season with a leg injury). Gostkowski also holds the record for highest average points per game scored over a career (8.75 points per game as of the end of the 2015 season), and is the first player since the AFL-NFL merger to lead the league in scoring in more than two consecutive seasons (2012–2015; he also led the league in scoring in 2008). In 2014, he became the Patriots' all-time leading scorer, surpassing Adam Vinatieri. As of 2016, he is also the Patriots' all-time leader in field goals, and holds the NFL record for consecutive extra points.

Thoughts on Stuff I saw on this thread.

The Brady/JG thing - When it comes to the decline of Brady I don't see it much if at all. He has doubled down on improving certain things and it has paid off big time the past 2-3 years. That asside he did seem to IMO run out of gas at the end of 2015. I worry about his ability to takes hits for 16+ games and be effective anymore. That 4 game suspension may be a blessing perhaps. At this point in his career we should look not only to give Brady practices off but if it is borderline sit him in the regular season.

12-14 games with Brady is better than 16 games with almost anyone else.

Ryan - He is not nearly as bad as many fans here think. He has a perception problem with fans IMO when they look to blame him too much. He is a mid level #2 CB and believe it or not that is what they look like. It is not like the Pats somehow managed to screw up the #2 CB position and every other team has a good player there. That is what they are and the difference between him and other guys behind him is pretty big. I would not advocate the Pats to move on from Ryan carelessly. Also Rowe to me is not a pure #2 but really a match up based CB. He is very good on certain guys and not a good option on others. Ryan is more fluid in who he can cover.

If the defense stinks it up in the end then i wouldn't be surprise to see some changes. You still need talent on defense. This team need's some talent on the DL

Patriots front office will let Logan Ryan go. They are smart. I'll be happy to not have to see him in a patriots uniform anymore.

BobDigital said:

Ryan is more fluid in who he can cover.

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Right, nobody.

patfanken said:

5. Gronk - I think he needs to be extended, even with the injuries. He is just THAT impactful to this offense. Still he is under contract until the end of the 2019 season at some fairly big money, so I don't know what he'd be looking for. His base salary in 2019 is already $9MM

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If Gronk is active for all 16 games
Gronk's 2017 compensation is scheduled to be 5 million
2018 compensation - 9 million
2019 compensation - 10 million

Julius Thomas is the only tight end ($24.8 million) scheduled to receive more cash during those seasons. How much should Gronk receive during the next 3 seasons?

FWIW - Since he signed his extension in 2012 Gronk has missed 19 games. Therefore, he has been paid for 5 seasons but has played in less than four. Brady who has missed fewer games over a longer career was never extended with 3 seasons left on his contract. Tom Brady has been extended several times with two years left.

tasmlab said:

Totally off topic, but from Wikipedia:

Gostkowski is the most accurate kicker in Patriots history, and one of the most accurate kickers in NFL history.[4] He is also a consistent and prolific scorer: He is only the second player in NFL history to score 500 points in his first four seasons in the league, and the first to score 1,000 points in his first eight seasons in the league (despite missing half the 2010 season with a leg injury). Gostkowski also holds the record for highest average points per game scored over a career (8.75 points per game as of the end of the 2015 season), and is the first player since the AFL-NFL merger to lead the league in scoring in more than two consecutive seasons (2012–2015; he also led the league in scoring in 2008). In 2014, he became the Patriots' all-time leading scorer, surpassing Adam Vinatieri. As of 2016, he is also the Patriots' all-time leader in field goals, and holds the NFL record for consecutive extra points.

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Adam V was a hall of famer but they also let him go. I think BB is always planning for the future. So if there's a kicker he likes coming out and it makes sense financially, then they'll do it.

Ivan said:

You are going to want to edit this post, you can't copy and paste copyrighted material nor can you copy it extensively word for word, nothing will get you banned faster.

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The post is fine. It's fair use. It's not like he's re-posting PFF's premium/paid statistics.

You heard it here first - Pats extend Jimmy G this offseason - part of the reason they've accumulated that excess cap space. He's going nowhere, he's the QB of the future in NE. They hand JG some decent money up front -say $10M- but put off the bulk of big guaranteed bonuses for 2 years (meaning they start to come after next season). Brady has this year and next, that's it. And don't be shocked if he gets Tony Romoed next fall.

Brady'sButtBoy said:

You heard it here first - Pats extend Jimmy G this offseason - part of the reason they've accumulated that excess cap space. He's going nowhere, he's the QB of the future in NE. They hand JG some decent money up front -say $10M- but put off the bulk of big guaranteed bonuses for 2 years (meaning they start to come after next season). Brady has this year and next, that's it. And don't be shocked if he gets Tony Romoed next fall.

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I think this scenario is entirely possible. Good call. I highly doubt NE will let Garoppolo get away.

patfanken said:

3. Malcolm Butler - This is hard, because the thing is, you really don't HAVE to pay him. By giving him a first round tender, you already give him a very healthy raise, that is unlikely to be matched by another team. Butler has proven to be well worth a big money extention, but the cold fact is, why do it when you don't have to. It's not like he'd be making what he is this season, I don't know what the first round tender requires, but I'm sure it will be in the multiple millions.

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Blogged about 2017 RFA tenders here
Looking at the New England Patriots 2017 free agents – RFAs

If Malcolm Butler is tendered at the first round level, his 2017 salary will be between $3.817 and $3.999 million.

deroc5050 said:

who is going to replace Hightower?

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Take your pick. We can draft beckwith of LSU or foster of Alabama.

We can sign a free agent. I am pretty sure we could even trade for Mosley from Baltimore.

A few years ago people here thought mayo was irreplaceable.

It's not that tough a position to find guys.

Brady'sButtBoy said:

You heard it here first - Pats extend Jimmy G this offseason - part of the reason they've accumulated that excess cap space. He's going nowhere, he's the QB of the future in NE. They hand JG some decent money up front -say $10M- but put off the bulk of big guaranteed bonuses for 2 years (meaning they start to come after next season). Brady has this year and next, that's it. And don't be shocked if he gets Tony Romoed next fall.

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Completely possible, but after they make that move the Pats won't be able to remain as successful. They will have up and down years unless Jimmy G is elite like top 5 QB. Tom played with some pretty average teams and he made them good teams that always at the bare minimum won 10 games. And it was usually 12+ games. It will never be the same after Tom either retires or packs his bags and heads out to a Denver like team.

Jimmy G will not be able to win 12 games a year like Brady does with the lack of talent we have on D.

Miguel said:

If Gronk is active for all 16 games
Gronk's 2017 compensation is scheduled to be 5 million
2018 compensation - 9 million
2019 compensation - 10 million

Julius Thomas is the only tight end ($24.8 million) scheduled to receive more cash during those seasons. How much should Gronk receive during the next 3 seasons?

FWIW - Since he signed his extension in 2012 Gronk has missed 19 games. Therefore, he has been paid for 5 seasons but has played in less than four. Brady who has missed fewer games over a longer career was never extended with 3 seasons left on his contract. Tom Brady has been extended several times with two years left.

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If Gronk was just a "TE" this would make emminent sense. But Gronk is not only the best in-line TE in the league, he's also happens to be our best outside WR as well. Our best deep threat, because even when he's covered he's a bad match up most of the time, and our best GL option.

So what are the best WR's making? Say its in the 10-12 range (just a guess, btw) The best TE's are in the 8 range (as you point out) So isn't Gronk's versitility worth something extra as perhaps the most impactful non-QB offensive player in the league. The guy plays a key role in both the pass and run games, and is the player you know other teams have to make special adjustments to.

But like you said, he's missed a season's worth of games, and he's under contract for another 3 seasons after this one. So I guess you don't HAVE to do anything, but SHOULD you?

Miguel said:

Blogged about 2017 RFA tenders here
Looking at the New England Patriots 2017 free agents – RFAs

If Malcolm Butler is tendered at the first round level, his 2017 salary will be between $3.817 and $3.999 million.

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Thanks for this info and the link. So if the Pats tender him at a first round level, he'll get a significant raise ( over 600%). but well short of the market price for a top 10-15 (and perhaps better)CB.

I have no doubt someone would make Malcolm an 8-10MM offer, but not the offer PLUS a first round pick. So this is another case where the Pats don't have to give him more than $4MM for next year, but SHOULD they?

BTW- despite his small stature, Butler has shown he not only has good coverage skill, but he's GOT to be in the top 5 of CB's in his tackling ability.

Last question - Is it even in Butler's best interest to take a long term offer from the Pats? Take the 600% raise next season, and get the 8 figure contract in 2018 either here or somewhere.

Why would jimmy g want to sign a contract to sit on the bench for 3 more years or more? Why wouldn't ne just find another jimmy g? That's what the luxury of time affords you.

Seems like theres a lot of cap room, who can they sign who would make a difference and be affordable?

Brady'sButtBoy said:

You heard it here first - Pats extend Jimmy G this offseason - part of the reason they've accumulated that excess cap space. He's going nowhere, he's the QB of the future in NE. They hand JG some decent money up front -say $10M- but put off the bulk of big guaranteed bonuses for 2 years (meaning they start to come after next season). Brady has this year and next, that's it. And don't be shocked if he gets Tony Romoed next fall.

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Just out of curiosity, how do both player + team go about attempting to determine proper financial compensation at this point in time?

Is Garoppolo worth, say, 5m dollars a year, 10m dollars a year, or 20m dollars a year? Lots of gray area there. I think it would be quite difficult to try and come to an agreement right now. Just my opinion.