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We traded Collins. One game after the trade what are your thoughts?


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Jamie Collins wouldn't have fixed Logan Ryan's performance.
Jamie Collins wouldn't have fixed all the tackles Seattle broke.
Jamie Collins wouldn't have fixed the piss poor defensive line performance.
Jamie Collins wouldn't have fixed Matt Patricia's passive scheme.
Jamie Collins wouldn't have fixed the turnovers on offense.


I don't think Collins would have helped Chung in deep coverage, either.
 
Linebacker play is the least of our defense's issues. Weird schemes, bad DL play, and costly lapses in the secondary are the problem.
for the most part I agree but the Seahawks 3rd string RB just had a 153 total yards so I am not sure LB's are as good as some of us think
 
for the most part I agree but the Seahawks 3rd string RB just had a 153 total yards so I am not sure LB's are as good as some of us think

That 3rd string RB is a former WR, who should have had different players covering him on obvious passing downs (i.e. 3rd and 6). The problem there was scheme/personnel, not a lack of LB talent.
 
Please stop with the "But Collins would have....". It's embarrassing. What happened out there isn't anything that this team hasn't been showing with Collins on the team.

Part of this loss clearly rests with the coach/coaches. Look, it happens. Anyone who thought BB, as great as he is, doesn't make mistakes is silly. First up is their adjustment to the run game. The run D adjustment/improvement came too late. Same with the OL adjustment. The Patriots' offense was neutralized for too long due to a lack of sooner adjustment.

The end of half TD was appalling and a significant moment in the game. The Patriots had 8 guys in backwards leaning coverage yet the WR was WIDE open. I don't know who had the responsibility but that is a coverage that an also-also ran should be able to maintain. That was just awful awareness of the situation and the assignment.

When we tried the pass rush was ok - about what I'd expect. Wilson isn't to be blitzed with a careless approach. He's too elusive.

Patriots coaches think the coverage ability of their D is on the weaker end of the spectrum. They left the short to medium middle pretty open frequently. I understand that you don't want to give up big plays but when the totality of the game's path is going as it was, it was time to adjust. IMHO the adjustments came too late.

That was PI on the last play (you don't look back and you get almost zero slack for contact). However, that is how it is - refs don't make the advantageous call sometime. IMHO it was a bad call. Instead of over the head play why not to the outside shoulder of Gronk? No way that defender makes a play on it -- he was discombobulated and benefited from slowing down Gronk enough to disrupt the timing. Put that ball lower to the outside and it's pitch and catch.

Lessons learned hopefully -- move on from the silly talk of "if we just had Collins". The D was what it was and is what it is now with little variation. And when the O lags as it did last night the onus goes heavier on the D, a D that will be shaky against a good O.
 
Roberts looked identical on the wheel routes to every RB Collins' covered on them this season, including his 2 games in Cle. Trade had 0% to do with this loss. Probably less than 0%, if that's possible.
 
We give away a god damn starter for absolutely NOTHING!
****, get a corner or get Thomas..or something...god damn this team is pissing me off on defense!
 
Some message Bill sent to the defense by trading Collins away.
 
As much as there is a tendency to blame this loss on the trade of Collins it is difficult to see that evidence.. IMO the game was pretty evenly played.. total yards Seattle 420.. Pats 385, TOP Seattle 30:25.. Pats 29.35. Seattle gave up just about as many yards as did the Pats, was the Seattle defense bad also??

There are also two glaring turnovers one by Brady and one by Edelman.. usually in the NFL the team with the least amount of turnovers, has the highest chance of winning.
 
People saying that Collins wouldn't have been the difference in the game are not being realistic. The Seahawks running back killed the Patriots while catching the ball...Collins would have been a guy they could have used to cover him. He very well might have been the difference on a 3rd and long that was converted to the RB.
 
Roberts looked identical on the wheel routes to every RB Collins' covered on them this season, including his 2 games in Cle. Trade had 0% to do with this loss. Probably less than 0%, if that's possible.

Except that Collins is much faster and bigger than Roberts...so, yeah.
 
I don't think Collins would have helped Chung in deep coverage, either.
Anything beyond 15 yards of the LoS Chung is a liability in coverage.
 
Roberts got burned by Prosise for a couple of key plays. Could have been the difference.
 
If the scheme was the reason why Collins was screaming at Patricia then he was absolutely correct to do so.
 
Ive heard this said and i think it was BB, 'you don't trade or cut a player until you have found they're replacement' its obvious that collins replacement hasn't been found. I think this trade may not have played well in the locker room. Collins was liked and respected, trading like that just reinforced the idea that a player is just a number to the organization. In my life ive always done my job, but when ive known that i was appreciated i worked harder at it, and put more pride in doing it. So i would think the trade has had an affect (at least in the short term) on the team.
 
I'm wondering about the scheme, as well. But perhaps it's just due to the lack of talent to play man.

Two things that are killing this defense: lack of pass rush, and lack of capable CB's behind Butler. Cyrus Jones lack of development has screwed us big time.

The defense looked completely unprepared for this game. Numerous times they were out of position or rushing to get into position prior to a play. I blame that squarely on the Defensive coaching staff. The best part of this D is the ability to stuff the run at will and in this game they looked like they didn't have a clue against a mediocre rushing O.

What is truly bizarre for me is the penchant to want to play zone with a 2 or 3 man rush. The rush is seldom if ever going to get there and the zone is going to breakdown like all zones do if you give a QB time.....look no further than what happens when teams play zone against Brady and he gets that extra second or two.....he rips the zone apart. The talent (I say that tongue-in-cheek) of this secondary is playing man-to-man, they cannot cover in a zone (e.g. Patrick Chung on the TD at end of first half) when there is little to no chance the DL will get to the QB and he can sit back there and wait for a WR to get opened.

Again I blame that on the coaches for not putting their players in the best position to succeed.
 
I'll start by saying I don't think Collins would have been a difference maker last night.

At the same time the defense was atrocious last night. Getting rid of Collins, a solid starter and potential All Pro, didn't make it get any better.

So no, I don't think it was the difference last night, but I still hate the move.
 
I feel much the same as after Lawyer was sent to Buffalo. A one game disaster then, and then
marching to victories and a dynasty. Trust and keep cool. We love excitement and visible playmaking;
we can cheer and point and replay in our brain's camcorder great plays. We can't replay solid
systematic defensive team play; it's wins are boring with highlights only from the O.

Have faith and remember: "Some Days the Dragon Wins."
 
It's hard to justify the Jamie Collins Trade, the fact of the matter is Trading him away for Absolutely NOTHING weakens us and it showed last night. We Lost Two SB's with the Defense we fielded last night. We better hope we have the ball last to have a chance of winning against good Teams. We now have a Cardiac Defense!
 
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