OT: A Football Life: Jim Brown

The episodes this season have been very well done IMO, The Pat Tillman episode among the offerings.

Jim Brown's episode was particularly well done. It is on again tonight. Definitely worth a look if you have a moment. Just an impressive human being, even with the flaws they include in the program.

MassPats38 said:

The episodes this season have been very well done IMO, The Pat Tillman episode among the offerings.

Jim Brown's episode was particularly well done. It is on again tonight. Definitely worth a look if you have a moment. Just an impressive human being, even with the flaws they include in the program.

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BB said he was the GoAT.

Can't get any higher praise than that.

With his abuse towards women gotta wonder how different his legacy would be.

one of the great abusers of women.

robertweathers said:

BB said he was the GoAT.

Can't get any higher praise than that.

With his abuse towards women gotta wonder how different his legacy would be.

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Last season they definitely went for the melodramatic, almost looking for ways to deify the subject (the Faulk story was particularly painful to watch).

I hadn't heard about the abuse issues, but they did not come across as surprising given a character described as always ready for a fight and never knowing how to back down. Both athlete and actor relayed incidents of when he completely changed when another person seemed to be winning a game or argument. For a guy who showed up in the pre-Civil Rights Act era and never backed down to the crowd, that characteristic is likely the basis for the good and bad of who he was.

The domestic violence issues were discussed, but not exhaustively. This article gives more details. The closing quote is consistent with how he was described in terms of personality. I agree with that summary he would have likely had a very different (and briefer) career today if he didn't change his ways. A very important and impressive personality, but certainly flawed.

robertweathers said:

BB said he was the GoAT.

Can't get any higher praise than that.

With his abuse towards women gotta wonder how different his legacy would be.

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Bill has also said that LT was the best and I would agree with that if we could also include TB12.

You cannot be the GOAT after abusing women, sorry, I just cannot accept that. This is also another reason why I love TB12 because of his personality and attitude off the field, the guy is a class act in every sense, he's always very humble and thankful. He is the perfect example for kids too follow in my opinion.

PatsFan92 said:

Bill has also said that LT was the best and I would agree with that if we could also include TB12.

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When I was a freshman, we played North Carolina and Lawrence Taylor was their star defensive player.

I had never and have not seen since a player of his skill, strength, speed and intensity. He was beyond awesome, and beyond intimidating,

I never saw brown play and I know the film does not do the player justice, but in my opinion Taylor is a different level of beast. We may never see another like him again.

Ochmed Jones said:

When I was a freshman, we played North Carolina and Lawrence Taylor was their star defensive player.

I had never and have not seen since a player of his skill, strength, speed and intensity. He was beyond awesome, and beyond intimidating,

I never saw brown play and I know the film does not do the player justice, but in my opinion Taylor is a different level of beast. We may never see another like him again.

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LT literally changed the game. opposing teams had to completely alter their gameplan just for LT like for example blocking schemes and formations. I know that he had issues off the field with drugs and what not. However, can you imagine how much better he could have been without those unfortunate distractions. I also think he is a real nice guy and that is important for me when I choose my best players. LT and TB12 in my opinion are the best players to ever play the game of football.

Its funny that LT said if he could come back and sack one player, it would be TB12.

The concern about the treatment of women around here in light of the reaction by some here to a recent political election is ironic, to say the least.

Can't get behind that type of person. Continuing to idolize this type of person contributes to the marginalization of women. It's 2016. We should be at a point where beating women should matter more.

PatsFan92 said:

You cannot be the GOAT after abusing women, sorry, I just cannot accept that. This is also another reason why I love TB12 because of his personality and attitude off the field, the guy is a class act in every sense, he's always very humble and thankful. He is the perfect example for kids too follow in my opinion.

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i'm sure GOAT refers to greatest of all time 'player'. not a greatest of all time 'nice guy'.

athletes aren't role models. they play sports. jim brown is the greatest RB of all time.

PatsFan92 said:

You cannot be the GOAT after abusing women, sorry, I just cannot accept that. This is also another reason why I love TB12 because of his personality and attitude off the field, the guy is a class act in every sense, he's always very humble and thankful. He is the perfect example for kids too follow in my opinion.

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What do you or anybody really know about Brady for him to be a role model for kids to follow? Be very careful with that line of thinking. I am not saying anything derogatory about Brady. I am saying we only know what he wants us to know.

I remember him on the TV at the Elks club when I went with my old man. He would point out the great players so I'd remember.

Ochmed Jones said:

When I was a freshman, we played North Carolina and Lawrence Taylor was their star defensive player.

I had never and have not seen since a player of his skill, strength, speed and intensity. He was beyond awesome, and beyond intimidating,

I never saw brown play and I know the film does not do the player justice, but in my opinion Taylor is a different level of beast. We may never see another like him again.

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Lawrence Taylor was the most disruptive defensive player in NFL history.

I'd encourage the younger football fans to watch a full game during his prime and see how the offense dealt with him. The kind of attention he received was astounding. He was a bad man

vuudu said:

What do you or anybody really know about Brady for him to be a role model for kids to follow? Be very careful with that line of thinking. I am not saying anything derogatory about Brady. I am saying we only know what he wants us to know.

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Right... but with Jim Brown we actually know that he whooped that ass.

I saw Brown many times when I was in high school. He was practically unstoppable. He was faster, stronger, smarter and more elusive than anyone else. In fact, he was so good, that he was the most important member of the offense, not the quarterback. The quarterback (Frank Ryan or Milt Plumb--neither HOFers) just gave Brown the ball and let him run, maybe 30 times a game. You can see some of his power in the TV show, but it's just a small sample. He did it year after year, game after game and brought championships to his team. The negative stuff came years later, so it was easy to admire him when he played. He quit at the age of 28, leaving every Brown's fan astonished and dismayed. And to this day, the Browns have not regained the stature they had in his day.

MassPats38 said:

Last season they definitely went for the melodramatic, almost looking for ways to deify the subject (the Faulk story was particularly painful to watch).

I hadn't heard about the abuse issues, but they did not come across as surprising given a character described as always ready for a fight and never knowing how to back down. Both athlete and actor relayed incidents of when he completely changed when another person seemed to be winning a game or argument. For a guy who showed up in the pre-Civil Rights Act era and never backed down to the crowd, that characteristic is likely the basis for the good and bad of who he was.

The domestic violence issues were discussed, but not exhaustively. This article gives more details. The closing quote is consistent with how he was described in terms of personality. I agree with that summary he would have likely had a very different (and briefer) career today if he didn't change his ways. A very important and impressive personality, but certainly flawed.

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Today, black pro athletes enjoy far more support, far less discrimination. In the sixties, black people were taking on racism head on.

PatsFan92 said:

You cannot be the GOAT after abusing women, sorry, I just cannot accept that

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Not to sound like an advocate for domestic violence but in theory you could be the best football player off all time and be a ****ing ass hole off the field.

yeah TB is extremely image conscious, he appears to be a good guy though. I would be surprised if he was an *******.

deroc5050 said:

Not to sound like an advocate for domestic violence but in theory you could be the best football player off all time and be a ****ing ass hole off the field.

yeah TB is extremely image conscious, he appears to be a good guy though. I would be surprised if he was an *******.

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Ty Cobb, Pete Rose, OJ...vastly different levels of trouble, but not related to their prowess in sports.

Not to be a blabbermouth or anything, but the worst I've heard about Tom is that he had difficulty adjusting in '02 to going from a mostly anonymous, young, simple guy with a bunch of sisters and no girlfriend, to being as much or even more sought after by young girls as Jim Craig, or the Beatles, in a matter of months. It seriously bothered him to the point that he was a bit paranoid, even when trying to shower within the new stadium.

First, I completely understand it. Second, I don't hold it against him. If a female employee at Gillette was there minding her own business and doing her job and got unfairly targeted or yelled at, I'm sorry but there's no way I'm blaming Tom.

Mainefan said:

I saw Brown many times when I was in high school. He was practically unstoppable. He was faster, stronger, smarter and more elusive than anyone else. In fact, he was so good, that he was the most important member of the offense, not the quarterback. The quarterback (Frank Ryan or Milt Plumb--neither HOFers) just gave Brown the ball and let him run, maybe 30 times a game. You can see some of his power in the TV show, but it's just a small sample. He did it year after year, game after game and brought championships to his team. The negative stuff came years later, so it was easy to admire him when he played. He quit at the age of 28, leaving every Brown's fan astonished and dismayed. And to this day, the Browns have not regained the stature they had in his day.

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Jim was the consummate competitor. He always bothered Bill Russell after they retired, saying "I'm gonna beat you on the golf course!" and he did, while Russ giggled along with it.

Along with other black celebrities, Jim took tremendous responsibility for setting an example and doing everything he could to help African Americans go in the right direction. Just think about it. Like spitting in the ocean, right? I think the boundless courage and effort he displayed over many years is more important than his personal problems. Not defending domestic violence either.

Cosby's shtick was off-putting to me personally, and I found his 80's show unwatchable, but I get the weight of responsibility he felt in trying to lead people. That he turned out to be a closet case was zero surprise to me, for personal reasons, but I still try to appreciate the good moral values he espoused and live by the message. The Bill Cosby Show from the early 70's was really cool. My daughter loved Fat Albert, too.