Who is lying - Jamie Collins or Mike lombardi

Wheelman said:

Bill Belichick has said before he wouldn't know who blew the coverage for another team. And so like how would an outsider like Lombardi know for sure? He doesn't. Sure he might have a better understanding but it's his opinion. So I'm going to take his comments with a grain of salt.

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BB would never single out a player on his team or another team. He's only done it a few times in his career (Fred-Ex, Eagles). Seriously, do you think BB doesn't know who blew a coverage.

SEA_Pat said:

Why do you guys find it so absurd that a multi-millionaire athlete like Jamie Collins wouldn't pay attention to and know some old white dude who wanders around the facility but is not one of his coaches? How many people on the Patriots would recognize Ernie Adams for example?

The problem with parsing comments through the press is that everyone takes what's said at face value, without context and without realizing that often the writers are trying to add spin at the same time. Similar to the way Lombardi has been saying that our defense is not good, he's trying to get listeners for his new podcast, he's trying to raise his profile on Fox, so of course he adds a good dose of hyperbole to what he says, otherwise it gets lost in the noise.

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Probably all of them. I agree with your point, but I think Ernie is a bad example. He's definitely gotten some notoriety over the last few years, probably because we get accused of cheating a lot and no one knows exactly what this guy does.

scout said:

BB would never single out a player on his team or another team. He's only done it a few times in his career (Fred-Ex, Eagles). Seriously, do you think BB doesn't know who blew a coverage.

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Of course he doesn't, he doesn't know who was responsible for it. Does he coach the opposing team too? Or are you saying BB is spying on them and the fuhrer should roll out spygate II?

A great example is the Gronk TD against the Bills. Go check out the Bills forum, some of them are saying the safety bit on the inside route. Others are saying the Safety was in man coverage against Edelman. If you're on the outside, you don't know. BB explained this before to the media, you don't know who's responsible for who. You don't know what the call was. All you know is the coverage was blown.

Don't care .........

I think both are true, Lombardi said it and Collins doesnt remember it or Lombardi.

Ivan said:

I think both are true, Lombardi said it and Collins doesnt remember it or Lombardi.

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Agreed. Odds are he was playing on his Xbox during the team mtg while Lombardi was talking, so there was no way he could reasonably be expected to remember it.

If you want the answer go to SEA-pat's post. To most players anyone other than the coaches and trainers they deal with day to day are pretty much strangers. Besides Lombardi was only here a year or two, so it wasn't like he was around for the last 4 years. I can easily see Collin's having some upper management guy making a comment to him in a meeting without know (or caring) who he was.

Sea-Pat also made a great point on Lombardi. He's in the media with podcasts to promote and trying to get face time on Fox and in talk radio. For all those guys, the key word is hyperbole. When he calls the defense "not good", he creates a ripple. They all do it.

When it comes to mediots, especially those who have been in the game, you have to look for the GERM OF TRUTH inside the hyperbole. And what I'm getting is that consistency has ALWAYS been a issue for Collins, even if we fans didn't know it. Clearly he had Lawrence Taylor-like skills, and just as clearly, he didn't have Taylor's consistent fierce intensity. The public saw only the ups, or flash plays, and in 2014 and 15 there were enough of them to create the perception that Collins was a great player with enormous skills. The reality was that statement was only half true. There is no doubting he enormous skills, but if you were coaching him, his lack of consistency didn't make him a great player....merely a good one.

I think the Pats could deal with the player he was in 2014 and 15, because there were enough of those flash plays to make up for the inconsistencies. However something happened this year, and whatever it was, it caused the inconsistent Collins to become more pronounced, and the flash play Collins to diminish. In the end both sides were unhappy with the situation and the trade was a way to get something for an asset rather than nothing.

It will be interesting to see what Collins does in Cleveland. Of course there will be teams who will fall in love with the physical freak Collins is, but he is going to have to show that he can consistently be dominant, or he can kiss that really BIG money good bye. Teams are now going to pour over all of Collins' tapes this off season and see if Lombardi's claims are correct and make Collins' big money contract more about production and less about guarantees.

It is most likely they know him by a nickname. Collins is the type of guy who just goes out and ball. He is not all about watching game and studying all that **** and knowing who is who. He just play and ball man.

maybe they were both telling the truth as they see it ?

robertweathers said:

Collins. Hes been deflecting since the trade. He said he didn't even know Lombardi which is a crock of ka-ka

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maybe he thought they were asking him about the other Lombardi (Vince)

The Collins situation reminds me somewhat of what happened with LaVar Arrington down here in Washington about a decade ago. He was a dominating linebacker who could make the highlight film plays, but he started to freelance too often and got in Joe Gibbs' doghouse. He ended up buying his way out of his Washington contract and signing with the Giants, but injuries aborted his career.

Does any body think that Lombardi is taking on the role of spin merchant for Patriots given his long friendship with Belichick? I would not be surprised if Lombardi got a heads up about the trade giving him enough time to get his spiel ready.
I do not know if Lombardi is speaking the truth or if Collins is. I have met or heard of some amazing liars in my life time, so nothing would surprise me.

IndianPat said:

Does any body think that Lombardi is taking on the role of spin merchant for Patriots given his long friendship with Belichick? I would not be surprised if Lombardi got a heads up about the trade giving him enough time to get his spiel ready.
I do not know if Lombardi is speaking the truth or if Collins is. I have met or heard of some amazing liars in my life time, so nothing would surprise me.

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Given that BB could have said something that (more politely) amounted to "Lombardi hasn't been in our locker room, so take what he says on this with a grain of salt" or could have just blown off the question, but instead said something along the lines of "Lombardi is a smart guy, he helped me a lot while he was here, and he knows his stuff", it seems pretty clear to me that BB is at a minimum endorsing what Lombardi said.

Wheelman said:

Of course he doesn't, he doesn't know who was responsible for it. Does he coach the opposing team too? Or are you saying BB is spying on them and the fuhrer should roll out spygate II?

A great example is the Gronk TD against the Bills. Go check out the Bills forum, some of them are saying the safety bit on the inside route. Others are saying the Safety was in man coverage against Edelman. If you're on the outside, you don't know. BB explained this before to the media, you don't know who's responsible for who. You don't know what the call was. All you know is the coverage was blown.

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???

Players, coaches and fans can often figure out who's responsible for a blown coverage.

It's not rocket science, even when Patricia's calling the plays.

Wheelman said:

So you're saying there's a lot of idiots around the NYJFL*. For that we can agree.

Bill Belichick has said before he wouldn't know who blew the coverage for another team. And so like how would an outsider like Lombardi know for sure? He doesn't. Sure he might have a better understanding but it's his opinion. So I'm going to take his comments with a grain of salt.

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I think you are underestimating the relationship between Lombardi and BB. I think they still talk a ton and while Lombardi is most probably exaggarting things to get a steady gig on the national media circus I think his opinion is much closer to BB's than anyone else out there. He has been around BB a lot and kinda knows what the core ideas of gameplans against certain archetypical QBs and specific defenses are.

While some took BBs comments on Lombardi ("you gott ask Mike, he is a smart guy") during that press conference for sarcasm I actually understood them at face value and didn't see any sarcasm in it.

Obvious explanation is that neither is lying. Lombardi tried to tell Collins to step it up and lead the defense to be better, just as he said he did. Collins paid so little attention he didn't/doesn't even know who Lombardi is, just as he said. This might also explain why the defense wasn't better, and why Collins is gone.

I think that where you stand on releasing Collins comes down to whether or not you buy the Belichick philosophy of Do Your job or whether you think it's all about athletic ability. Belichick clearly values athletic ability and drafted Jones, Easley, and Collins based on their athletic ability, but if they won't do their jobs in terms of doing what's asked on each play then they become unreliable and start creating opportunities for opposing teams to make big plays.i don't believe he likes getting rid of talent but there's a point where he has to make decisions based upon what will serve them best and getting everyone on the same page overrules athletic ability.

scout said:

Seriously, do you think BB doesn't know who blew a coverage.

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Dude shows up to work at 5 everyday. He has more than just general knowledge of the performance of the 53+ employees he supervises not to mention what he knows about the rest of the players in the league. The guy is married to his job.

mihap said:

Bingo. That was my point. So Lombardi told that he spoke to Jamie in mettings. And Jamie dont know the guy. He dont know the guy who is there in the meetings and talking to him??????

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Might this be the Collins problem attention deficit disorder?

Ivan said:

I think that where you stand on releasing Collins comes down to whether or not you buy the Belichick philosophy of Do Your job or whether you think it's all about athletic ability. Belichick clearly values athletic ability and drafted Jones, Easley, and Collins based on their athletic ability, but if they won't do their jobs in terms of doing what's asked on each play then they become unreliable and start creating opportunities for opposing teams to make big plays.i don't believe he likes getting rid of talent but there's a point where he has to make decisions based upon what will serve them best and getting everyone on the same page overrules athletic ability.

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Where did we hear BB complain "I can't get these guys to play the way I want them to play?"