PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

borg said:

My 2 cents
In the past few games, it's been the Hightower show and my only recollection of Collins' work was the terrible angles the LB took when targeting RBs that were able to turn the corner and head up the sidelines. I'm a casual watcher but his poor angles really stuck out.
My best guess, Collins probably being too vocal in the locker room regarding his contract and we know how BB hates distractions....see Randy Moss and his contract antics.
In summary:
Less than inspiring play + big contract demands + distraction = one way ticket to The Mistake by the Lake

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I've noticed some poor plays, out of position stuff, by Collins this year, but I'm not sure its more than any other year. His freakish athleticism stands out, and will be missed. I cant help but think with all that is coming out today that there was an attitude issue, and it was beginning to translate to the field.
If not, dumb to trade him. Half a season on a SB contender for a very good player is more important than a pick, but if the attitude was the issue, there is an element of addition by subtraction too, particularly with the way this team is coached.

WTF is this? What? Of all the trades that could have happened this would have been bottom 5 of expected. What the ****ing hell?

There goes another jersey out to pasture...First Jones now Collins..

He was one of my favorites....sucks

Sorry, but I can't wade through 39 pages, but after the first 8 I get the drift. No question that it is a SHOCKER, and I'm trying to wrap my head around what just happened. Here are my thoughts in no particular order.

1. I'm not surprised the Pats were willing to part ways with him. I have opined on several occasions that I thought Collins would be very tough to re-sign because I had heard he wasn't that happy living more than half the year in New England. I think the Pats knew this too and realized that this was his last year here. It was kind of similar to the Revis situation, where the Pats would never pay a premium over value for a player simply to get him to stay where he wasn't happy.

2. So I'm not so surprised he's gone, as I am about the compensation. In the end it's going to be a pick in the late 90's and that seems awful low ......at first.

3. Remember there is also a lot of risk for the Browns, since they are giving up the pick for what might be just 8 games of service. They are obviously hoping to sell him on the rebuild, and the fact he will be paid top dollar to play there.

4. So while the value of the player is at a first or second round level of compensation, the buyer is taking a huge risk that what he gives the Pats will be totally wasted if Collins doesn't sign with them.

5. And there is the quality of play issue. There have been several posters who wondered where Collins was for several games this season. The fact was that when he flashed, he flashed big time, but it wasn't as consistent as last season. To the level that now it is coming out that BB was actually unhappy about the number of times his freelancing hurt the defense.

6. Collins believed (and maybe rightfully so) that this defensive system inhibits his talents to make individual plays. He has seen the example of what CJones is doing in AZ in a defense designed to let him rush the passer. Jones is piling up stats, even though the Cardinals are having trouble piling up wins. So it was ANOTHER reason for him not to resign here

7. I felt Bill was comfortable making this deal for a couple of reasons:

a. While there is no way to believe the defense will be better without Collins, in Bill's mind, the drop off won't be nearly as bad as most people think. Remember in NE the sum is ALWAYS greater the its individual parts.

b. Think about this comparison - This offense is deeper and more diverse than the offense of 2011 that got us to a Superbowl, while this defense, even without Collins, is SIGNIFICANTLY better than its counterpart in 2011.

c. So while the "sky is falling" for the mediots, Bill coldly calculated Collins' contribution and if that critically damaged the kind of defense HE believed was necessary to win a Superbowl with this offense and ST's.

d. I believe that for a lot of reasons, (some of which we discussed) Bill was unhappy with Collins' play and attitude this season. I'm guessing that for THIS season, Jamie had not been as coachable as he had been in the past.

e. Who knows that when the season is over and Collins becomes a FA, there will be no team with more cap space than the Pats, and if not Collins than some other high end FA.

f. In the end it was BB's belief that the Pats without Collins and a pick in the late 90's in 2017 were better than the Pats with Collins for the rest of the year and a pick in the 130's in 2018.

8. My biggest concern is NOT the loss of Collins for the rest season. I think we can overcome that. I am more concerned with how this plays out in the locker room. We shall see.

Deus Irae said:

Wouldn't it be great if, just once, BB said something like "Yeah, it's a deal that's bad for the team, but I hate that bastard and I wanted him out of here"?

That would be message board and talk show fodder for weeks, if not longer.

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He talked about how bad he thought the defense has been (I guess in his opinion). That's probably about as close as we're going to get.

patfanken said:

Remember there is also a lot of risk for the Browns, since they are giving up the pick for what might be just 8 games of service. They are obviously hoping to sell him on the rebuild, and the fact he will be paid top dollar to play there.

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Don't see much risk for the Browns. If he doesnt work out he might still net them a compensatory pick unless they go on a FA spending spree. They might have essentially just moved their pick back in time by a year.

I'm pissed that BB waited to trade him until after the Browns had played the Jets.

pwes said:

WTF is this? What? Of all the trades that could have happened this would have been bottom 5 of expected. What the ****ing hell?

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Interesting post, so I looked at it literally, just out of curiousity.

Brady
JAG
Gronk
Edelman
Hightower
McCourty
Butler
Chung
Brown

I'd consider all of the above to be bigger surprises, for various reasons.

Deus Irae said:

Interesting post, so I looked at it literally, just out of curiousity.

Brady
JAG
Gronk
Edelman
Hightower
McCourty
Butler
Chung
Brown

I'd consider all of the above to be bigger surprises, for various reasons.

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You could add Gronk to that list.

KontradictioN said:

He talked about how bad he thought the defense has been (I guess in his opinion). That's probably about as close as we're going to get.

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He did give us one indication, which came in response to a question about the other LB moves. He made it as clear as he was ever going to that this was not a "we can replace him" scenario. He also intimated that signability was a factor.

pwes said:

WTF is this? What? Of all the trades that could have happened this would have been bottom 5 of expected. What the ****ing hell?

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My thoughts exactly, in 1993, when...oh, never mind.

rochrist said:

You could add Gronk to that list.

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He's number 3 on that list

(A) Unlikely BB and staff don't have a comfort level for other players to take over JC's production. (B) End of December we will know if the plan is a good one or BB and staff had their heads up their asses on replacing JC's production. (C) As we have seen before BB and staff will definitely trade players they will not re-sign. (D) As we have seen before BB has no problem sending a seemingly untouchable talent packing, in part, as a wake up call (do 'they' again hate their coach on this trade?)

The good news: Collins didn't seem to be thriving this year. Can't see how we'll regress much with his departure. Plus it is not guaranteed we'll get something for him.
The bad news: Collins previously demonstrated a top tier talent that will now never be activated/realized for 2016's SB run (as I had been hoping would be the case).

Just got through all 38 pages of the game thread, eh, I mean trade thread.

I read this article early during training camp. Pretty fascinating in general.
This Green Beret thinks he can crack the NFL's character code

But this part stuck out at the time -- and has been going through my head since I first started reading this thread:

Before they parted in Indy, Decker asked Belichick what player trait he struggled most to predict. Belichick's answer was as blunt as it was revealing about realities in the NFL. Here was a head coach with four Super Bowl rings, with a quarterback who plays for less than market value, who has created an entire methodology based on common sacrifice and submission of ego -- a coach with more leverage than any other in the NFL -- telling Decker he had trouble finding players willing to buy in.

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Belichick's history here is pretty clear; we've had nearly 17 years with him around here. Belichick would rather have average talent which listens and buys in, as opposed to elite talent which doesn't listen and buy in. We've had:
- Glenn in 2001
- Thomas in 2009
- Moss in 2010
- Meriweather and Haynesworth in 2011
- Easley earlier in 2016

With the stories coming out about Collins freelancing and getting into heated arguments with the coaching staff (presumably over playing style, assignments, or playing time), trading Collins fits right in with that pattern. Thomas is the one guy in that group who wasn't cut or suspended in-season (excepting Easley who wasn't in the role of team leader), and I'm thinking Belichick regrets that as it's the only team that didn't rebound from the situation.

Also of note, the best return the Patriots got for that were the 3rd rounders for Glenn and Moss. Sucks we got a similar crappy return for Collins, but to me it says that they think the team would have been worse off with Collins on it than off and they'd be prepared to cut him if needed. Crazy, I did not see this coming at all....

borg said:

My 2 cents
In the past few games, it's been the Hightower show and my only recollection of Collins' work was the terrible angles the LB took when targeting RBs that were able to turn the corner and head up the sidelines. I'm a casual watcher but his poor angles really stuck out.
My best guess, Collins probably being too vocal in the locker room regarding his contract and we know how BB hates distractions....see Randy Moss and his contract antics.
In summary:
Less than inspiring play + big contract demands + distraction = one way ticket to The Mistake by the Lake

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And honestly, of the two, Hightower was the better player and the one you would want to keep. But I still can't get over getting only a 3rd for him.

FreeTedWilliams said:

Y'all realize that most likely the Pats will send a higher draft pick to the Eagles for Eric Rowe, than they will get from Cleveland for Jaime Collins......

Think about that for a second....

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jamie must of said something really bad to bill/MP

I don't get it either, but you've gotta go with Belichick's judgement on this one. He's playing 150 dimensional chess.

ViperGTS said:

He's number 3 on that list

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He probably meant "put him on the list twice"...just for emphasis...ya know?

People trying to downplay Collins performance this year and certainly his ability are lying to themselves. This is ****ing nuts.