Jimmy's Value

AzorianPats said:

How many winning seasons Bradford has?

Click to expand...

How many winning seasons has Garropolo had?
Bradford was drafted by a terrible team with no talent around him.
Your comment was 'shown promise' not been a winning QB.

AndyJohnson said:

How many winning seasons has Garropolo had?
Bradford was drafted by a terrible team with no talent around him.
Your comment was 'shown promise' not been a winning QB.

Click to expand...

What promise did Bradford show in Philly to warrant being traded for a 1st and third round pick?

Listen its 1 game, I agree with not getting carried away with JG. But if sunday night what Jimmy gonna look like the next month, we should get at least the same value Philly did with Bradford, considering the contracts, if thats what BB chooses to do.

sb1 said:

Very true but Jimmy is only a year away himself. A team would basically be giving a first rounder for a one year rental with still a lot of question marks. Nobody knows how good Jimmy really is and we still won't after 4 games. If he plays 16 like Cassel did - and obviously nobody wants to see that - we will have a better idea. I value NFL experience over your track record as a prospect.

I just can't see a team being that stupid.

And as I said people talked about how much Mallett was going to bring back and it didn't exactly work that way so that is jading in this case as well.

Click to expand...

Sam Bradford is an expensive garbage... Has only another year and was traded for a 1st and 4th ... Vikings do have a nice QB and paid a steep price for him (Bradford).

As noted by others several teams have had nothing but mediocre-at-best to absolute crap QBs. Trading a 1st for JG after 4 quality start NFL games is less a gamble at this point than selecting a college QB with that 1st whose never played in the NFL. Absent an available Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck (who appears overrated now) caliber college QB it would make perfect sense for a team to give up a first. Again that's all dependent whether JG keeps up the solid play and poise.

AndyJohnson said:

No its not when 3 sucked and got benched. How many started last week?
Those 3 guys are proof the Patriots have NOT developed a QB anyone would want.

So wait, you have now decided the Garropolo is better than Goff because Goff sat game 1, while Garropolo played pretty well in game 1 of year 3?

You seem to think that Garropolo became a cant miss in 1 game?

Click to expand...

Can you relax? I mean at all?

At this moment in time Garoppolo IS an NFL starting QB that won @Arizona against most if not all odds.
At the same point in time Goff's coach is saying he is not yet ready to play in NFL.
Is it really so difficult to understand that JG at the moment IS better value than Goff? I can't believe its even a discussion. But anything to jump at someone, isn't it?

The point was the value of JG - if he plays another 3 on approx. the same level.
Like Ken said a few pages back, the fact that JG was a back-up for two years and was groomed gradually in one of the best franchise and coaching environments - adds to his value. Isn't that simple enough?

And you want to argue ad absurdum again that #1 pick is more valuable than a potential franchise QB that is not only prepared to immediately start in NFL but actually HAS started and won the most unlikely contest - and then he shows it three more times?

And isn't it painfully obvious even to you that good part of the league is struggling for years to find a good let alone franchise QB - and they had many #1 picks between them ...

And you see - that was the point of the argument you jumped on.

AzorianPats said:

What promise did Bradford show in Philly to warrant being traded for a 1st and third round pick?

Click to expand...

Enough that warranted being traded for a first and third.
He is a good QB who hadn't stayed healthy.

Listen its 1 game, I agree with not getting carried away with JG. But if sunday night what Jimmy gonna look like the next month, we should get at least the same value Philly did with Bradford, considering the contracts, if thats what BB chooses to do.

Click to expand...

ifs and buts aren't candy and nuts

long distance said:

Can you relax? I mean at all?

At this moment in time Garoppolo IS an NFL starting QB that won @Arizona against most if not all odds.
At the same point in time Goff's coach is saying he is not yet ready to play in NFL.
Is it really so difficult to understand that JG at the moment IS better value than Goff? I can't believe its even a discussion. But anything to jump at someone, isn't it?

The point was the value of JG - if he plays another 3 on approx. the same level.
Like Ken said a few pages back, the fact that JG was a back-up for two years and was groomed gradually in one of the best franchise and coaching environments - adds to his value. Isn't that simple enough?

And you want to argue ad absurdum again that #1 pick is more valuable than a potential franchise QB that is not only prepared to immediately start in NFL but actually HAS started and won the most unlikely contest - and then he shows it three more times?

And isn't it painfully obvious even to you that good part of the league is struggling for years to find a good let alone franchise QB - and they had many #1 picks between them ...

And you see - that was the point of the argument you jumped on.

Click to expand...

Why would you think I am not relaxed?
Against all odds? The biggest impediment was him at QB instead of Brady.
Do you think Goff was drafted to play week 1 of his rookie season?
Was garropolo ready week 1 as a rookie?

I dispute that coming from New England adds to his value. It hasn't added to any other QBs value.

Your condition that garropolo is a franchise QB is where the problem lies.
You are calling garapolo a franchise QB after one game. He is not.

Cassell never once looked as good as Garoppolo looked on Sunday, and we're talking about two totally different levels of player here

Again - JG was project as, at WORST, a 4th round pick, and a lot of people had him going in the 2nd. If the market was considered to be that high for a guy who nobody knew could play NFL level football, a 4 game audition, one of which was an opening night win on the road against a top caliber playoff team, is absolutely enough for a team to decide giving up a hit-or-miss 1st if they need a quarterback.

The only hesitancy I might have is that the pats system has such a reputation for success, that GMs might wonder how much of that win was coaching and playcalling, but if he was on a lesser team it wouldn't even be a question.

But we're way ahead of ourselves here, it's going to be dependent on how the next three weeks pan out. He could throw 3 picks against Miami and get sacked 5 times.

AndyJohnson said:

Enough that warranted being traded for a first and third.
He is a good QB who hadn't stayed healthy.


ifs and buts aren't candy and nuts

Click to expand...

Bradford a losing Qb thats made of glass..and that's what he netted!

Imagine Jimmy's value???

AzorianPats said:

Bradford a losing Qb thats made of glass..and that's what he netted!

Imagine Jimmy's value???

Click to expand...

Bradford has started over 60 games. Jimmy has started 1.
NFL decision makers obviously have a different opinion of Bradford who was the first pick in a draft and was stuck on awful teams than you do.

Grizzafted said:

Cassell never once looked as good as Garoppolo looked on Sunday, and we're talking about two totally different levels of player here

Click to expand...

Eh, I don't know about that. Cassel had more than his share of flashes. I thought he was playing great ball later in the year... he did light up the Dolphins in Miami and the NFC Champion Cardinals at Foxboro...IIRC he threw for 400+ yards 3 times in a row that season when at the time even Brady had never done that.

Garoppolo did look good for his first week but let's not overstate it - he clearly had the reins on him and the downgrade at QB did not go unnoticed.

AzorianPats said:

Bradford a losing Qb thats made of glass..and that's what he netted!

Imagine Jimmy's value???

Click to expand...

Yes, not a first rounder unless a team is monumentally stupid enough to hand over one.

I know if that was the Pats looking for a QB and we paid a first rounder for a Garoppolo, I can't say I'd be happy about it....

AndyJohnson said:

Your condition that garropolo is a franchise QB is where the problem lies.
You are calling garapolo a franchise QB after one game. He is not.

Click to expand...

Yep.

And if Bill believes Garoppolo is a franchise QB then I guarantee at this moment he is on the phone talking to other teams about Tom, who (unlike Garoppolo) actually WILL fetch a first rounder in any trade.

I suspect BB has a different opinion.

sb1 said:

Yep.

And if Bill believes Garoppolo is a franchise QB then I guarantee at this moment he is on the phone talking to other teams about Tom, who (unlike Garoppolo) actually WILL fetch a first rounder in any trade.

I suspect BB has a different opinion.

Click to expand...

There is no way on earth Bill belichick is shopping tom Brady

AndyJohnson said:

There is no way on earth Bill belichick is shopping tom Brady

Click to expand...

Hence "I suspect BB has a different opinion".....

Grizzafted said:

Cassell never once looked as good as Garoppolo looked on Sunday, and we're talking about two totally different levels of player here

Click to expand...

Eh, by season's end he looked as good.

sb1 said:

Yep.

And if Bill believes Garoppolo is a franchise QB then I guarantee at this moment he is on the phone talking to other teams about Tom, who (unlike Garoppolo) actually WILL fetch a first rounder in any trade.

I suspect BB has a different opinion.

Click to expand...

No way is Bill shopping Tom as with his new contract he would count 23 million against the cap in dead money. Only way you make that trade is for something absurd like 2 firsts and 2 seconds and no one is giving that up for a nearly 40 year old GOAT or no. QB's are insanely overvalued in this league. Every year the top one or two prospects go top 5 when they are maybe one of the top 20 players. Oh yeah and they cost multiple firsts to trade up for.

All most people are saying is that if Jimmy continues to look competent for the next 3 games, not based on one good game, then his value as a starting capable QB in a desperate league is at least a high, top 15, first. He is a much better gamble then the usual maybe they will maybe they won't rookie QB. Oh yeah and you can build around him right away cuz the rookie mistakes are learned. With one more cheap year on his contract this off-season is the perfect time to trade him as his value will never be higher.

IIRC it was reported that the chief's first was on the table for Cassell but Bill turned it down so that was the price for in essence a controlled FA that did not have the pedigree GROP has. Granted he had 15 games of tape versus 4 but my point remains a first is the MINIMUM we can expect and if a team is desperate enough it could be a 1st and 4th or 1st and 2nd the following year based on play. Anything less than that and I believe Bill hangs on to him and gets another year of solid back up out of him

I am curious will a lot of people be really mad if Jimmy is not traded and we carry him for the nest 2 years? I mean sure we lose out on draft capital which is never fun but wouldn't it be nice to have that extra security to know we have till 2018 FA to see how things look. Keep in mine Brady will be 40 next year and by the time the NFL season starters in 2018 he will be 41. But at that point it would not be a stretch if Brady is the single oldest player in the NFL.

AzorianPats said:

If the Jimmy we seen in week 1 is the one we get the next 3 games, JG becomes untradable in my eyes.

You don't trade franchise QB's.

Click to expand...

Well Brady is signed through 2019 and Garoppolo through 2017 so what would you do?

AzorianPats said:

Cassel did, but I don't remember Cassel going into a possible SB contender stadium on the road, and have the type of poise JG did. There's things to work on with JG, but for his first career professional start, he was awesome.

Not to mention, the expectations for Cassel, and 7th rd guy that was a backup all throughout college was different than a guy like Jimmy.

Click to expand...

Cassel beat a Cardinals team that made the Super Bowl 47-7 in 2008.