OT: Cavs vs. Warriors (Who Wins the NBA Finals?)

wolverinejoe80 said:

never played basketball before? fall like that hurts head to toe. and bron is a big guy. i recently landed on my butt playing a pick up game. it still hurts.

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"Never played basketball before?"?? or should you ask "Have you ever flopped while playing basketball?" that would be the more accurate question.

Please don't tell me that your butt hurts. I really don't want to know.

I don't hate Lebron. Great player. Delivered a title to Cleveland. All good stuff. He is a drama queen though. I'm just having fun with it.

People here shredding the Lebron/Brady comparisons acting like they wouldn't be talking s**t about Brady if he had all his success with another team besides thePatriots. I'm sure if Brady had accomplished everything in his career while playing for the Broncos you guys would all be calling him the ultimate professional still

PLEASE.

wolverinejoe80 said:

the game got too physical for curry. only way to beat curry it to beat him up. get physical. cavs did a masterful job.

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I wonder if the pace of play for the last couple of years caught up to them. Could also be the 73 win season and being up 3-1 and on their home court for Game 7 and feeling that pressure also finally caught up to them.

CLE is an average to good defensive team. GS was missing shots that they normally make.

Beyond being outplayed, I can't think of a more insightful reason why they lost.

robertweathers said:

I wonder if the pace of play for the last couple of years caught up to them. Could also be the 73 win season and being up 3-1 and on their home court for Game 7 and feeling that pressure also finally caught up to them.

CLE is an average to good defensive team. GS was missing shots that they normally make.

Beyond being outplayed, I can't think of a more insightful reason why they lost.

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Look no further than the shot choice that brought them to the dance. 3's are lower percentage shots. They were bound not to fall in a deciding game. When that happens and your opponent is getting higher percentage shots, you lose.

Shameful ending for an otherwise great season. The league did them no favors with a suspension to one of their key contributors. The only good thing to come out of this is that we no longer have to listen to the Cleveland whiny fans cry and complain about not having a recent championship.

Congrats to the NBA. They seem to have gotten away with blatantly rigging an NBA finals series. I wonder if they'd do it again, if they knew that Bogut would also be lost for the series.

Draymond Green and the Warriors have no legitimate beef regarding his suspension. For crissakes, he hunts more nuts than a herd of squirrels. Wasn't exactly his first rodeo on the grapes circuit...

Joker said:

after the first game of this series I posted in THIS thread that this was going seven games. I didn't say who was going to win it because I honestly did not have a clue about THAT.You guys are fighting back and forth about who's better from what era and Lebron's place and rank...that's nice but the BUSINESS of the NBA dictates that its biggest star is marketed in the most profitable way possible for the league. Not to hard to make the statement this series was going seven games based on THAT fact of life.

Now you're all trying to foretell Lebron's future...will he continue his reign? Will he abruptly decline?

I have no idea. What I DO think is...LA Lakers...showtime needs a SUPERSTAR. They need a better followup to the Kobe years. They don't even have to win a championship, just restore the legacy. LeBron James...Laker...forays into the Hollywood landscape during the offseason...adored by the media kingmakers courtside during the season. It makes PERFECT business sense. I'm going to say right here right now, Lebron ends up a Laker. The glow of the championship will be enjoyed in Cleveland for a good while of course ...and then "LeBron's not happy with (insert generic Cav management figure) and wants out"...the Cav fans will always have THEIR championship brought to them by Lebron..there's no downside. Certainly not like the Miami move years earlier.

Yup, THAT'S my take. We'll see.

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Interesting. Wojnarowski agrees with you, thinks he's gone from Cleveland since he got them their one championship. He didn't promise /them/ 8.

KontradictioN said:

Look no further than the shot choice that brought them to the dance. 3's are lower percentage shots. They were bound not to fall in a deciding game. When that happens and your opponent is getting higher percentage shots, you lose.

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Yep. The numbers point that out and then some.

In 2016 GS shot 42% from 3 in reg season. They took an average of 29 3s a game which is 36 ppg on 3s converted.

This series they shot 37% on 36 attempts p/g for about 39 ppg.

Ok for 7 more 3pt attempts only netted them 3 more points a game. Thats not good, however the 2 point FG conversions really killed them.

Reg season: 56 2pt shots per game. 53% conv = 59ppg
vs CLE: 46 2pt shots per game. 47% from 2pt = 44ppg

So net-net. 3 less shots and 12 less points per game vs CLE.

WOW.

There's a lot of reasons why they lost. A huge part was the league keeping the series close.

Game 5-Draymond suspension and Bogut injury
Game 6-Bogut injury; Curry foul trouble; Iggy bad back
Game 7-Bogut injury; Iggy bad back (see lay up instead of dunk attempt on LBJ's block

Even down the stretch of game 7, Kerr screwed up by going with Ezeli even for short stretches. Curry too casual with the ball. The turning point was the foul on the lebron 3 committed by Ezeli when GSW was up 4 and CLE had almost no time left on the shot clock. However, the lead should've been more than 4 but it wasnt because Lebron and then Kyrie twice (3 consecutive possessions) got a quick whistle for a shooting foul that the naked eye (later confirmed by replay). All 3 clear as day BS calls to keep the game close.

Then it when it got close CLE made clutch plays and GSW did not.

League extends series and lets CLE have a chance to make plays in the clutch which they did.

Perfect script, just like Peyton going out on top.

This is the dark side of sports..and I made enough on betting CLE from game 5 onwards. Sad that its so obvious but most regular ppl are in denial as it would take away from the game.

drewskie said:

There's a lot of reasons why they lost. A huge part was the league keeping the series close.

Game 5-Draymond suspension and Bogut injury
Game 6-Bogut injury; Curry foul trouble; Iggy bad back
Game 7-Bogut injury; Iggy bad back (see lay up instead of dunk attempt on LBJ's block

Even down the stretch of game 7, Kerr screwed up by going with Ezeli even for short stretches. Curry too casual with the ball. The turning point was the foul on the lebron 3 committed by Ezeli when GSW was up 4 and CLE had almost no time left on the shot clock. However, the lead should've been more than 4 but it wasnt because Lebron and then Kyrie twice (3 consecutive possessions) got a quick whistle for a shooting foul that the naked eye (later confirmed by replay). All 3 clear as day BS calls to keep the game close.

Then it when it got close CLE made clutch plays and GSW did not.

League extends series and lets CLE have a chance to make plays in the clutch which they did.

Perfect script, just like Peyton going out on top.

This is the dark side of sports..and I made enough on betting CLE from game 5 onwards. Sad that its so obvious but most regular ppl are in denial as it would take away from the game.

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Draymond was suspended for an accumulation of flagrants and technicals. If anything is debatable about it, it's that he should have been suspended sooner. Re: injuries, **** happens. If Steven Adams hadn't been pretty much broken, the Warriors probably don't make the finals in the first place. Last year they got really lucky and the Cavs were beaten down by the injury stick, this year the reverse happened. It's how these sports work.

Curry fouled out because Cleveland realized that he's an atrocious defender and used the pick and roll to isolate him in bad matchups and repeatedly exploit him. It was a sound strategy and the refs had little to do with it. They were able to execute it because they have two of the best off-the-dribble attackers in the game, and they used that to full advantage. They went back to the same well in game 7, and the only reason why he didn't foul out again is because he resigned himself to conceding a bunch of open shots instead (which is how Kyrie got most of his points).

Not to be a ****, but your response is basically "how people who don't understand a sport and want to be edgy about it rationalize stuff" to the letter. There have been people all over the country coming up with similar explanations every time the Pats won SBs too. It was nonsense then and it's nonsense here.

Especially when you consider that the Warriors were a minute away from staking a claim as the best team in NBA history, with Steph going down as an iconi, talent building his way to generational legend status. If the NBA was going to take an active role in this series, they'd have more incentive to push it the other way.

BradyFTW! said:

Draymond was suspended for an accumulation of flagrants and technicals. If anything is debatable about it, it's that he should have been suspended sooner. Re: injuries, **** happens. If Steven Adams hadn't been pretty much broken, the Warriors probably don't make the finals in the first place. Last year they got really lucky and the Cavs were beaten down by the injury stick, this year the reverse happened. It's how these sports work.

Curry fouled out because Cleveland realized that he's an atrocious defender and used the pick and roll to isolate him in bad matchups and repeatedly exploit him. It was a sound strategy and the refs had little to do with it. They were able to execute it because they have two of the best off-the-dribble attackers in the game, and they used that to full advantage. They went back to the same well in game 7, and the only reason why he didn't foul out again is because he resigned himself to conceding a bunch of open shots instead (which is how Kyrie got most of his points).

Not to be a ****, but your response is basically "how people who don't understand a sport and want to be edgy about it rationalize stuff" to the letter. There have been people all over the country coming up with similar explanations every time the Pats won SBs too. It was nonsense then and it's nonsense here.

Especially when you consider that the Warriors were a minute away from staking a claim as the best team in NBA history, with Steph going down as an iconi, talent building his way to generational legend status. If the NBA was going to take an active role in this series, they'd have more incentive to push it the other way.

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The 3/6 fouls called in game 6 (that were clear as day NOT fouls) were as follows:

-Lebron push off in 1st quarter
-Clean steal on Kyrie at midcourt that should'v live ball turnover breakaway layup
-6th foul on a Lebron flop

Does Curry reach sometimes? Sure. But the timing of those calls all came on the heels of a momentum swinging shot in favour of GSW. Coincidence? I think not. Just like all those no holding penalties not called @DEN this yr for the Pats, then you call OPI on Gronk? Remember the SI cover with the Evan Mathis hold? Remember McCourty getting held on the CJ Anderson game winning TD in OT? You cant make this up. Adam Silver was right..the league gets 90% of the calls right...when looking at it from a business POV. Oh and Tim Donaghy correctly predicted the ref crew for game 7...2 days prior to game 7!

The switches youre correct thats strategy by CLE. No doubt.

I respect your take on this, but your position on this is similar to the rest of the NFL calling NE fans whiners when its blatantly obvious the refs had an agenda. If the refs call Curry like they were calling for CLE, he plays tougher on Kyrie with the knowledge that he wont get called for those ticky tack fouls. Thats how CLE enforced their will by being physical off the ball with Curry/Klay knowing they werent gona get called for any weak fouls.

Also if youre gona call Curry like a scrub, how do you explain Lebron and Kyrie BOTH getting away with offensive push offs on EVERY drive literally?

The Cavs had to make plays absolutely, but they were in a position to do so thanks to the NBA wanting to extend the series. Much like GSw getting a helping hand when they were down 3-1 to OKC.

I'm no GSW fan for the record. Also Lebron coming back 3-1 down (that no Finals team in NBA history has done) against a 73 win team to bring a ring for CLE? Thats an even better storyline than GSW going b2b even though thats a good story too. Dont be naive my friend. I made a killing from the books from games 5-7 for a reason. Just like how Peyton went out on top, Jerome Bettis went out on top, etc. Storylines sell. Watch DEN get no where near the number of calls this coming year when compared to last year. Sports is a business first.

Fell asleep in the 4th quarter and woke up to the news ...

Totally disgusted but congratulations to the Cavs ...

They earned it the old fashioned way playing ball hard for every second.

Oh and Lebron you have 3 rings and you still suck hope it's your last.

rochrist said:

Interesting. Wojnarowski agrees with you, thinks he's gone from Cleveland since he got them their one championship. He didn't promise /them/ 8.

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Not that it means much, because he's an idiot, but S.A.S. also thinks LeBron either goes to the Lakers or goes back to the Heat.

drewskie said:

There's a lot of reasons why they lost. A huge part was the league keeping the series close.

Game 5-Draymond suspension and Bogut injury
Game 6-Bogut injury; Curry foul trouble; Iggy bad back
Game 7-Bogut injury; Iggy bad back (see lay up instead of dunk attempt on LBJ's block

Even down the stretch of game 7, Kerr screwed up by going with Ezeli even for short stretches. Curry too casual with the ball. The turning point was the foul on the lebron 3 committed by Ezeli when GSW was up 4 and CLE had almost no time left on the shot clock. However, the lead should've been more than 4 but it wasnt because Lebron and then Kyrie twice (3 consecutive possessions) got a quick whistle for a shooting foul that the naked eye (later confirmed by replay). All 3 clear as day BS calls to keep the game close.

Then it when it got close CLE made clutch plays and GSW did not.

League extends series and lets CLE have a chance to make plays in the clutch which they did.

Perfect script, just like Peyton going out on top.

This is the dark side of sports..and I made enough on betting CLE from game 5 onwards. Sad that its so obvious but most regular ppl are in denial as it would take away from the game.

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I could choose to believe that nonsense on faith, or I could ask for extraordinary evidence to support your very extraordinary claims. I'll choose the latter.

You can start by explaining why the league didn't engineer last years finals in Cleveland's favor. I mean, was the Lebron-brings-Title-to-CLE angle any less compelling last year?

You can then explain how exactly the league reliably determined that it would be more profitable for the Cavs to win than for GSW to complete the greatest season in history. Gallup Polls? Complex algorithms? The NBA officers would really risk the destruction of the league and potential criminal liability for match fixing just to get (potentially) a slightly better storyline?

On the extending series issue, please explain why only 5 of the last 30 NBA finals went 7 games. Also, why the previous 6 Lebron finals resulted in that same 1/6 likelihood of a 7-game series.

robertweathers said:

Damn straight. Lebron's actions are vastly different than Brady's. They carry themselves completely different.

People hate the Patriots and Brady because they win.

People don't like LeBron because he is a self-centered, narcissistic, baby.

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Thats not the perception though from a lot of haters, especially Colts fans (although they're a very special group so i dont take them too seriously). They think Brady is arrogant, whiney, sore loser and a cheater.. and a slew of other things.

I think once you start hating someone because they're winning, you start coming up with reasons for your disdain to the point where you truly believe it

KontradictioN said:

Another thing: Who changed their vote in this thread? Man up and admit it if only for hilarity purposes. The "Warriors" selection on the poll had 80 votes to it yesterday and has 79 now.

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I changed it once the series was tied 3-3

Just saw a little clip of the Cavs arriving in Cleveland with the trophy and a little boy in the crowd said, "this is awesome!" it reminded me of my/our first time and brought a little tear to my eye. I'm not a basketball fan nor a LeBron James fan but remember that feeling and it's fun to see others (when not at Boston's expense) experience it.

letekro said:

I could choose to believe that nonsense on faith, or I could ask for extraordinary evidence to support your very extraordinary claims. I'll choose the latter.

You can start by explaining why the league didn't engineer last years finals in Cleveland's favor. I mean, was the Lebron-brings-Title-to-CLE angle any less compelling last year?

You can then explain how exactly the league reliably determined that it would be more profitable for the Cavs to win than for GSW to complete the greatest season in history. Gallup Polls? Complex algorithms? The NBA officers would really risk the destruction of the league and potential criminal liability for match fixing just to get (potentially) a slightly better storyline?

On the extending series issue, please explain why only 5 of the last 30 NBA finals went 7 games. Also, why the previous 6 Lebron finals resulted in that same 1/6 likelihood of a 7-game series.

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You can influence results, but you can't outright fix them. If a scrub makes 3 after 3 you can't stop that. But you can make things easier by calling timely fouls or not, and having key players in foul trouble. You can try to extend series but if one team is so much superior than the other (see 14 Heat/Spurs) even the refs can't change that (eg. heat went on a run to start game 5 with some friendly whistle but Spurs clawed back because they're so much better).

The league isnt stupid enough to say anything incriminating on text/email/paper etc. As Donaghy pointed out, when the league wants a desired result they infer things like "you're missing a lot of guys hacking at player X" etc. Once you point out enough examples, the refs get the picture. Its like why do teams down 20 pts get friendly whistles? Because its better for ratings when the games are close (but not so close as to put the desired winning team's lead in jeopardy).

Also Lebron coming back 3-1 (something no Finals team has done) and ending CLE's sports drought is an even better storyline than GSW going b2b. But most importantly, the league got its wish with a game 7 (which as it turns out is the highest rated NBA game since game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals where Jordan hit the shot over Utah).