Is the NFL doing the right thing????

nhpatsfan said:

Aw cripes. Here I feel like I just wrapped my brain around all the implications, and now this? Forgive my ignorance (no sarcasm, honest), but I don't get it. How is the league hurt more with Vick gone?

Click to expand...

Hopefully he means if suspending him in haste costs them the ability to enforce a personal conduct policy at all down the road. And it may also be better for the league long term to let their employees see this guy twist in the wind as opposed to suspending him and "moving on". And ultimately it may be better for the league to see the organization that directly employed him take the action they are entitled to under the CBA and leave the commissioner and the league to step in only if that fails to materialize or fails to be upheld.

From the NFL statement:

We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him. We will continue to closely monitor developments in this case, and to cooperate with law enforcement authorities. The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts. The matter will be reviewed under the League's Personal Conduct Policy.

Click to expand...

QuiGon said:

Maybe because it's wiser to let more facts roll in instead of being a reactionary commissioner...?
No, what it "looks like" is he is waiting for more facts to come out before making an ultimate decision. The regular season is still about 8 weeks away, why are you in such a rush..?

Click to expand...

Why a rush?? I think what is alleged is VERY serious and that the NFL has to be out in front with it. Otherwise, the NFL will get tainted by it all and I would THINK the NFL is aware of the PR problem. I do NOT think that suspending a player pending an investigation by the NFL to be at all unusual given this serious indictment. It's all well and fine for a Commish to wait for facts..but what has he said about it?? He looks weak..a pitiful statement about not doing anything and waiting for the legal system to play out. But without a STRONG statement it looks like they are in meetings, running scared of what to do. Sorry..I find what he has done as pitifully weak. OK..so he doesm't have the guts to do what is right....I understand that..But why doesn't he come out and make a strong statement condemning what was done AND SAY that he is looking at the facts and will make a decision in time?? No one will address that or even give reasons why the Commish should NOT do that. Why hasb't he? If he came out and made a statement like that I would have no problem with it. I would disagree and hope he would do MORE, but I would be happy that he is making an effort to look strong. That he has NOT done it considering the egregious nature of the indictment is beyond me. Why do you think he's saying so little?? That is as much the problem as his inaction..but the fact that he has not found it in himself to say anything even a simple and strong statement that they are investigating it shows he is more or less hiding/skirting the issue. Here a player gets indicted on a very very serious charge and the Commisionor of the sport of the player involves says nothing. What a great leader!! HE was pretty quick with statements with other players but here it looks like he's running scared.

QuiGon said:

What you have to realize is that these actions cannot be evaluated in a vacuum. If he suspends Vick the day after the indictment, then people like you will criticize him the next time some player gets indicted and he doesn't suspend immediately. You'll say "he suspended Vick immediately, so why isn't he suspending so-and-so immediately..!??" So if they got in the habit of suspending players immediately, all would be perfectly well and good - until that one time when you suspend someone who's later found not guilty of all charges.

Click to expand...

We'll see if the hammer returns or not. But it's the tough times that show where leaders are and during these first few days he does NOT look like one. I think as far as suspending player immediately is concerned, you are treating any indictment for whatever as eqiual. It could be for spitting on the road or it could be what Vick as allegedly done....all the same. I do not see ALL indictments as the same and a Commisonor HAS to have some guts in treating each offense with responsibility and fairness as well as taking into ccount the seriousness of the offense. If you had read what I have said about this, I suggested that if he the indictment was about being involved on the peripheral with dog fighting even or if it was only something done once or twice, I would have NO problem at all with waiting until the legal system plays out. This is a bit more serious and for those who do not understand that, I think reading the indictment and seeing some films on dog fighting might be in order. The fact is there was dogfighting on his property and dogs both dead and alive were found there as were many types of dog fighting machines and paraphanalia. THOSE are facts...and THAt is VERY serious in my mind. And I think a Commisionor in a sport needs to understand that and act accordingly. No they can not be evaluated in a vacuum and the NFL will pay for what it does or does NOT do. That is what will play out in the next weeks. Goodell has made his statements known indirectly and I think weakly. Maybe public opinion will not be as strong in a few weeks...maybe he'll get bailed out by the Falcons or Vick himself. When Goodell does something, it will be more forced, for he has made a statement about letting the legal system play out. A smart Commissionor would have left ALL on the table and open pending investigations. Sure he can change his mind, but he looks like he is playing to the masses and other forces.

AndyJohnson said:

Goodell is not concerned with showing th epublic how tough he is. His image is not at issue.
The standard is he is going to make decisions that are best for the NFL.
The image of the league has taken hits over criminal activity of players. He acts upon that. Now, he has a different situation where the league could be hurt more by Vick being out of it, than by keeping him on the field bad image and all. Goodells standard is not whether to treat all players the same, or be tough, it is to do what is best for the NFL. That makes every decision different.
You may not like the reality of it, but Goodells decisions are based on what is best for the league, not fair on anyones scale.

Click to expand...

He certainly seemed to want to change the image of the NFL..OR am I missing all of what he started out with...being tough. How is what he is doing not doing the best for the NFL?? I see so far that he has showed a total weakness. A better Commish would have at least made some public statement about the indictment. A strong statement condemning it and basically saying that the league would investiagte or do whatever and act. I think THAt would have been the best.If you thinik doing what is best for the league is what he is doing..wait for the circus at the games...I do not think it will get that far. Either Atlanta or Vick himself may save him. How iwll Vick being out of BAD for the league?? I think Goodell is playing with fire..and the league may suffer from his weakness and lack of leadership...so far in two days he has shown none.

PatsFan37 said:

From the NFL statement:

Click to expand...

that's what I was looking for

Pats726 said:

Why a rush?? I think what is alleged is VERY serious and that the NFL has to be out in front with it.

Click to expand...

The key word is alleged. You're darn right: What's been alleged is very serious. What's been proven is... well gee, not a whole heck of a lot has been proven just yet, now has it..?

Pats726 said:

Otherwise, the NFL will get tainted by it all and I would THINK the NFL is aware of the PR problem. I do NOT think that suspending a player pending an investigation by the NFL to be at all unusual given this serious indictment.

Click to expand...

I agree. Fortunately the start of the regular season is still about 2 months away so there's no need to rush into doing something today.

Like I said before... when you suspend someone immediately after he is charged with something, you start down a very slippery slope. You will be expected to do the same thing next time some guy is indicted... except maybe that next guy is not guilty...

Pats726 said:

Some may see it as Vick's first incident, but we are talking about incidents over many years, multiple offenses of the law.

Click to expand...

Name them, please. He had a civil suit about STDs. There was some stuff about a water botle, but that is not an incident with the law. He was not detained, was not even brought in for questioning, never mind being charged with anything. Nothing came of it. He gave the finger to fans. Again, not smart but not a bruish with the law.

All dumb things, for sure, but so far he has not been involved with the law at all, never mind multiple offenses. If you have other information, give us what he has been charged with, where and when.

Also, you keep saying he lied to the Commissioner. When was this? As far as I know, he has only been called to the Commissioner's Office once, and that was about being the spokesperson for the VT shootings. The Commissioner has never called him in to question him about dog fighting. Never.

If you are aware of a private converstation between you, the Commissioner and Vick, please, by all means, give us the details.

It's been like 2 days. How long after the Las Vegas incident was Pacman suspended?

The problem is that the Commissioner doesn't have a double standard. YOU DO. You want the Commissioner act immediately before all the facts are in with Vick, whereas the Commissioner took weeks to address the Pacman and Henry incidents, carefully weighing evidence and interviewing.

I don't know why you think Vick should be treated differently than Pacman or Henry or Johnson. You ought to ask yourself that question.

The NFL will not be able to ignore the Vick situation very long. I

expect to see the Peta group picketing all Atlanta Falcon events.

Sometimes these folks get carried away but in this case they are

one hundred percent justified. They may be joined by thousands of

dog lovers across the country. Bob Ryan had an excellent column on

his feelings about the situation.

Pats726 said:

He certainly seemed to want to change the image of the NFL..OR am I missing all of what he started out with...being tough. How is what he is doing not doing the best for the NFL?? I see so far that he has showed a total weakness. A better Commish would have at least made some public statement about the indictment. A strong statement condemning it and basically saying that the league would investiagte or do whatever and act. I think THAt would have been the best.If you thinik doing what is best for the league is what he is doing..wait for the circus at the games...I do not think it will get that far. Either Atlanta or Vick himself may save him. How iwll Vick being out of BAD for the league?? I think Goodell is playing with fire..and the league may suffer from his weakness and lack of leadership...so far in two days he has shown none.

Click to expand...

The league castigated Ron Mexico for puting himself in a position to be indicted... "We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him. We will continue to closely monitor developments in this case, and to cooperate with law enforcement authorities. The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal." That's a strong statement.

As to the league investigating, I'd say that the Feds are better trained to 'investigate' than the NFL. Let them do their job; they've done well so far.

Goodell has shown leadership by not succumbing to the emotional lynch mob mentatity by taking precipitous currently popular actions that could cause serious league labor problems, set unwanted precedents (like suspending future indicted, yet innocent players & coaches) and complicate the legal process in unforseen ways.

Jimke said:

The NFL will not be able to ignore the Vick situation very long. I

expect to see the Peta group picketing all Atlanta Falcon events.

Sometimes these folks get carried away but in this case they are

one hundred percent justified. They may be joined by thousands of

dog lovers across the country. Bob Ryan had an excellent column on

his feelings about the situation.

Click to expand...

PETA. Now there's a group of moonbats.

Pats726 said:

Am I the only one who feels that the NFL is operating on a double standard with Michael Vick?? Sure, it's easy to get tough with a Tank Johnson or another obscure player or even a many incident involved player like Pacman, but when it comes to a star like Vick, it's an obvious wait and see situation.

I would say wait and see IF the allegations were that he was at a dogfight or even involved once or twice...HARDLY what the allegations are. The facts are that SOMETHING was going on on his property and dogs both alive and dead were found there as well. THOSE are facts. Some may see it as Vick's first incident, but we are talking about incidents over many years, multiple offenses of the law. The fact that he lied to the commissioner only makes this evening worse. So, the commissioner who was supposed to show the public how tough he is has wimped out and showing that his crackdown is dependent on many things...a prima donna star can do MANY things more and still be playing. I think Goodell who claims he wishes the league be cleaned up has indeed soiled the image of the league with his non-actions. Shame on him!!! If he had guts, Vick would be suspended while the league investigates all of this, from the dogfighting, to his lies, to the gambling side of it all.

I think over the next few days people should make their feelings known to the NFL office on this. And yes, if you think the Commish has done the right thing, certainly let the NFL office know that.

My sense is that the NFL needs to know how the public feels on this.

The NFL public relations number is 212-450-2000.

Click to expand...

Remember that most incidents are minor and don't really get any airplay until they have been mostly resolved, either for the good or the bad of the NFL and/or the player in question.

On the other hand, this incident with Vick has received attention from the very get go, from the earliest allegations that something was amiss. Two reasons for this: (1) Vick is one of the true superstars of the league, and (2) this is an extremely severe case. I believe the NFL is definitely doing the right thing by not acting presumptiously and letting the legal system play out.

On the other hand, should Vick be found guilty, or if we have an OJ situation where it is apparent he is guilty but somehow manages to get acquitted, and then the NFL reacts leniently in Vick's case, then I think you can start bashing the league. But not now.

PatsWickedPissah said:

PETA. Now there's a group of moonbats.

Click to expand...

Don't you feel ashamed evey time you have boiled lobster at home?

Pats726 said:

I think that is wrong on a few counts..Firstly, the weakness of the Commish is showing..

Click to expand...

Well, some believe that taking a reactionary stance would be strength. I happen to believe it would be weakness. We can disagree on this.

OK do nothing UNTIL later..but at LEAST come out strong in saying that you as Commisionor are outraged by these developments and that you will make a decision later. That is ALL minimum that was needed.

Click to expand...

Actually, I know that the Commisioner is outraged by the developments and will be making a decision later (after the trial). I expect you and the vast majority of people know it, too, since he's said the second part and most everyone is outraged at the incidents described in the indictment if, indeed, they did happen. The statement from the NFL office which I just read does exactly what you want in saying this, so perhaps you now agree that this has been accomplished.

NOT this mealy mouthed "we are not suspending him now..waiting for legal outcomes." He needed to get in front of it, confronting it front and center instead of weak words and actions. What about the fact that Vick lied to the Commish?? I guess that is all OK as well. The NFL is in danger of real tarnish and having serious PR problems. THAT has already started.

Click to expand...

Not in my mind. People are in such a rush to judge. Why? What's so important that we can't wait a while to express an opinion (and, after all, that's all the Commissioner would be doing is expressing an opinion since the agreed upon policy reserves judgment in this instance until after a verdict).

I'm reminded of my umpire training. Don't rush to make the call; the call will still be there in a couple of seconds and the runner will still be out/safe regardless of exactly when the call is made. Just take it easy.

PatsWickedPissah said:

.

Goodell has shown leadership by not succumbing to the emotional lynch mob mentatity by taking precipitous currently popular actions that could cause serious league labor problems, set unwanted precedents (like suspending future indicted, yet innocent players & coaches) and complicate the legal process in unforseen ways.

Click to expand...

Exactly. (10 chars)

TruthSeeker said:

Well, some believe that taking a reactionary stance would be strength. I happen to believe it would be weakness. We can disagree on this.




Actually, I know that the Commisioner is outraged by the developments and will be making a decision later (after the trial). I expect you and the vast majority of people know it, too, since he's said the second part and most everyone is outraged at the incidents described in the indictment if, indeed, they did happen.



Not in my mind. People are in such a rush to judge. Why? What's so important that we can't wait a while to express an opinion (and, after all, that's all the Commissioner would be doing is expressing an opinion since the agreed upon policy reserves judgment in this instance until after a verdict).

I'm reminded of my umpire training. Don't rush to make the call; the call will still be there in a couple of seconds and the runner will still be out/safe regardless of exactly when the call is made. Just take it easy.

Click to expand...

I think, speaking for myself, that all this information, plus videos of dog fighting playing on CNN brings out a very visceral response. People hear and see things and they feel helpless. Myself, I was very angry this morning, but like the other posters have said, let the judicial system play this out. We have no choice but to wait.

PatsWickedPissah said:

PETA. Now there's a group of moonbats.

Click to expand...

There's a helluva statement from a guy who has a quote about shooting dogs in his signature. Maybe you're the moonbat.

OhExaulted1 said:

There's a helluva statement from a guy who has a quote about shooting dogs in his signature. Maybe you're the moonbat.

Click to expand...

That's from a former POTUS

And yes, they're MOONBATS

PatsWickedPissah said:

That's from a former POTUS

And yes, they're MOONBATS

Click to expand...

If you can't see the irony of someone ragging on PETA (and yes, I know they can be extreme) with a signature espousing shooting dogs in a Micheal Vick thread maybe you should take a step back and think about it.

I don't know exactly what the hell a "moonbat" is, but I'm guessing you qualify.

You need to look uo the definition of irony.

PatsWickedPissah said:

You need to look uo the definition of irony.

Click to expand...

I guess if you are OK with abusing animals then it wouldn't be ironic.

Sorry, my bad.