Draft Day 2: Official Rounds 2-3 Thread

BradyFTW! said:

Vince Wilfork was a DT with conditioning issues. He won't be Wilfork, of course, but that isn't quite as damning as you're suggesting.

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Come on, please....

Wilfork was a first round pick and along with Tommie Harris was the top rated DT in the entire 2004 Draft.

Valentine wasn't even the best DT left on the board was selected.

Those two are not even comparable.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

Brissett looks pretty Roethlisbergeresque.

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Good Lord, the poor kid was running for his life the whole game, and still really played well.

Gronk said:

Not for nothing but I guess I don't see why you would expect every single draft pick to be directed towards that goal. They're building a program to sustain the roster multiple years out. The team is mostly set - if any team were depending on late 3rd rounders to immediately help them win the Super Bowl this year then I would just think they probably weren't SB caliber in the first place. Just out of curiousity I see the Broncos drafted TE Jeff Heureman in the 3rd last year, a position of need for them after losing Julius Thomas. He tore his ACL and never played. They still won the Super Bowl.

Personally I would've liked to see a RB taken because I don't think what they have is good nearly good enough, but as it stands there's still several good ones left and the draft isn't over. I think it's kind of impossible to grade/judge drafts immediately anyway, but even moreso when doing it on the fly when there's not a full draft class yet.

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You are correct. Your post makes a lot of sense. I get the team building but I think this yer was different because the league stolen first round pick.
Also, I probably attribute way too much of the Pats' success to being lucky enough to have TB12. I am in the camp that once Brady retires it will be much more difficult to win SB titles.

zydecochris said:

Good Lord, the poor kid was running for his life the whole game, and still really played well.

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I watched three games of his this morning. Rarely had a clean pocket.

The draft is great because it's a total crapshoot but there's a whole industry built on declaring players "sure things" and "great picks" on draft day and they end up sucking, and there are guys drafted "too high" or for "poor value" who end up being productive players. No one ever has to answer for it because there's zero consequences for the quality of one's player grading and rating unless you are an NFL head coach or GM.

Cyrus Jones could put up rookie Devin Hester punt/kick return numbers and play as a solid nickel CB all year and people will still ***** that they might have been able to get him a round later. Heaven forbid if the Pats had taken Tom Brady in the 3rd round when they already had a QB and maybe could've taken him later. BB takes guys he thinks will be good. Sometimes he's wrong, of course, but on the whole I think him not giving a **** about how a pick looks, what it's perceived value is, etc. has served the team well.

I think there is a chance that they see a lot of the tangibles of Wilfork before his big breakout in his last collage year before he declared and are hoping for the same breakout but under the Patriots regime.

manxman2601 said:

I watched three games of his this morning. Rarely had a clean pocket.

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It was interesting how often the announcers used the word "smart" about him. "Smart Runner", "Smart pass", etc.

zydecochris said:

Good Lord, the poor kid was running for his life the whole game, and still really played well.

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One of his roll out throws in the video looked pretty "NFL professional" to my untrained eye. Too early to put him in the hall of fame yet, but I can see why scouts would like him.

zydecochris said:

It was interesting how often the announcers used the word "smart" about him. "Smart Runner", "Smart pass", etc.

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He looks for the throwaway when he's under pressure too which I like. Does his best to avoid the sack. Basically, aside from Thuney, his OL was trash and his receivers weren't much better struggling to get seperation on their own.

DaBruinz said:

Pretty sure that Thuney is the future RT.

And the 4-3 over uses a NT. The Vikings used that for years with The 2 Williams on the inside. One at NT and the other at UT.

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Thuney doesn't seem to consider himself a tackle saying he doesn't have the length. Hopefully Scar and Bill think otherwise.

Joke Brisket & Fat Vinnie: Bill's 2 worst consecutive draft picks……ever……and that's saying something.

Brit patriot said:

Though it makes sense to question every pick, and watching the ride will be interesting as it is with every rookie, people need to remember that they know F all compared to Bill, and if they did, they would be working in a front office somewhere.

I admit, we don't get college football here, so these guys mean nothing to me. Still, Bill must see an upside. If a guy is truly as garbage as you think he is, then i would suspect that the greatest coach of all time may possibly be able to spot that.

Of course busts happen, the draft is an inexact science. The expert is only ever right as often as the idiot, he is just wrong for more intelligent reasons.

Just stop seeing yourselves as the Delphic oracle and get behind the players!

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Can we please stop with this kind of nonsense?

captain stone said:

Joke Brisket & Fat Vinnie: Bill's 2 worst consecutive draft picks……ever……and that's saying something.

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Apart from Valentine, the Pats draft has made perfect sense to me. They're such a complete team that almost any draft pick will mean getting rid of a useful player, so they went after very specific un-filled roles.

They desperately needed to improve their return game (and lighten the workload of Edelman and Amendola), so they get the best returner out there, who also happens to be a promising corner.

They needed a swing tackle, but also had shaky guard play last year and needed a plan B in case Cooper can't be the left guard. So they get a guy in Thuney who can potentially address all of those issues in one roster spot.

They unquestionably needed a third QB. Not only did they need just a body, but they had to be thinking about a player who could be a long-term solution, if they trade Jimmy G next year. A high pick made sense. Do you just not like the player? Because otherwise, what's not to like? Brissett is a toolsy, big strong kid, will be fun to watch.

And Mitchell looks like a clear LaFell replacement. He's an exciting player also.

Is everyone just miffed because they didn't pick a back yet?

Sciz said:

Clayton Fejedelem from Illinois. Projected 7th round pick, but he played lacrosse in high school and that moves him up 5 rounds.

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Brave effort, but you can't outfox BB. He raised your Fejedelem with Kamu Grugier-Hill.

Gronk said:

The draft is great because it's a total crapshoot but there's a whole industry built on declaring players "sure things" and "great picks" on draft day and they end up sucking, and there are guys drafted "too high" or for "poor value" who end up being productive players. No one ever has to answer for it because there's zero consequences for the quality of one's player grading and rating unless you are an NFL head coach or GM.

Cyrus Jones could put up rookie Devin Hester punt/kick return numbers and play as a solid nickel CB all year and people will still ***** that they might have been able to get him a round later. Heaven forbid if the Pats had taken Tom Brady in the 3rd round when they already had a QB and maybe could've taken him later. BB takes guys he thinks will be good. Sometimes he's wrong, of course, but on the whole I think him not giving a **** about how a pick looks, what it's perceived value is, etc. has served the team well.

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I could care less what Cyrus Jones was projected by a web site. I hated the Wilson and Harmon picks. Still kind of do. Way too early in many fans eyes but what is not deniable is that those players have served a role on this team. Played more snaps then 1st rounders in the same draft and have been more productive in this league than many of the hundreds of players drafted. Same for Cardona Ebner and others. I see the Stanford kid playing a bigger role this year.

They liked Cyrus Jones and didn't want to wait until the 3rd or just felt he was a 2nd rounder and I'm ok with that. Doesn't mean I agree with it, you can praise it, badmouth it, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't like the Qb pick this year, the JG or the Mallett pick. Oh well, doesn't matter, BB is king of hill. I'm used to it and there is no denying his w/l record.

captain stone said:

Joke Brisket & Fat Vinnie: Bill's 2 worst consecutive draft picks……ever……and that's saying something.

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yeah. who really thinks Fat Vinnie is better as a nose tackle than Andrew Billings ?

Sponge-cake-bob (5.19 40yd, 17 reps) vs. M1-Abrams (5.05 40yd, 31 reps)?

Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyed 23m23 minutes ago
Spoke to a scout who said Nebraska DT Vincent Valentine (3rd, 96th overall) could wind up being the Patriots' best value pick.


Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyed 14m14 minutes ago
#Patriots Vincent Valentine was a consensus seventh rounder according to online rankings, but he was regarded much, much higher by teams.


Doug KyedVerified account‏@DougKyed
RE Valentine. Rare size, speed, quickness, strength, plays with violence.

Hopefully Jacoby Brissett develops into a Good Quarterback for the Patriots . I like the pick. I think the Patriots picking Jacoby Brissett likely means that Jimmy Garoppolo is going to be traded.

BelichickFan said:

Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyed 23m23 minutes ago
Spoke to a scout who said Nebraska DT Vincent Valentine (3rd, 96th overall) could wind up being the Patriots' best value pick.


Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyed 14m14 minutes ago
#Patriots Vincent Valentine was a consensus seventh rounder according to online rankings, but he was regarded much, much higher by teams.


Doug KyedVerified account‏@DougKyed
RE Valentine. Rare size, speed, quickness, strength, plays with violence.

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Caserio claimed that he can line up anywhere between the 0 tech and 5 tech, although that sounds almost silly to me.

I have no problem with the Valentine pick or the Jones pick. I'm not really a fan of the 2 selections in the middle of those choices, that's all.