OT: TB12's agent Donald Yee Blasts NCAA For Economic and Racial Discrimination

Dr Pain said:

'I Trusted 'Em': When NCAA Schools Abandon Their Injured Athletes

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Insurance Coverage for Student-Athletes

In the linked article, it talks about spinal stenosis and the need for the player to have the surgery in order to be able to play. Doughty in other words was not injured on the field. This is genetic.

You don't a world of difference here? I doubt any school would even want him on the field with a genetic condition that could potentially paralyze him.

I think the bigger issue isn't whether or not the kids should be making money. It's that some people are making millions in the industry when more of the money should be devoted to cheapening the schools. There doesn't seem to be any laws for how much employees can be paid by supposed "not for profit" institutions. I don't care if universities have to compete for coaches with the NFL. That doesn't matter. Amnesty International has to compete with for profit institutions. Red Cross does too. It should come with the turf. No one should get rich from a not for profit, including Nick Saban or the President of Ohio State University.

VectorPrime said:

Race is directly tied into socio-economic status in a massive amount of complicated ways, and that then ties directly into a colleges ability to take kids from underprivileged backgrounds and use them for their own profit.

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What profit? Almost all universities have a huge money-suck for sports. There are maybe a couple schools that make anything, like Texas. But even then it's questionable because Texas dumps all royalties from branding into their athletic budget, not to mention the $300m in debt for facilities paid for by the school, and not the AD.

VectorPrime said:

Race is directly tied into socio-economic status in a massive amount of complicated ways, and that then ties directly into a colleges ability to take kids from underprivileged backgrounds and use them for their own profit.

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And the colleges would be doing the exact same thing if the football and basketball teams were majority rich white Johnny Manziel types instead of majority black.

patriot lifer said:

I think the bigger issue isn't whether or not the kids should be making money. It's that some people are making millions in the industry when more of the money should be devoted to cheapening the schools. There doesn't seem to be any laws for how much employees can be paid by supposed "not for profit" institutions. I don't care if universities have to compete for coaches with the NFL. That doesn't matter. Amnesty International has to compete with for profit institutions. Red Cross does too. It should come with the turf. No one should get rich from a not for profit, including Nick Saban or the President of Ohio State University.

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Unfortunately, the courts--and specifically the labor relations boards--would not look kindly on a cap for coaches's pay. It would be considered illegal. As for cheapening the schools, I think you mean reduce costs. Right? You're saying the salaries they pay coaches could be used to reduce costs.

The problem is that universities subsidize sports with tens of millions a year, so even a big reduction in coaches' pay is not going to cause a huge dent. There is a whole industry at every university, trainers, advisers, nutritionists, academic help, strength & conditioning, doctors, not to mention facilities upkeep, travel, etc. The expenditures are through the roof.

upstater1 said:

Insurance Coverage for Student-Athletes

In the linked article, it talks about spinal stenosis and the need for the player to have the surgery in order to be able to play. Doughty in other words was not injured on the field. This is genetic.

You don't a world of difference here? I doubt any school would even want him on the field with a genetic condition that could potentially paralyze him.

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Can't wait to see their CTE payouts too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/25/s...e-athletes-from-the-pain-of-injury-costs.html

Deus Irae said:

Boston College costs more than $48k per year, just for tuition. Scolarship players get that for nothing (I'm talking cash, not saying that performing as a scholarship athlete is nothing), along with room, board and supplies.

Tell me again how they aren't getting paid.

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Someone brought up a legitimate point about that. Some kids' education is a farce. They practice all the time, take easy classes, and meet the minimums for attendance. What value do those students receive?

And not every student-athlete receives a scholarship.

Wheelman said:

You're right those are horrible options for the players who come from nothing. That's not right! How are they supposed to pay for insurance if they're prohibited from working or making money?

No wonder players try to turn pro early. That's f*cked up!

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Medicaid?

Here's my question for you all: the NBA has a minor league that would pay 18 year olds to play in it. It's the NBDL. Emanuel Mudiay and Brandon Jennings were eligible for it because college was not right for them, but they both elected to go oversees and play instead for a year before entering the NBA.

Since these athletes do have the option of going pro straight out of high school, do you feel sympathy for them if they choose to go to college instead? They can elect to get paid immediately if they want.

When it comes to football, the NFL obviously doesn't have a minor league. But if it did, would you feel differently if the football players hd the option but elected to go to college instead?

upstater1 said:

Unfortunately, the courts--and specifically the labor relations boards--would not look kindly on a cap for coaches's pay. It would be considered illegal. As for cheapening the schools, I think you mean reduce costs. Right? You're saying the salaries they pay coaches could be used to reduce costs.

The problem is that universities subsidize sports with tens of millions a year, so even a big reduction in coaches' pay is not going to cause a huge dent. There is a whole industry at every university, trainers, advisers, nutritionists, academic help, strength & conditioning, doctors, not to mention facilities upkeep, travel, etc. The expenditures are through the roof.

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Sure, I agree that it's not going to change, but I'm arguing what's right--not what's legally practical. It will never change.

As for reducing costs, if a coach is paid $5 million, and that was reduced by $4 million, that's a lot of full ride scholarships. Isn't it? But regardless, it's also the principle. Since when should persons become enriched from not for profits? It's seems so backwards.

patriot lifer said:

Someone brought up a legitimate point about that. Some kids' education is a farce.

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I was a student athlete in college. I understand how it works. The "Some kids' education is a farce" line isn't really a legitimate point. It's an opinion, not a fact.

patriot lifer said:

They practice all the time, take easy classes, and meet the minimums for attendance. What value do those students receive?

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First, you generally get out what you put in. Second, if you decide not to worry about the education aspect (for whatever reason), you still get the opportunity to play your sport, (hopefully) be better trained in it, and (hopefully) be put in a position where, if you have sufficient talent, you are discovered, while having room and board covered.

patriot lifer said:

And not every student-athlete receives a scholarship.

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I know. So what? Not every sport is a scholarship sport. What do you think's going to happen if every player has to get paid? Do you think the school's more likely to magically discover enough money to give $30k salaries for the guys on the freshman baseball team or to eliminate the freshman baseball team?

I absolutely despise the NCAA, for a lot of reasons. The notion that the players aren't getting paid, however, is not an honest notion.

Does anyone think the NFL would ever eliminate the can't enter draft till 3 years after graduation?

I don't think they will, but if they did wonder if the NHL system of being able to be drafted at 18 but still keep your college eligibility with no agent signing. And allow those players a 2 week training session in summer with team without Hurting the eligibility. And allow NFL teams to keep your rights till you are ready or 22 years old. If not signed by 22 player becomes a UFA.

Again I am not advocating anything just wondering?

Deus Irae said:

I was a student athlete in college. I understand how it works. The "Some kids' education is a farce" line isn't really a legitimate point. It's an opinion, not a fact.



First, you generally get out what you put in. Second, you get the opportunity to play your sport, (hopefully) be better trained in it, and (hopefully) be put in a position where, if you have sufficient talent, you are discovered.




I know. So what?

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Your first point is part an appeal to authority. Were you D1 football in Alabama? Very different culture than yankee territory. Your second point is fair to an extent but you're starting to argue that the value is in the practice of sport--not the degree and education. Most student athletes don't make a living as athletes--they're not good enough. For most students the practical value will be the education.

i think you need to re-read your own post. You stated that scholarships are essentially forms of payment...while not acknowledging that not every student athlete receives a full ride, such as with your BC example.

Not disagreeing with the conclusions. Students need to accept responsibility for their decisions and parents/mentors need to do a better job at guiding kids on these decisions.

John Oliver did a pretty good job on the NCAA.

patriot lifer said:

Sure, I agree that it's not going to change, but I'm arguing what's right--not what's legally practical. It will never change.

As for reducing costs, if a coach is paid $5 million, and that was reduced by $4 million, that's a lot of full ride scholarships. Isn't it? But regardless, it's also the principle. Since when should persons become enriched from not for profits? It's seems so backwards.

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Since states and taxpayers decided not to subsidize public education anymore. There are states that are now fully out of it.

I agree with you about college coaches, but as for the fundraisers, the people who build endowments, or the people who bring in research grants, etc., you can either be a very poor school without them, or use the proceeds they bring in to have some semblance of a school. If you're talking about run of the mill administrators earning $100k then I agree with you. There are too many of those. But generally, the President, Provost, and the top researchers, need to bring in the dough to earn their salaries.

Snake Eyes said:

John Oliver did a pretty good job on the NCAA.

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Loved Ed O'Bannon's mock video-game endorsement.

Deus Irae said:

I was a student athlete in college. I understand how it works. The "Some kids' education is a farce" line isn't really a legitimate point. It's an opinion, not a fact.



First, you generally get out what you put in. Second, if you decide not to worry about the education aspect (for whatever reason), you still get the opportunity to play your sport, (hopefully) be better trained in it, and (hopefully) be put in a position where, if you have sufficient talent, you are discovered, while having room and board covered.



I know. So what? Not every sport is a scholarship sport. What do you think's going to happen if every player has to get paid? Do you think the school's more likely to magically discover enough money to give $30k salaries for the guys on the freshman baseball team or to eliminate the freshman baseball team?

I absolutely despise the NCAA, for a lot of reasons. The notion that the players aren't getting paid, however, is not an honest notion.

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You added a lot to your post since I posted, but it's bedtime.

LOL @Snake Eyes beat me to it!

As a fmr non-scholorship athlete (baseball) I felt unimportant, neglected....and under the radar.

But in college I drank a ton of beer, met my wife and took every damn class I wanted when I wanted.