Brady in the 2015 MVP Race

Patsfan22 · Dec 14, 2015

primetime said:
It's pretty clear why Newton should win the MVP - his stats are great and his team is 13-0, and he's done it all with a supporting cast that makes Brady's look like the 49ers of the 1980s. The only reason you'd bring skin color into this is to downplay his accomplishments, implying that the reason he'd win over Brady is because he's black. An argument which frankly makes little sense given, you know, American history.

I agree that at this point he's the frontrunner. I'm just saying in my opinion if he loses form at the end and they lose a few games it won't matter because people like him more than Brady. You're downplaying Carolina's supporting cast. To start with, their defense is incredible. They have Kuechly, Norman, Thomas Davis, Charles Johnson etc. On the offensive side he has a much, much better O-line, Jonathan Stewart, Greg Olson, Ed ****son and some okay WR's (better than Martin/Harper/Dobson/Lafell that we've been relying on a lot the last few weeks) His WR's aren't great (Ginn can be good when he's on his game) without Benjamin but they're better than what we've put out the last few weeks. Lets not act like Carolina isn't one of the most complete teams in the league. They are stronger than the Patriots in many areas.

If you reread my post, I never said that he would only win because he's black. Just that if it was a 50/50 or a close decision he would get the edge. African-Americans have had a rough history in this country and that's still the case today but to many that's even more of a reason to vote for Cam.

Anyways I think I've explained my point as clearly as I can. I don't think we're going to agree on this so I'm going to move on for now. I expect the Panthers to go 16-0 so there won't really be a debate.

PatsGirl2011 · Dec 14, 2015

I think people are overrating team success when discussing MVP. It's an individual award and usually it goes to the best player in the NFL. However, because Brady is involved, there must be variance in the decision making on why he should not win it. There were plenty of times Peyton won it and the Colts played in wild card weekend while the Pats had a bye. The politics are unreal, and I do believe race is a factor even as a black woman myself. Many black ex players do not like Brady or like to acknowledge the Pats greatness because of their past failures against him, but they will champion for a guy because he's black. No one ever questioned who's the MVP when Peyton or Rodgers were leading, but there is always a reason why Brady should not. The argument that because the Panthers are undefeated Cam should win does not fly when Brady was the better player the majority of the season.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Dec 14, 2015

Kdo5 said:
I'm pretty much convinced Cam will win the MVP, which is fine. He is a deserving candidate. That said I hope the Panthers fall early in the playoffs. Not a big fan of Cam, I'd like to see them humbled.

Agreed. He deserves to win the MVP, but on a personal level, I just don't like him. Having fun is one thing; rubbing it in and acting like an @sshole after scoring a TD is quite another. There were also reports about him sulking the last few years and just being a poor leader in general. That is the one reason it is unfortunate he will win the award; he's a guy who is fine when everything is going well but crumbles under adversity. Then again, that's the typical MVP is a front runner, Adrian Peterson the only exception I can think of.

jah · Dec 14, 2015

Why do some of us feel the need to detract from Newton's success? I think Brady really is having the superior statistical year, and both have dealt with plenty of offensive injuries/lack of depth, but Newton truly does appear to be carrying that offense.

Snake Eyes · Dec 14, 2015

primetime said:
It's pretty clear why Newton should win the MVP - his stats are great and his team is 13-0

TFB's stats are better, as for the TEAM record it has something to do with the rest of the TEAM, if Chris Harper doesn't muff a punt there's a very good chance we win against Denver. It's entirely possible that a player can do everything right and because of his team mate things go wrong.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Also, TFB deserves the MVP.

patsrulenfl · Dec 14, 2015

Unless Carolina loses atleast 2 games and Cam is horrible in both and the Pats wins out and Brady keeps his consistency, I don't see Cam losing the MVP.

DefenseRules · Dec 14, 2015

Newton can have MVP. Carolina can have all the regular season accolades. I DON'T CARE. I just want the Pats to win another Super Bowl Championship, and I will die happy.

meatface · Dec 15, 2015

The media has gone full cam narrative, the Panthers would basically have to lose out for him to not win at this point

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Cunk · Dec 15, 2015

If the Panthers and Pats meet in the SB I would prefer Newton to be MVP and for the Panthers to be undefeated. Then we wouldn't have to deal with all the drama and extra babbling by the mediots about Brady winning an MVP while having the deflategate cloud hanging around. And wouldn't it be awesome to see the Pats go in and ruin an undefeated season?

It may not make any difference at all because these guys are professionals, but in my heart I'm thinking of a Brady saying "Ok, you think you're the MVP? Let me show you how an MVP plays." And the Pats as a team thinking "So you're undefeated? Great. Now let us show you what a real championship team is like."

I'd much rather not have the pressure of completing an undefeated season as we all experienced a few years ago. Too much pressure. Taking down the mvp and an undefeated team would be so sweet.

Patriot Missile · Dec 15, 2015

Don't have a problem with Newton winning the mvp. It is very close but when your team was predicted to go 8-8-9-7 and you put the team on your back to accomplish what they have, that is admirable. I'm still kind of in awe what they have done without Benjamin in there as I thought it was going to be another 8-8 division winner from the NFC south.

Personally I just want Brady to win the Super Bowl. Another MVP would be nice but not the end all like cementing yourself as the only Qb with 5 rings. He is already immortal with 4. I don't how I would describe 5. Time has a way of increasing legendary status once you walk away from the game.

50-yard-line · Dec 15, 2015

It's unbelievable to me that Carolina, 13-0 9and with a few regular season wins at the end of last year, has STILL played only 1 team (Green Bay, after Denver ate them for lunch) with a winning record in that entire stretch.

Holy crap, the gods aligned for Carolina. AND, they aren't playing physical teams, either, and have no major injuries other than a guy they lost in pre-season.

Still, if they go undefeated, the MVP will go to Cam, and it's hard to argue against that.

SalemPats · Dec 15, 2015

I think it's a great battle between Newton and Brady. I love Newton, i think he's a great, tough leader. I personally believe Brady should be the MVP because he has been dominant in every game, the td-int ratio is ridiculous, Newton started off a bit slow. But I have to give credit to Newton who has been lights out especially the last few weeks.

ivanvamp · Dec 15, 2015

Not that he'll get it, because he'd have to pass Brady, Newton, and Palmer, but Russell Wilson is charging down the stretch like Seabiscuit.

Last 4 games:

24-29 (82.8%), 260 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 138.5 rating, Sea scores 29 points
21-30 (70.0%), 345 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 147.9 rating, Sea scores 39 points
21-27 (77.8%), 274 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 146.0 rating, Sea scores 38 points
23-32 (71.9%), 292 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 139.6 rating, Sea scores 35 points

TOT: 89-118 (75.4%), 1,171 yds, 16 td, 0 int, 145.9 rating, Sea averages 35.3 points, going 4-0 over that stretch.

Patriot Missile · Dec 15, 2015

ivanvamp said:
Not that he'll get it, because he'd have to pass Brady, Newton, and Palmer, but Russell Wilson is charging down the stretch like Seabiscuit.

Last 4 games:

24-29 (82.8%), 260 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 138.5 rating, Sea scores 29 points
21-30 (70.0%), 345 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 147.9 rating, Sea scores 39 points
21-27 (77.8%), 274 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 146.0 rating, Sea scores 38 points
23-32 (71.9%), 292 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 139.6 rating, Sea scores 35 points

TOT: 89-118 (75.4%), 1,171 yds, 16 td, 0 int, 145.9 rating, Sea averages 35.3 points, going 4-0 over that stretch.

What happened when he played Carolina and Arizona?

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady · Dec 15, 2015

borg said:
My apologies..............from behind you looked like Pessimistic Pete

With regards to PP's "total yards =passing yards + rushing yards ".....that's a statistic that DOES NOT exist....so forgive me for not grasping this ground breaking moment in history ....the birth of an irrelevant statistic. You seemed to accept it quite easily though...No?

And for the OP who values big sum totals.....

Drew Brees.......# of seasons leading NFL in passing yards........5
Drew Brees.......# of seasons leading NFL in passing TDs..........4
Drew Brees.......# of AP MVP awards..........................................0

Regarding Newton........the perfect record (so far) breaks all ties. And his rushing stats are truly impressive .... especially when compared to real RBs this year. Prior to today, Newton is #4 in rushing TDs (7), #5 in rushing 1st downs (41).......even though real RBs carry the ball 50-150% more times than Newton. The OP's attempt to equate a passing yard with a rushing yard using a manufactured statistic in order to elevate TB12's credentials......devious.
The non measurables....Brady is the stud with all his weapons and Phillip Rivers like with wounded receivers. With the exception of TE Olsen, Newton has been working with JAGs all season. The guy has had to carry the team on offense with his legs in certain games. That wins him bonus points.
And lets not discount momentum......polar opposites right now. One guy is crushing it, our guy is chucking some bad INTs

I agree with the OP....it's not even close......but I say Newton going away (so far)

PS....Russell Wilson's stats are starting to resemble Newton's minus the win total. Another running QB forced to carry his team.

Newton's defense plays a huge part in his success and so does Olsen, w/o Olsen and those jag teams, he's been playing against all season, Newton is having another forgettable season for Carolina's bandwagon fans.

I knew Brady lost his chance at MVP the moment the refs robbed him at Denver. On top of losing his top receivers, Brady has had to play some pretty tough defenses. I don't know what happened at Philly, I guess he has a bad game every now and then, but to try and convince me that Newton is better than Brady at the moment is straight laughable. Stop listening to the hype, bought and pumped in by the league.

JJDChE · Dec 15, 2015

primetime said:
It's pretty clear why Newton should win the MVP - his stats are great and his team is 13-0, and he's done it all with a supporting cast that makes Brady's look like the 49ers of the 1980s. The only reason you'd bring skin color into this is to downplay his accomplishments, implying that the reason he'd win over Brady is because he's black. An argument which frankly makes little sense given, you know, American history.

Admitting that there may be a 'forced diversity' factor in the voting isn't downplaying Newton's
is accomplishments. He could be MVP completely on merit, but that doesn't mean that his skin color doesn't play into the voting.

I don't know who exactly does the voting, or if those people are swayed by skin color, but I really think you're sticking your head in the sand if you're saying it's not possible.

JJDChE · Dec 15, 2015

It'll be an interesting finish for Carolina. They are playing three teams that are still in playoff contention (two on the road) and two of them are divisional. So all three will be up for the game. Carolina is clearly better than all three but any one could jump up and catch them off guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see them at 14-2. Arizona has a tough, tough schedule down the stretch, but they would win the tiebreaker if they close out the season at 14-2 as well, pushing Carolina to the #2 seed. That could knock Cam down in the MVP. I do still expect him to win it, though.

I don't discount Wilson, either. Seattle is on an absolute tear. If they win out and Wilson keeps up his current pace (which is ridiculous) he has a reasonable shot.

primetime · Dec 15, 2015

JJDChE said:
Admitting that there may be a 'forced diversity' factor in the voting isn't downplaying Newton's
is accomplishments. He could be MVP completely on merit, but that doesn't mean that his skin color doesn't play into the voting.

I don't know who exactly does the voting, or if those people are swayed by skin color, but I really think you're sticking your head in the sand if you're saying it's not possible.

This issue didn't come up when Adrian Peterson won in 2013, when Ladainian Tomlinson won in 2006, when Shaun Alexander won in 2005, when Steve McNair won in 2003, when Marshall Faulk won in 2000, when Barry Sanders won in 1997, when Emmitt Smith won in 1993, when Thurman Thomas won in 1991, when Lawrence Taylor won in 1986, when Marcus Allen won in 1985, when Earl Campbell won in 1979, when Walter Payton won in 1977, when OJ Simpson won in 1973.... you see where I'm going with this?

You're handwaving away Cam Newton's accomplishments that have made him the frontrunner over Brady and explicitly saying that it's because the voters want "forced diversity." It's an inherently racist argument.

JJDChE · Dec 15, 2015

primetime said:
This issue didn't come up when Adrian Peterson won in 2013, when Ladainian Tomlinson won in 2006, when Shaun Alexander won in 2005, when Steve McNair won in 2003, when Marshall Faulk won in 2000, when Barry Sanders won in 1997, when Emmitt Smith won in 1993, when Thurman Thomas won in 1991, when Lawrence Taylor won in 1986, when Marcus Allen won in 1985, when Earl Campbell won in 1979, when Walter Payton won in 1977, when OJ Simpson won in 1973.... you see where I'm going with this?

You're handwaving away Cam Newton's accomplishments that have made him the frontrunner over Brady and explicitly saying that it's because the voters want "forced diversity." It's an inherently racist argument.

That statement is false. Patently false.

brdmaverick · Dec 15, 2015

I know, it's tough for us to take the human 'homer' element away from it, but if we were looking objectively there is just now way that Brady wins over CAM at this point. Let's face it, Cam has his team undefeated and is playing great. With the loss of Kelvin Benjamin at the beginning of the season, you could even say that Cam's weapons are far inferior to the Patriots. Olsen is good, but he's no GRONK.

If the Panthers stay undefeated then the voting won't even be close.

Brady in the 2015 MVP Race

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In the Starting Line-Up

I heard 10,000 whispering and nobody listening

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Practice Squad Player

Pro Bowl Player

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Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

In the Starting Line-Up

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In the Starting Line-Up

In the Starting Line-Up

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In the Starting Line-Up

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