Official Brady vs. NFL Federal Court 8/12 Thread (LIVE UPDATES)

SVN said:

I think the one strange part is he never question the NFL about their authority or precedence or equipment violation or anything . It was all about their sham investigation. While this exposed the NFL for their lies, maybe he is doing it so that his ruling if made against brady reflects he is only upholding the cba but believes nothing else.
Maybe this will come in the 19th hearing .

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That's what I fear. He's throwing out red meat and showing what a shoddy operation it was but I'm suspicious until he starts digging into that because that is what is at the heart of this. What I can't tell is whether he's getting at something that undercuts the entire "authority" issue by these early questions.

The judge hasn't begun to show his hand yet.

FirstAndGoal said:

What legal basis are you talking about?

The argument is whether Goodell overstepped his authority under one policy and the NFL is saying that's not the policy he's being punished for. There's legal disagreement but what's the "legal basis" for a Brady win? I don't see this as a clear case either way.

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As I understand it, it's mainly an issue of notice. That's how it's being framed in Kessler's brief.

Big-T said:

Couldn't Berman just over rule everything and say due to insufficient evidence the NFL acted unlawfully to suspend Brady in the first place?

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I think that once we get past all the media lawyers' legalese analysis, what we have is a judge that can do whatever he wants to for whatever reason he wants.

QuantumMechanic said:

I want to like today's action but I just can't get my heart into it given that things have broken against NE at every single decision point in this entire debacle

My big worry is that:
(a) Berman knows Brady got royally screwed
(b) But he feels that law + CBA language will force him to rule for NFL.
(c) Therefore he's being tough with the NFL to try to push things towards a just outcome (i.e. settlement mostly in Brady's favor) because if he's forced to render a decision he knows he will not be able to provide such an outcome.

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I'm confused. So only the Supreme Court justices can just make stuff up and ignore language & precedent and the Constitution while Federal judges are constrained to ruling on the actual law and precedent?

Hoodie said:

There are all sorts of rumors today that he and Gisele are breaking up. Interweb rumors so could TOTALLY be piling on.

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The twitterverse is blowing up with every minute of this. Dont know what the heck is going on.

YOUGOTMOSSED said:

As I understand it, it's mainly an issue of notice. That's how it's being framed in Kessler's brief.

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Yes, but the NFL is arguing that the policy that requires notice is not what Brady's being punished for. Now, I 100% think Goodell moved the goalposts once his lawyers advised him but the question is whether the judge sees it that way. I just don't know. I wouldn't put a bet on this one either way.

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/roger-goodell-vs-tom-brady-the-ultimate-revenge-of-mediocrity-story-20150812…




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Big-T said:

Couldn't Berman just over rule everything and say due to insufficient evidence the NFL acted unlawfully to suspend Brady in the first place?

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This is what I'm wondering after today's focus on evidence at the hearing.

All we've been hearing is "the CBA is on Goodell's side, it essentially gives him the power to do whatever he wants." But no matter how lopsided the CBA is, I have to imagine there needs to be SOME basis of evidence for there to be any charge against a player.

I think this is why Berman focused on the evidence today. He's measuring the fairness of Goodell/the NFL's actions as guided by the CBA. Whether or not there was substantial evidence on which to base any punishment is perhaps the largest part of that measurement. If there's little to no evidence, then any sort of punishment is indeed unfair.

I might be naive in these views, I don't claim to know a ton about the CBA or law, but the quality of evidence seems like a central issue, and Berman made it one today. I don't think he was doing that for show. He's trying to get this thing done ASAP, and he acted like it today.

A lot of comments prior to today by Stradley and McCann indicated the Judges will tip their hand to pressure one side or the other more.

In this case we have Berman first released the transcript of the hearing making Goodell look like a jerk, NFL wanted this transcript hidden. Next Berman hammered the NFL I open court, played soft toss with Kessler by comparison. Now we have Schfeter saying that Berman has given NFL settle or else message.

Goody has to decide I'd fine only for cooperation is better than vacated suspension.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I'm confused. So only the Supreme Court justices can just make stuff up and ignore language & precedent and the Constitution while Federal judges are constrained to ruling on the actual law and precedent?

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"We are not final because we are infallible, we are infallible because we are final."

NEPats1 said:

Schefter and Sal Paolantonio:

http://espn.go.com/boston/video/clip?id=13424357&ex_cid=espnapi_public

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Cannot believe that was on ESPN. That sounded negative for the NFL.

FirstAndGoal said:

Yes, but the NFL is arguing that the policy that requires notice is not what Brady's being punished for. Now, I 100% think Goodell moved the goalposts once his lawyers advised him but the question is whether the judge sees it that way. I just don't know. I wouldn't put a bet on this one either way.

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I understand that's what the NFL's position is but either there's a separate written players' policy in effect or there isn't. If there's an ambiguity about that, that should work to Brady's advantage. I suspect (and I'm too lazy to look) that the NFL is trying to pass off some vague "catch all" phrase like a "competitive integrity" clause in the players contract as sufficient notice.

I know people have quoted various things here from the CBA, but have they quoted this bit from the standard player contract that is in Appendix A of the CBA?

15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and
professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest
and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players.
Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw
or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix
an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling
activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of
attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct
reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or
professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the
opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to
fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely;
and/or to terminate this contract.

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So IANAL but that would seem to give some level of validity (in the context of the CBA) to Goodell-as-Commissioner's punishment. Whether or not Goodell-as-arbitrator was fair and unbiased is a whole different thing.

SVN said:

The twitterverse is blowing up with every minute of this. Dont know what the heck is going on.

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Does anyone else find it suspicious that while Brady is going through this court case someone leaks to a gossip magazine that Bradys having marriage problems? -I think the nfl strikes again. Lol

Tony2046 said:

Cannot believe that was on ESPN. That sounded negative for the NFL.

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Hopefully the skepticism displayed by Judge Berman will lead to more and more folks out there (non-pats fans) in general to finally start questioning the Wells Report. They won't listen to us Pats fans, but maybe (just maybe) a neutral judge can start to sway public opinion a bit.

Not to get everyone's hopes up but...

Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw 49m49 minutes ago
Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

QuantumMechanic said:

FWIW...

Michael McCann‏@McCannSportsLaw
Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

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I hope this isn't one of those "sharksofvegas" assurances.

ANGR89 said:

Does anyone else find it suspicious that while Brady is going through this court case someone leaks to a gossip magazine that Bradys having marriage problems? -I think the nfl strikes again. Lol

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Which rag did the NFL leak to?

Anything is possible but this doesn't jibe with G's birthday greeting to Tom.

ANGR89 said:

Does anyone else find it suspicious that while Brady is going through this court case someone leaks to a gossip magazine that Bradys having marriage problems? -I think the nfl strikes again. Lol

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yeah, I don't get the hate, wait wrong word...obsession...about throwing **** at walls and hoping it will stick...people take a lot of satisfaction in bringing people down, I mean obviously right.

I credit Brady's life coach for teaching him the ways to obtain physical AND mental strength...it must be hard when all the haters are so vividly against you at every corner. Our QB is a fighter in every way.

Hopefully he can draw some strength from his fan bases to continue to fight accusations from those that are, there is no other way to say it, blinded and motivated by jealousy...

karguy85 said:

Not to get everyone's hopes up but...

Michael McCann ‏@McCannSportsLaw 49m49 minutes ago
Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

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I will only believe it when it happens. This has been a strange 6 months without much to cheer for after the wells report. Who knows what the heck is going to happen.