EXONERATING EVIDENCE REVEALED IN APPEAL!!!

zoostation said:

Question: When the measure the balls, do they do that by weighing or sticking an air pressure gauge in via a ball pin? My guess and belief is 2 but want to make sure. Because if that is the case, every time you check a ball it is difficult to not let a little air out. Hell, if your an opposing team trying to look good in front of your "detective" GM you could "accidentally" let a lot of air out each time you check.

End this BS frame job and let the NFL world talk about Johnny Manzel or some other inferior team.

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they would use a pin, and the amount of air that escapes can really vary.
exponent claims it's negligible, but we've all seen that vid of the ref clumsily letting tons of air out.

weighing the balls is completely unrelated because the amount of gas in the ball doesn't change, disappear, escape, or whatever, it just compresses and decompresses -- but still the same amount of molecules.
psi is pounds per square inch, which is just a measure of force exerted per square inch of surface, not actual weight of any kind.
when gas heats up it expands and tries to basically increase volume.
water, on the other hand, expands when it freezes, which you can see pretty easily in your freezer, but the weight stays the same.

if you want to see any of this action firsthand just blow up a balloon and put it in the fridge for a half hour, and then maybe the freezer and see how it changes.

One of the great moments of this saga was when every dumb=*** talk show host in the world passed around footballs inflated to 12.5 PSI and footballs inflated to 10.5 PSI and handed them across the desk to another dumb-axe and said "I can feel the difference! I can feel the difference!"

Of course you could. That's why the NFL* made up that amount of difference.

cupofjoe1962 said:

Please kidnap Felger, Mazz & Tanguay - lock them in you cellar &
Read that to them 500 thousand times.

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Better still used the Clockwork Orange method.. aversion therapy at its finest..

PatsFanInVa said:

One of the great moments of this saga was when every dumb=*** talk show host in the world passed around footballs inflated to 12.5 PSI and footballs inflated to 10.5 PSI and handed them across the desk to another dumb-axe and said "I can feel the difference! I can feel the difference!"

Of course you could. That's why the NFL* made up that amount of difference.

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It has been an incredible PR frame job. The average non-Patriot fan, was just listening to NFL fed headlines and news article snippets which would leave you to believe that Brady shot the Pope in front of his mother.

You don't need to look any further than the Wells report itself for the exoneration, it is all already there.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ebuttal-of-wells-report.1120128/#post-4211649

emoney_33 said:

They need to point out that the report itself actually PROVES that the logo gauge was used for pre-game measurements of the Patriots footballs.

Exponent's logic for using the non-logo gauge was that the readings more closely matched those of other gauges, including the Patriots gauge that Jastremski used.

However, in the report, they witnessed a 0.7 PSI increase as an effect of rubbing. Jastremski notes that he adjusted the inflation of the balls to 12.6 *after* rubbing. This means that the balls were actually set to around 12.0 once the effects of rubbing wore off. Since the effects of rubbing wore off far before Walt Anderson measured the balls, if he used a gauge that closely resembled the readings on the Patriots gauge, he would have seen most balls at 12.0. The fact that he saw most of the Patriots balls at 12.5 means that he used a gauge that consistently read ~.5 higher than the gauge the Patriots used. The Logo gauge is the only gauge that makes sense.

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And for icing on the cake, that's the gauge that Walt Anderson remembered using as well.

eom said:

really, all this is fairly irrelevant because we're discussing stuff to the tenth of a pound psi when there is absolutely nothing in this process that's accurate to anywhere near that degree.

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Exponent went to a lot of trouble arguing that, with any one gauge, there was a great deal of precision. But the person doing the repeated measurements in the Exponent test knew what he was doing. That OBVIOUSLY was not the case with the NFL people. To prove this, we only need to look at the Wells report (page 70) and find out what they say for the intercepted football:

" The pressure of the Patriots ball that had been intercepted by the Colts was separately tested three times and the measurements—11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 psi, respectively— were written on athletic tape that had been placed on the ball for identification."

These three measurements, ranging 0.4 in psi, were made by the same person, using the same gauge. This is made clear on page 65 of the Wells report:

At Riveron‟s request, Daniel retrieved gauge that was near the air pump in the dressing area of the Locker Room, and they tested the intercepted ball three times before the balance of the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room. (note 36 cited: We believe that Daniel located and used the pressure gauge supplied by the Patriots. We further believe that this is the gauge that John Jastremski considers his normal gauge.)

The point: the same person using one gauge over and over again on one football is not sure of the actual pressure to a precision of less than 0.4 psi. The error bars are HUGE.

No way on God's green Earth, then, do similarly-untrained NFL people take one measurement with each of two gauges and tell us with any confidence that they know the actual value with a precision of less than 0.4 psi.

Patriots footballs: down 1.01 psi (one gauge) or 1.39 psi (the other gauge). Ideal gas law says to expect 1.0-1.2 psi drop.

The people doing the tests cannot distinguish 1.01 psi, 1.20 psi, and 1.39 psi from one another with one test. The error of the experiment is WAY TOO LARGE.

emoney_33 said:

And for icing on the cake, that's the gauge that Walt Anderson remembered using as well.

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another piece of supporting evidence that the ref's memory is right:

1) Anderson recalls that almost none of the footballs provided by the Patriots before the game required any adjustments. They were thus provided at about 12.5 psi, where Jastremski wanted them to be.

>conclusion: Jastremski's gauge must read similarly to the gauge that Walt Anderson used in his pregame tests.

2) Daniel used Jastremski's gauge at halftime to check the pressure on the intercepted ball. He found it to be at 11.5 psi (the average of 3 readings)

3) Guess what they found for the other 11 balls? THE SAME RESULT, an average of 11.49 psi, with the high reading gauge. The other gauge (which Andersen says he did not use) gave an average of 11.11 psi.

> conclusions: There was nothing special about the intercepted ball. It was normally de-pressurized by weather. It was presumably at the same pressure as its brothers, the other 11 balls, before the game, and it was still at the same pressure as its brothers at halftime, but only if the ref's memory is right about which gauge he used.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

another piece of supporting evidence that the ref's memory is right:

1) Anderson recalls that almost none of the footballs provided by the Patriots before the game required any adjustments. They were thus provided at about 12.5 psi, where Jastremski wanted them to be.

>conclusion: Jastremski's gauge must read similarly to the gauge that Walt Anderson used in his pregame tests.

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No, that is the logic Exponent used to conclude that Walt likely was mistaken and used the non-logo gauge because it more closely matches other gauges used including the Patriots. However, this is exactly the OPPOSITE.

At the time of Walt's pre-game measurements, Jastremski's gauge is expected to read the balls near 12.0 because they have now had time to equalize after the rubbing process. If Walt used the gauge (non-logo) that closely matched Jastremski's gauge, then he would have read several Patriots balls under 12.5.

Walt's gauge had to measure .4-.5 HIGHER than Jastremski's gauge, because Jastremski filled the balls after they were artificially high in pressure due to the rubbing process. The logo gauge is the gauge Walt remembers using and this gauge consistently measures .4 higher than the other gauges (including the one Jastremski used). It is the gauge that had to have been used, and the simulation under that assumption puts all the data completely in line with what the ideal gas law predicts.

This sums it all up:

Referring to the texts involved with the Jet's game and the balls being inflated to 16 psi.

Kessler Q. Even though it was all about inflation, you interpret it to be about deflation?

Wells A. That's correct, sir.

Just wow.

if the NFL* thought this was going to ever matter, all gauges would have digital readouts, they would be calibrated to the Atomic Gauge or something on game day, refs would have initial and recurrent gauge training, and most of all, refs accused of inflating a ball to 16 PSI would be investigated to find out why, fined if incompetent, and fired if found to be trying to fix the game.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

Exponent went to a lot of trouble arguing that, with any one gauge, there was a great deal of precision. But the person doing the repeated measurements in the Exponent test knew what he was doing. That OBVIOUSLY was not the case with the NFL people. To prove this, we only need to look at the Wells report (page 70) and find out what they say for the intercepted football:

" The pressure of the Patriots ball that had been intercepted by the Colts was separately tested three times and the measurements—11.45, 11.35 and 11.75 psi, respectively— were written on athletic tape that had been placed on the ball for identification."

These three measurements, ranging 0.4 in psi, were made by the same person, using the same gauge. This is made clear on page 65 of the Wells report:

At Riveron‟s request, Daniel retrieved gauge that was near the air pump in the dressing area of the Locker Room, and they tested the intercepted ball three times before the balance of the game balls were brought back to the Officials Locker Room. (note 36 cited: We believe that Daniel located and used the pressure gauge supplied by the Patriots. We further believe that this is the gauge that John Jastremski considers his normal gauge.)

The point: the same person using one gauge over and over again on one football is not sure of the actual pressure to a precision of less than 0.4 psi. The error bars are HUGE.

No way on God's green Earth, then, do similarly-untrained NFL people take one measurement with each of two gauges and tell us with any confidence that they know the actual value with a precision of less than 0.4 psi.

Patriots footballs: down 1.01 psi (one gauge) or 1.39 psi (the other gauge). Ideal gas law says to expect 1.0-1.2 psi drop.

The people doing the tests cannot distinguish 1.01 psi, 1.20 psi, and 1.39 psi from one another with one test. The error of the experiment is WAY TOO LARGE.

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This engineer posted about the huge error bars many times here. They swamp any faux evidence that the balls were outside the IGL parameters. Sigh.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

another piece of supporting evidence that the ref's memory is right:

1) Anderson recalls that almost none of the footballs provided by the Patriots before the game required any adjustments. They were thus provided at about 12.5 psi, where Jastremski wanted them to be.

>conclusion: Jastremski's gauge must read similarly to the gauge that Walt Anderson used in his pregame tests.

2) Daniel used Jastremski's gauge at halftime to check the pressure on the intercepted ball. He found it to be at 11.5 psi (the average of 3 readings)

3) Guess what they found for the other 11 balls? THE SAME RESULT, an average of 11.49 psi, with the high reading gauge. The other gauge (which Andersen says he did not use) gave an average of 11.11 psi.

> conclusions: There was nothing special about the intercepted ball. It was normally de-pressurized by weather. It was presumably at the same pressure as its brothers, the other 11 balls, before the game, and it was still at the same pressure as its brothers at halftime, but only if the ref's memory is right about which gauge he used.

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But what about the Bathroom? You forgot the McNally went to the bathroom.

Sarcasm folks.

I remember a few years back there was a thread on the music we should play coming out of the tunnel...

Just as a mind-fu(k I think we should play David Bowie/Queen, "Under Pressure"