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Would it take guts to appease the fans?


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I respect your opinion rayclay but I don't buy it. If Kraft is somehow working Magic behind the scenes and Goodell is fired I will be amazed.

But he specifically said he wants it to end, and the agenda of one team cannot override the other 31. I can't see why he would say that, he could have worked the back channels saying nothing. Really he could have worked those channels while appealing.

Basically I would have to believe that Kraft is actually thinking and doing the opposite of everything he's doing publicly. Why should I believe that? Sounds like saying pigs fly, but only when you aren't looking.
 
Goodell isn't going to rule against himself. why would he? Teams have no force of law, they approach prostrate and ask the dictator for mercy.
He wouldn't be ruling against himself. Jesus its a freaking appeal. Its not that complicated, it happens all the time. You rule on the facts presented against the 'accused' then the accused tells their side of the story and you consider those facts in issuing a new ruling. Goodell has reduced suspensions before. Why wouldn't he do it again? Wells has stated he is lacking information. Goodell said yesterday that he welcomes Brady offering new informaiton, new clarity or anything that will help get it right
I mean can we really sit here and discuss that you think everything everyone says is a lie, and you have a clear insight into what they mean but won't say? Didn't Wells do enough of that?

I suppose he could waste time and money on an appeal to set up a lawsuit, but i don't know what the grounds would be. Sue him for exercising the unlimited authority me and the other owners gave him?
Are you honestly telling me you care more about Krafts money than the Patriots legacy?
A lawsuit isn't even a consideration until you let the appeal run its course, and I agree it would have many problems to consider. But we are talking about appealing vs quitting and accepting guilt without argument.

Brady has a union opposed to management. The union has standing and a very good record against goodell.
Brady isnt fighting for the draft picks, or the legacy. If Brady wins, the legacy is still the owner accepted guilt without objection.
 
As TB said before the Superbowl, this game is all about honor. If you don't have honor, you are not deserved to be the owner of the best team in the world - the NE patriots.
Has anyone ever told the owner of a team to stay OUT of the locker room?????
 
In my opinion, he needs to work behind the scenes as long as it takes to unseat goodell. Making a big stink is more likely to set owners against him more, IMO.

Of course he's not going to tell people what he's doing, I'm sure the people he's trying to persuade might not realize it. All I know is, he needs 23 votes.
If Kraft was to do this and actually pull it off then I will be the first to come back here and eat crow, but unfortunately I just don't believe that is the case.
 
He wouldn't be ruling against himself. Jesus its a freaking appeal. Its not that complicated, it happens all the time. You rule on the facts presented against the 'accused' then the accused tells their side of the story and you consider those facts in issuing a new ruling. Goodell has reduced suspensions before. Why wouldn't he do it again? Wells has stated he is lacking information. Goodell said yesterday that he welcomes Brady offering new informaiton, new clarity or anything that will help get it right
I mean can we really sit here and discuss that you think everything everyone says is a lie, and you have a clear insight into what they mean but won't say? Didn't Wells do enough of that?


Are you honestly telling me you care more about Krafts money than the Patriots legacy?
A lawsuit isn't even a consideration until you let the appeal run its course, and I agree it would have many problems to consider. But we are talking about appealing vs quitting and accepting guilt without argument.


Brady isnt fighting for the draft picks, or the legacy. If Brady wins, the legacy is still the owner accepted guilt without objection.

Brady is a player with a union that negotiates with management regularly. goodell, even as he tries to make himself mediator, cannot just ignore fairness or the union will initiate a lawsuit which could bust up the labor agreement and the league.

Kraft is an owner. He and the others have agreed to give goodell unlimited powers. Kraft can beg him to change his decision, but that's all it will be. He has no leverage and he has no viable lawsuit if goodell chooses not to grant him any relief.

Goodell could have reduced the sentence at the owners meeting if he wanted to. what's the difference? Kraft already picked apart the wells report on a web site.
 
If Kraft was to do this and actually pull it off then I will be the first to come back here and eat crow, but unfortunately I just don't believe that is the case.

There might be legal action by the team if Brady doesn't get a fair shake, although i still think the union will bust him good in arbitration or a following lawsuit. If the players union revolts around brady that's going to shake the owners up. All sorts of issues come out from under the rocks.

If so, who could put that toothpaste backin the tube? Not goodell. No, the guy that stepped in and saved the labor agreement when the buffoon failed was that cowardly dumbell Kraft.

Hmmmm now that would be interesting. Goodell fails, the league has all sorts of exposure anti trust, eliminating the salry cap, what a mess. seems like someone who could put a lid on that would have a lot of leverage.
 
As TB said before the Superbowl, this game is all about honor. If you don't have honor, you are not deserved to be the owner of the best team in the world - the NE patriots.

Well, TB better work on his poker face, cause he'll get a chance to defend his honor tout suite.
 
Brady's honor and legacy is directly tied to that of that team, which is now irreparably damaged because of Kraft.

Also doesn't anyone here care about Belichick's legacy? Kraft threw him under the bus just as much as Brady. And Belichick doesn't even have an opportunity to clear his name like Brady does. He's fu.cked. He'll forever be known as the coach for the team that got severely punished for cheating twice.
 
There's a difference between doing what's unpopular and doing what's plain stupid.
 
Krafts got plenty of money. Do a dog and pony show of an appeal, lose and be a hero.

When he knows it's a waste of time [anyone argue that point?]

And it puts him against all the owners he'll need to vote Goodell out?

Seems to me, that would be the cowards way out. Do something stupid, waste money and time, but be a hero to the fans.

He knew what he did wouldn't be popular, but he did it. Doesn't it take a lot more guts to do the unpopular thing?

Thoughts?

You're repeating an error that has been called out many times already, and I'm sick of it.

Namely, you're implicitly claiming that the only possibilities were:

1. An appeal (or lawsuit).
2. A press conference with sycophantic language of abject surrender.
 
Brady is a player with a union that negotiates with management regularly. goodell, even as he tries to make himself mediator, cannot just ignore fairness or the union will initiate a lawsuit which could bust up the labor agreement and the league.

Kraft is an owner. He and the others have agreed to give goodell unlimited powers. Kraft can beg him to change his decision, but that's all it will be. He has no leverage and he has no viable lawsuit if goodell chooses not to grant him any relief.
Everyone everywhere acknowledges that lawsuit approach has major problems. I don't know why you keep responding to his failure to appeal, and his support of Goodell with the issues with a lawsuit.
He should have appealed. We all know he had a strong case. If he appeals with a strong case and loses, its on the record. There is no certainty whatsoever that he loses.
Once again, if the Patriots fall behind and quit is that OK? Kraft quit on Brady, the team and the fans.
In doing so he explained that it was because the wishes of the other 31 owners meant more to him that the Patriots. You can pretend that didn't happen all you want and create make belief excuses for him, but thats what he did and why he did it.

Goodell could have reduced the sentence at the owners meeting if he wanted to. what's the difference? Kraft already picked apart the wells report on a web site.
Perhaps he would have if Kraft appealed. Instead Kraft asked him not to by dropping it.
 
Well I wouldn't go that far. Most of my threads were speculative and were in anticipation of the Owner's Meeting. I commend Kraft for what he's done, but I've always felt as though he was the "weakest link" of the Bob-Bill-Brady chain: someone extremely business savvy and enthusiastic, but far too ingratiated into the NFL culture to fully advocate for the organization, when it came under attack. Some would argue that he's even lost touch with the fans - and Tuesday's fiasco was certainly proof of that!



Can't help it :p Never had a choice to choose the year I was born. Besides, I fell in love with Brady long before I ever could appreciate Kraft. #TB12

But Kraft isn't a player, he's an owner. He, more than any, has risked his own money betting the team and attendance would be enough so he didn't have to mortgaage his other businesses.

He's also a member of management. When the NFLPA tries to destroy the league in arbitration or court, he is by definition, on the other side. He forged the agreement for petes sake.this is a big reason, to me, he needs to stay out of this battle. He can no more turn around and attack the league as a player than he can grab a helmet and go on the field. Of course, being one of 32 people on the planet who can collectively get rid of goodell, he can do damage in his actual role.

I realize people can't help walking into continuous success, but there are lots worse owners than kraft and we've had, or almost had, some of them. It's amazing we actually have a team here and LA does not.
 
You're repeating an error that has been called out many times already, and I'm sick of it.

Namely, you're implicitly claiming that the only possibilities were:

1. An appeal (or lawsuit).
2. A press conference with sycophantic language of abject surrender.
The others were?....
 
But Kraft isn't a player, he's an owner. He, more than any, has risked his own money betting the team and attendance would be enough so he didn't have to mortgaage his other businesses.

He's also a member of management. When the NFLPA tries to destroy the league in arbitration or court, he is by definition, on the other side. He forged the agreement for petes sake.this is a big reason, to me, he needs to stay out of this battle. He can no more turn around and attack the league as a player than he can grab a helmet and go on the field. Of course, being one of 32 people on the planet who can collectively get rid of goodell, he can do damage in his actual role.

I realize people can't help walking into continuous success, but there are lots worse owners than kraft and we've had, or almost had, some of them. It's amazing we actually have a team here and LA does not.

Faulty logic. What Kraft has done in the past is totally irrelevant to the crap he pulled this week. Of course it would have taken guts to appease the fans. This clown that the owners made Commissioner may well be the worst Commissioner in the history of the league and is certainly the worst in pro sports right now, which is something of a miracle considering Adam Silver is a carbon copy of David Stern. He does more damage to the game of football every... single... year. He just concocted a dog and pony show of an "investigation" in which he used a hired gun to write a fraud of a report condemning the team that's a direct rival of his former employer based on zero concrete evidence whatsoever. There is more evidence that the league set this up to try and punish the Patriots for being... well... the Patriots than there is that Tom Brady had any knowledge whatsoever that the balls were being underinflated in malice or intentionally.

Based on that fraud of a report, the league punished the Patriots to the tune of two lost draft picks, including a first rounder, a fine, and suspended their franchise quarterback, the guy that has almost single handedly done more for this franchise and anyone else and has lined Kraft's pockets in process, 4 games while pretty much branding the team cheaters. Kraft, as an owner who says he appreciates and does what he does for the fans, should have stepped up to the bat in response. Maybe he could have gotten very little done in the process but he could have began publicly speaking out against the commissioner to continue to turn the tide on him. If you remember correctly, this assclown wasn't very popular after the Rice verdict (another instance in which the league tried to sweep everything under the rug) but was bailed out because of Kraft's support. For one thing, you can pretty much guarantee that Snyder and Jones don't like him behind the scenes. I'm willing to bet that Ross doesn't either after a similar smear campaign against his team two years ago. So maybe he couldn't have gotten him out of office but he could have at least cleared his team's and his quarterback's name in the process.

Instead, Kraft rolled over and took it in the ass for the "good of the 32". He did it to save his seat at the table of the Billionaire Boys Club because he realized that the bottom line, for him, is truly the money. Not the fans. Not his coach. Not his team's accomplishments. And certainly not his franchise quarterback, the GOAT, Tom Brady. He ****ed out. So yeah, it would have taken more guts to do the right thing. It usually does. Instead, Spineless Bob went the way of the jellyfish and he did so because he knows that it's not going to make a difference to his bottom line and fans like you who are currently trying to make excuse after excuse for a former fan that his since had his testicles removed.
 
I don't see why anybody would go to training camp or the pre-season. I hope it's empty.
 
Honest question:

I do agree that an appeal, IF presided by the very ones that applied the sentence in the first place, would be most likely a waste of time. I don't get the feeling that we would lose if an truly independent judge would be put in place, either in the appeal or on the lawsuit afterwards.

Have you guys already forgotten how full of holes this whole case was? How easy it was to undermine that piece of **** of a report?

Seriously, Kraft doesn't deserve ANY sort of praise or defense. He is a whore, and only cares for his money.
 
But Kraft isn't a player, he's an owner. He, more than any, has risked his own money betting the team and attendance would be enough so he didn't have to mortgaage his other businesses.

He's also a member of management. When the NFLPA tries to destroy the league in arbitration or court, he is by definition, on the other side. He forged the agreement for petes sake.this is a big reason, to me, he needs to stay out of this battle. He can no more turn around and attack the league as a player than he can grab a helmet and go on the field. Of course, being one of 32 people on the planet who can collectively get rid of goodell, he can do damage in his actual role.

I realize people can't help walking into continuous success, but there are lots worse owners than kraft and we've had, or almost had, some of them. It's amazing we actually have a team here and LA does not.

I think you are getting closer to the point.
Kraft is not on Brady's side. Sure he would love for Brady to not be suspended, but if Brady goes to court, Kraft is 1 of the 32 defendants. And anyone who thinks it will be about psi or 4 games when it reaches that point is kidding themselves. The NFLPA is going for the throat.

My issue with Kraft is that he simply handled this poorly and allowed himself to be raped by Goodell and the owners. First, he should have sat Goodell down in January and made him find the source of the leaks and fire them. The league is hurt worse than the Patriots by employing people who will leak. Second, he should have been involved in the Wells process. There is no way in hell that the Patriots should be exposed to 'non cooperation' because attorneys disagreed over the rights and obligations of an additional interview. Kraft should have been there to make sure this was handled correctly behind closed doors before it became public.
But most importantly, he was sold a bill of goods that punishing the Patriots unfairly and without evidence was someone in the best interest of the NFL. It is not. He should have never allowed the punishment to begin with (the failing here is that the owners cannot manage Goodell) but even if we take aside everything I've said up to this point, when it all came down, he needed to be a defender and champion of the integrity of his team. If wasting his time on an appeal he knew he couldn't win was the price of sending the message that his team has been falsely accused and convicted, then that is what he needed to do.
He not only failed to do that, but he stood up in front of America, and essentially said they found us guilty, we accept it, and won't argue. He chose for a franchise and fan base to take it lying down. He chose in the midst of being called cheaters to say he accepts that some people think that and chooses to not argue. He said it took too long. He said he could continue, but it wasn't worth it. He said his partners wanted the Patriots to accept a vicious and unfair penalty, so he has to because that is where his loyalty stands. He said what is best for the Patriots means less to him than what the other 31 owners feel is best for them.
I can understand big picture thinking that no team is bigger than the league, but what Kraft did was sell out his team for nothing. No good came of it. The league gains nothing by punishing the Patriots. It just came down to 31 men knowing the 32nd is weak and would fold, so they decided to make their own power play and show him he was insignificant to them.
 
Honest question:

I do agree that an appeal, IF presided by the very ones that applied the sentence in the first place, would be most likely a waste of time. I don't get the feeling that we would lose if an truly independent judge would be put in place, either in the appeal or on the lawsuit afterwards.

Have you guys already forgotten how full of holes this whole case was? How easy it was to undermine that piece of **** of a report?

Seriously, Kraft doesn't deserve ANY sort of praise or defense. He is a whore, and only cares for his money.

If you care about the reputation of your team, your QB and the good will of your fans, even if you think you would lose, you go there and get it on the record. You show it is important enough to fight for.

I also have no idea why people think it is logical that Kraft could make a compelling case of innocence and Goodell would chose to not care. Why would that be good for him?
 
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