Perspective - The dynasty keeps on...

BradyFTW! said:

Knowing that you're going to lose is no excuse not to appeal.

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When the person hearing your appeal tells you not to bother, it does. This isn't a court of law. It's a league with 31 other partners. None of them want an appeal either. They want dipshit commish to have ultimate power. He hammered Dallas and Washington. Then, the Saints. Now, us.

patsfaninpa said:

When the person hearing your appeal tells you not to bother, it does. This isn't a court of law. It's a league with 31 other partners. None of them want an appeal either. They want dipshit commish to have ultimate power. He hammered Dallas and Washington. Then, the Saints. Now, us.

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So you are saying that the appeal process in the NFL is a sham? That the NFL is only loosely interested in the appearance of due process? Good thing Kraft assures me this system it is in the best interest of the Patriots, or I might have gotten the wrong idea..

emoney_33 said:

I haven't changed the subject.

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Of course you have.

I have the NFL bylaws in front of me, you keep claiming **** that isn't there.

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I already linked it, you are wrong.

I said he has that POWER, which is a fact. You are just being emotional and demanding that everything would work out exactly how you think it could, even though you can't even produce to me where the NFL laws state that a franchise can appeal this discipline.

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You really are a moron, aren't you.
Where did I ever say what the result would be? Where did I ever suggest suing?
I already linked that he can appeal.

Because AndyJohnson said so.

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Yup. If you dispute that, show me what he has to lose by appealing and putting a case in his defense in front of Goodell.

So now your claim is that he's a bad businessman?

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If that was my claim, thats what I would have said.
You said defending his team would be about emotion. I corrected you that it would be about protecting his brand.

So do something that doesn't exist? There is an appeals process for player suspensions, there is NOT an appeals process for discipline to a member club under section 8.13 - Disciplinary Powers of the Commissioner.

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So what you are saying is that since he actually does have the right to appeal everything you have said so far is wrong?

You don't understand that suing is the ONLY way to dispute this. It's like telling someone to go to the HR department at a company that has no HR department.

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[/QUOTE]
Again, for the 50th time, he could have appealed.

Mack Herron said:

So you are saying that the appeal process in the NFL is a sham? That the NFL is only loosely interested in the appearance of due process?

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Yup.

patsfaninpa said:

You've got all the answers. What do you think Goodell told Kraft on Sunday? Ya know Bob, I'll be hearing your appeal if you make one. The other owners want this to stick. Not one owner has publicly backed Kraft. How would that appeal have gone?

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I think he would have won if he did a good job. He would have had to get enough science experts to prove that Exponent gaffed this one as bad as the second hand smoke. He would have had to get Deflator and Dorito Dink to testify. Goodell said with resepct to Brady that he wants to hear directly from him about anything that Wells missed, or that would help get it right.
Goodell may have a different view of the credibility of people involved. If he drew it out until after Brady wins his appeal he would have that verdict on his side.

If you are saying that Goodell blackmailed Kraft by saying that even if he proves his innocence beyond any doubt whatsoever that Goodell will unethically rule against him, and Kraft gave THAT speech, I have less respect for him than if he sold out for money.

Deus Irae said:

BadMoFo must be another one of those blindly defending Kraft. Go get him Joey! He's just tossing out a bunch of dislikes, and he's not even explaining them.

Oh, wait, you're tossing out the dislikes, too.

Must be more of that irony thing going around...

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#irony Remember?

patsfaninpa said:

You've got all the answers. What do you think Goodell told Kraft on Sunday? Ya know Bob, I'll be hearing your appeal if you make one. The other owners want this to stick. Not one owner has publicly backed Kraft. How would that appeal have gone?

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By the way, not sure what your comment means since my post is only linking the article that says the do have the right to appeal, and not a single word in the post was mine.

Joey007 said:

#irony

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#Notreallysinceiwasspecificallynotingonepersonbeinganassaboutit

AndyJohnson said:

You can extend it or end it.
You can put a stop to the rhetoric.

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Okay I'll give you that one

Mack Herron said:

So you are saying that the appeal process in the NFL is a sham? That the NFL is only loosely interested in the appearance of due process? Good thing Kraft assures me this system it is in the best interest of the Patriots, or I might have gotten the wrong idea..

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So what people are saying is that the league knows the Patriots did nothing wrong, but have decided to give them the biggest punishment ever, and told Kraft that if he walks into an appeal and proves his innocence he does harm to the league because the league gains something by punishing an innocent man?

Fans from other teams really must be getting a kick out of this. Fans turning on each other, etc. I refuse to give air pressure in a football that much attention.

We aren't representing the Jaguars, Bucs, or Browns here. Our team won the SB, went to the AFCCG four years in a row, and have a decent shot at returning again. The end of the world is not upon us. Yes, it sucks, but it's time to put things in perspective and move forward. No one died FFS.

supafly said:

Fans from other teams really must be getting a kick out of this. Fans turning on each other, etc. I refuse to give air pressure in a football that much attention.

We aren't representing the Jaguars, Bucs, or Browns here. Our team won the SB, went to the AFCCG four years in a row, and have a decent shot at returning again. The end of the world is not upon us. Yes, it sucks, but it's time to put things in perspective and move forward. No one died FFS.

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People have it in perspective. Their perspective is different than yours, and evidence-based. Your perspective is the same as emoney's, and he's literally living in a fantasy world when it comes to this topic, positing "scenario" after "scenario"".

AndyJohnson said:

I think he would have won if he did a good job.

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You should buy the Patriots. Who is Roberta Kraft btw?

emoney_33 said:

You should buy the Patriots. Who is Roberta Kraft btw?

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So thats what you are down to, wisecracks?
I guess you see your failure of an argument as clearly as I do now.

AndyJohnson said:

I think he would have won if he did a good job. He would have had to get enough science experts to prove that Exponent gaffed this one as bad as the second hand smoke. He would have had to get Deflator and Dorito Dink to testify. Goodell said with resepct to Brady that he wants to hear directly from him about anything that Wells missed, or that would help get it right.
Goodell may have a different view of the credibility of people involved. If he drew it out until after Brady wins his appeal he would have that verdict on his side.

If you are saying that Goodell blackmailed Kraft by saying that even if he proves his innocence beyond any doubt whatsoever that Goodell will unethically rule against him, and Kraft gave THAT speech, I have less respect for him than if he sold out for money.

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How the hell does Kraft win the appeal? Goodell was in on the decision to punish the Pats and Brady. He gets to be the arbitrator of the appeal. And, you think he's going to consider scientific evidence? Also, part of this is that we didn't let them interview McNally again. Goodell specifically mentioned non-cooperation was part of the reason for the punishment.

emoney_33 said:

It's clearly with the NFL and the Colts. He didn't accept guilt, he accepted REALITY. It's in the NFL bylaws that he cannot sue. But screw everything, blow up the NFL because they accused Brady of cheating!

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Can people stop f*cking saying this please. ***THE COURT DECIDES*** not the NFL, not the other owners, and certainly not people who are unfamiliar with the interpretation of contracts.

Jlaff said:

Can people stop f*cking saying this please. ***THE COURT DECIDES*** not the NFL, not the other owners, and certainly not people who are unfamiliar with the interpretation of contracts.

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For some reason, the Kraft defenders seem to think that the NFL can grant itself sovereign immunity.

AndyJohnson said:

So thats what you are down to, wisecracks?
I guess you see your failure of an argument as clearly as I do now.

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My argument stands, I just don't care to continue it. Who is Roberta Kraft?

supafly said:

Fans from other teams really must be getting a kick out of this. Fans turning on each other, etc. I refuse to give air pressure in a football that much attention.

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It's not air pressure in a football any more. It's the only voice that we have that matters accepting a verdict of guilty without appealing. Hell, I think even Charles Manson appealed.
Its a disgrace that this franchise is being made a laughingstock, and that is to people who have never logged in to this board.

We aren't representing the Jaguars, Bucs, or Browns here. Our team won the SB, went to the AFCCG four years in a row, and have a decent shot at returning again. The end of the world is not upon us. Yes, it sucks, but it's time to put things in perspective and move forward. No one died FFS.

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And when we won the SB we were accused of cheating to do it.
Our owner saw the evidence that we all see as weak at best and more likely non-existent, and said "We will accept that we are guilty and say no thank you to our right to appeal and prove we are not"
THAT is what this is about.
Had Kraft stood behind his team and franchise, QB and fans, and presented the evidence of innocence that was not included in the verdict, we would stand behind him. Instead he told us that somehow requesting a second look did damage to 32 teams more severe than being judged a cheater did to the Patriots. I don't understand that and don't know how anyone could.

emoney_33 said:

My argument stands, I just don't care to continue it. Who is Roberta Kraft?

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You have not adjusted your argument to having learned that Kraft could have appealed.
Most of your meandering bluster was based upon that not being an option.
If you are interested in intellectual integrity you should repost your feelings based upon yuo r knew knowledge.