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MediaGate: 13 psi -> 9 psi outdoors after 30 minutes


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One hour ago, a video was posted on YouTube by a random woodworker who has multiple tools to test multiple measurements. For each of temperature and pressure, he has a fancy tool and a simple tool.



INDOORS: Inflating the ball to 13 PSI with a hefty electronic pump and removing the needle quickly, and then testing it with a manual tire pressure tool, removing the needle quickly, and going back to the electronic pump, shows the ball now at 11 PSI. That's because you always lose a bit of air by testing again. The other issue is that even a fancy pump is only accurate to 0.5 PSI, so that's already 0.5 PSI leeway in favor of the Patriots. Basically, just testing the ball over a 5 hour period indoors will show a loss of PSI.

OUTDOORS: Inflating the ball indoors to 13 PSI with the electronic pump, and bringing it outside to Foxborough weather for only 30 minutes, dropped the pressure to 9 and 9.5 PSI. Seriously.

Remember that in the real game, the balls had 4+ hours to adapt to the outdoors.

Did the Colts cheat and over-inflate their balls to 16 PSI, which the referees allowed, so that they were still valid later in the game once they lost air pressure?

Of course nobody would say that. The most logical answer is that their balls were inflated outdoors (or stored in the un-heated luggage compartment inside their bus) and likely kept them on the bus next to the practice field and handed them off directly to the officials once they were ready to practice so they didn't have to leave them inside with the hosts. There was no pressure change for Colts to deal with.

Did the Patriots cheat and remove air after giving the balls to the referees?

Of course not. This video shows the most logical explanation that a Wilson ball can lose 4 PSI in 30 minutes once it's brought outside. The hosts store and pump up their game balls inside, as there is no reason to store or bring the balls outside 2.5 hours ahead of the time in the cold and heavy rain when the referees can check them indoors away from heavy rain.

If cold temperature brings the air pressure down by 4 PSI in a cheaper Wilson after 30 minutes, we can assume that air contracts just the same in a more expensive ball, especially after 4-5 hours, too. The air doesn't care how fancy the container is, assuming that synthetic leather stretches and conducts temperature fairly similarly to real leather.

If the real game balls deflated by only 2 PSI after 4-5 hours, then it looks like the media owes the Patriots an apology.

According to reports, referees do not normally measure the air pressure at half-time, and often do not measure the balls before the game, either. Therefore, the NFL must repeat this simple test with real game balls, which I'm sure the Patriots have already lent to the NFL to make the test as real as possible (new balls might behave differently.) And even in the case something doesn't add up, they would have to guess how much of an effect it had in the first half, which is none.

Unfortunately, the Patriots could not simply inflate the balls themselves once they deflated without being called cheaters (we would have InflateGate instead of our current MediaGate).


This needs to be sent to the NFL pronto.
 
The counterarguments are that the weather was reasonably warm that day and that, supposedly, the Colts' balls weren't deflated.

Nope. Wrong again. The colts balls dont have any bearing at all on what was going on with ours because they were not inflated in the same equipment/envrionment.

If ours were prepared at higher temperature than the Colts were there goes any way to compare. Conveniently this also explains everything else.. how the balls were still good when they were checked and how they dropped below outside despite the relative warm weather.
 
The struggle we have as pats fans is recognizing that we are not involved in a logical, rational debate. No amount of evidence or valid arguments will make this witch hunt go away. It's a nice find but it won't change minds that don't care about facts. Which is most of them. If people were patiently waiting for the nfl report before setting their minds it would be a different story. But as it stands, the angry mob wants no facts.

The mob is being manipulated by the mediots. It's a little bit troubling to see how effective they can be.

But, we have Bill. And he'll use it to fire up the team.

If we win it will make it that much sweeter to me.
 
Would the pressure go back up if the ball was brought back to warming/room temp, or would it stay at the amount it went down to after getting cold outside?
 
Would the pressure go back up if the ball was brought back to warming/room temp, or would it stay at the amount it went down to after getting cold outside?

PSI would go higher... but would not be immediate (may take half hour or longer) and will depend on the room temp.
 
If I were Kraft I would retain a physicist or other scientist/engineer at MIT or Harvard to simulate the conditions that the footballs were placed at various times. Then he or she could write a brief expert report to introduce as evidence to rebut this claim.

If there is a significantly penalty and no evidence of foul play, Kraft should retaliate. He really needs to back his employees here.
 
PSI would go higher... but would not be immediate (may take half hour or longer) and will depend on the room temp.

Except for the pressure lost during the two tests, which would total 1 psi if the video is correct.
 
PSI would go higher... but would not be immediate (may take half hour or longer) and will depend on the room temp.

Why? Because it takes time for the temperature inside the ball to equalize with that outside?
 
The mob is being manipulated by the mediots. It's a little bit troubling to see how effective they can be.

But, we have Bill. And he'll use it to fire up the team.

If we win it will make it that much sweeter to me.
I have no doubt that they will win two Sundays from now...
 
Would the pressure go back up if the ball was brought back to warming/room temp, or would it stay at the amount it went down to after getting cold outside?

When you bring the ball outside on a chilly day, the air inside the ball cools down and the air molecules slow down. They bounce less because they're moving slower, and the container (the ball) is much easier to squeeze, and the pressure gauge records a much lower air pressure inside the ball.

Yes, when you bring the ball back inside, the pressure goes back up as the air inside the ball warms up. The amount of air in the ball does not change, but the molecules start rough-housing as they move faster and push the pigskin outward.

The amount of air in the ball does not change.

I wish the guy checked if the ball leaks air by leaving it alone indoors for 30 minutes first. Or, he should bring the ball back inside for an hour and measure the pressure went back up to the original amount.

As a side note, the video also demonstrated that taking each measurement involves inserting and removing a needle from the ball, which leaks a bit of air out of the ball, which reduces the pressure for subsequent measurements, too.
 
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why doesn't the nfl do this simple experiment themselves before dropping the hammer on the Pats...did they even think to?
 
Would the pressure go back up if the ball was brought back to warming/room temp, or would it stay at the amount it went down to after getting cold outside?

The pressure would go back up, but not instantly. It would take the air in the ball some time to equilibrate to whatever the ambient temperature is. I can't think of a good way to estimate the time constant - would need another experiment like the one in the video.
 
The counterarguments are that the weather was reasonably warm that day and that, supposedly, the Colts' balls weren't deflated.

For the last day or two I've been thinking about that "the Colts balls weren't deflated" data point. And have a couple questions for anybody and everybody both here and in the media:

Assuming that the Colts footballs were indeed re-measured and found up to spec. Under what conditions were the Colts balls rechecked?

Was it outside in the cold and rain at halftime or at the end or the game? Because if they weren't, then comparing the Pats' footballs and the Colts' footballs is meaningless, scientifically speaking.

Were the Colts' footballs checked outside at halftime or after the game and found to be 13 PSI? Then assuming it can be empirically shown that pro footballs lose pressure in wet 50 degree weather (as in the video), something was mighty odd about the Colts' footballs. Not the ones the Pats used.

Did they bring the Colts footballs back inside to measure them? It wouldn't surprise me. The weather sucked. After the game I'm sure everybody wanted to get inside where it was dry. If they were brought inside, how long were the Colts' footballs inside before they were measured? Measuring them within minutes of getting inside would be the most scientifically meaningful. But if they were brought inside and allowed to come up to inside room temperature then it's no surprise they were within spec. Of course the pressure was significantly different that the cold, wet Pats' footballs.

On edit: Basically what TxPat and Twentytothree were saying. I posted this before reading the whole thread.
 
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This is indeed encouraging from a the Pats' standpoint, BUT!...

I highly doubt the Colts would temper with their own balls at the expense of risking sloppy performance by their own offense, just to nail the Patriots. I think a win for them is more important than nailing the Pats on something.

Did they measure the Colts balls to compare?

The Colts cheated?"

Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

I doubt cheating. The kid ball boy on the Colt sideline may have just been cold and hung out by the heater, with the bag of balls. And yes, it helps even if it was a Rugby ball. The math, without experiment, showed it need to be -77.

Any decent scientist knows a replicable experiment trumps previously assumed stuff. Yes, there is plenty wrong. It was a guy in a basement. Let's see the multi-million dollar business of the NFL do it right. It'll take about an hour. We'll give them two.
 
The mob is being manipulated by the mediots. It's a little bit troubling to see how effective they can be.

But, we have Bill. And he'll use it to fire up the team.

If we win it will make it that much sweeter to me.

The media manipulation isn't a little troubling, it's a LOT troubling. The media can set the agenda by what they choose to report on and what they don't.

Studies have shown people give more credence to news reported on television and the people who report them. If they reported it on television then it must be true.

The media also controls the narrative by the emphasis that they give to a report. They are hammering away at any news, rumor, or gossip about Deflategate, and the lack of a vocal opposition let's the unchallenged charges sink in and take root.

From what I understand this is even a big story internationally. If the case cannot be proven against the Pats where do they go to get their reputation back? The damage is done.

In the meantime a clear cut case of tampering by the Rats goes unreported on or followed, and becomes a non-story due to lack of media interest.
 
I doubt cheating. The kid ball boy on the Colt sideline may have just been cold and hung out by the heater, with the bag of balls. And yes, it helps even if it was a Rugby ball. The math, without experiment, showed it need to be -77.

It needed to be -77 for what?
 
I had made this same argument on day one in another thread ( possibly the main deflate gate thread) .., this is basic scientific knowledge and I have been embarrassing dumb people with this fact all week. Just look at your tire pressure monitoring in any late model car or truck. My tires were at 36 psi when I set them in the warmer weather... Now they have all uniformly dropped to 31 psi and I am getting a "low tire pressure" warning. The same will happen this spring/summer when I will have to let air out of my tires to get them back down to 36 psi, once the warmer temperature raises the psi...... This is such basic knowledge that should have been learned at the middle school level, that it should embarrass anyone who doesn't know this. And it's not like I have a doctorate in earth sciences... I have only a high school diploma (which is a big regret of mine) and it was a public school in a lower economic area. No special training there
P.s. I have been routinely setting the tire pressure and me and my wives cars to higher than suggested in the early fall... Expecting them to drop in the colder weather. This practice was taught to me in high school in 1994 by my auto-mech teacher. I assume that the same science applies 20 years later.
This is my first year with a new car that has the monitoring, so I let it be, just to see how bad it would be affected
 
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Why? Because it takes time for the temperature inside the ball to equalize with that outside?

Yes, and halftime is not enough time for the air inside the ball to equilibrate, as leather is a poor heat conductor.

Using Charles Law, you can using fundamental principals explain the loss of 1 psi bringing a ball from a 68 degree room to a 50-degree stadium. Add some pressure loss for the measurement, and you are quite close to the range of accuracy of the gauge. Add in the potential for leaking with balls that are abused and there is no way to prove anything short of videotape of a ball boy tampering with the footballs. That said, I await further stupidity from Commissioner Blowhard and the extra-special brand of mediots that flock to the superbowl.
 
Do you understand why the NFL was distraught and disappointed in the under inflated balls?
The NFL has its own credibility issues. And they are pressured by the outside media and the rest of the country to get a pound of flesh out of what they know is a trivial violation of the rules.
Somebody is going to swing from this and it shouldn't happen but likley will.
I don't blame BB for not taking one in the neck for the team he already did that.
I gotta feeling he has told the team that if you do something outside the rules it on yo
 
Yes, and halftime is not enough time for the air inside the ball to equilibrate, as leather is a poor heat conductor.

That time is shortened by rain. Water is a significantly greater conductor of heat.

Thermal conductivities (at 25 deg C):

Air = 0.024
Water=0.58

So Water is roughly 24 times as conductive.
 
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