Tapes???

rochrist said:

Wait...I thought we weren't supposed to talk about that...

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Well now.... I effed up again, apparently. I'll be in my own bunker for a nice timeout, then.

Sigh.

Gwedd said:

Next thing you know, the spygate commandoes will be claiming that Belichick had a secret bunker built under Gillette stadium where he & Kraft keep Jimmy Hoffa's remains, the Roswell crash debris, and the dismantled sets that Stanley Kubrick used to film the fake moon landings for NASA........

These guys who keep pushing that whole "Patriots cheated" mantra are exactly the type of people who would believe that stuff.

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Do you have any proof they don't?

Froob said:

Do you have any proof they don't?

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Be cool if they did.

Nordberg said:

I just don't get why every time I read a spygate article is always says that the tapes were burned and we will never know what was on them. That's ********.....

My guess is the tapes that were destroyed had exactly the same footage on them as the one that ran on fox back in 07.

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As others have pointed out, there are three sets of tapes: The Jay Glazer tape, taken from Matt Estrella during the game 1 in 2007, the Matt Walsh tapes, and the tapes destroyed by the NFL at Gillette in 2007.

The Glazer and Walsh tapes were shown on TV and show the same type* of thing: A repetition of the scoreboard (for time, down and distance, etc) and the defensive signals being sent in from the sideline. Some of the Walsh tapes were more of a finished product, editing the signals in to coincide with the game footage. It stands to reason that the tapes the Patriots turned over to the NFL were the same as Walsh tapes, defensive signals matched up with game action.

It's important to note that the "finished product" tapes were of the entire game. If Patriots goal was to decipher the signals after the first quarter or half time, it wouldn't make any sense to tape signals the entire game or go to the trouble of editing them after. They would have found what they needed during the game. That they taped the whole game fits in with Belichick's interpretation of the rule. He thought he was okay as long as nothing was being done with the footage during the game. As it turned out, he was wrong, but Matt Walsh's interviews also support this. He was consistent in telling Specter, Goodell, the New York Times, etc, that he filmed the entire game and only turned the film over to someone after it was over. In fact, he said, in some cases, he wouldn't give the tapes to anyone else until a day or two after the game. The idea that the Patriots were gaining an in-game advantage isn't supported by any real evidence. In terms of answering the "If it didn't help, why did they keep doing it?" question, it helped them prepare for the next time they would face that team or coach or coordinator.

Something else that doesn't add up to me about the "NFL found more incriminating stuff and destroyed it to protect the Patriots" theory is why would the Patriots hand over any more "incriminating stuff?" They knew the league was coming for a visit and knew what they were looking for. Hypothetically, if they had stolen playbooks, hidden cameras, and mind control devices, why would they tell the NFL about them? If I was pulled over for speeding, why would I tell the police officer that I was also embezzling money from work? If the Patriots really were this corrupt and devious organization people believe they are, I don't think they would just crack at the first sign of trouble.

*Some shots of cheerleaders were also included.

I'm a Pats fan living in Northern Virginia. Around here the average fan is so ignorant and it's all because of ESPN, random websites, etc.

I was speaking with some guy before the Colts game and he says to be 'you guys should win but youre not allowed to do anymore illegal substitutions' and some other guy beside him says 'what illegal substitutions'. First guy replies 'oh they were doing these illegal formations...' WTF. This is the problem with all this. One random choke or reporter makes an unfounded or untrue statement and every random fan believes it. It's so frustrating especially living in a place where I'm the only Pats fan around.

Also, what's pushing this crap further is slander from journalists. Case in point the reporter who broke this Deflategate horse**** was on Dennis & Callahan and he mentioned how at one point the Patriots taped practices and Callahan corrected him saying no they didnt. He replied 'well whatever'.

WELL WHATEVER?! When you have a 'respected' journalist making completely false allegations it's no wonder everyone believes anything.

yawn...

Estrella sells his ring ... I wish I could afford to buy one of those rings.

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...-for-nearly/SQkJwb3f6CdJAcs9C1Q8NN/story.html

The former team videographer at the center of the Patriots’ Spygate scandal sold his title ring from the AFC Championship Game played in Jan. 2008 for $16,940, according to Goldin Auctions.

Matt Estrella was the Patriots’ videographer caught filming the New York Jets’ defensive coaches during Week 1 of the 2007 season. The diamond-encrusted, 10-karat gold ring is the same version given to players on that year’s team, according to the item listing.

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Koma said:

As others have pointed out, there are three sets of tapes: The Jay Glazer tape, taken from Matt Estrella during the game 1 in 2007, the Matt Walsh tapes, and the tapes destroyed by the NFL at Gillette in 2007.

The Glazer and Walsh tapes were shown on TV and show the same type* of thing: A repetition of the scoreboard (for time, down and distance, etc) and the defensive signals being sent in from the sideline. Some of the Walsh tapes were more of a finished product, editing the signals in to coincide with the game footage. It stands to reason that the tapes the Patriots turned over to the NFL were the same as Walsh tapes, defensive signals matched up with game action.

It's important to note that the "finished product" tapes were of the entire game. If Patriots goal was to decipher the signals after the first quarter or half time, it wouldn't make any sense to tape signals the entire game or go to the trouble of editing them after. They would have found what they needed during the game. That they taped the whole game fits in with Belichick's interpretation of the rule. He thought he was okay as long as nothing was being done with the footage during the game. As it turned out, he was wrong, but Matt Walsh's interviews also support this. He was consistent in telling Specter, Goodell, the New York Times, etc, that he filmed the entire game and only turned the film over to someone after it was over. In fact, he said, in some cases, he wouldn't give the tapes to anyone else until a day or two after the game. The idea that the Patriots were gaining an in-game advantage isn't supported by any real evidence. In terms of answering the "If it didn't help, why did they keep doing it?" question, it helped them prepare for the next time they would face that team or coach or coordinator.

Something else that doesn't add up to me about the "NFL found more incriminating stuff and destroyed it to protect the Patriots" theory is why would the Patriots hand over any more "incriminating stuff?" They knew the league was coming for a visit and knew what they were looking for. Hypothetically, if they had stolen playbooks, hidden cameras, and mind control devices, why would they tell the NFL about them? If I was pulled over for speeding, why would I tell the police officer that I was also embezzling money from work? If the Patriots really were this corrupt and devious organization people believe they are, I don't think they would just crack at the first sign of trouble.

*Some shots of cheerleaders were also included.

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That is a very insightful observation about the finished tapes having been of an entire game and not just the first half. Hell, if the shots of the cheerleaders came during the half then that is all the proof anyone should need that the tape wasn't being taken out and dissected during half-time and used in the second half of the game.

I always knew that filming defensive signals was perfectly legal from the press box, but I never had a reason for why the Patriots chose to do so from the sidelines. Recently I read an article that answered this question very concisely. The press-box is on the home side of the field. If the visiting team wants to film what is perfectly legal for the home team to do, they physically have to do it from their own sidelines.

Goodell lies about his past, lies about his Jet employment, uses heavy juice to get elected commissioner over far far far far more qualified candidates. His 2nd in command , Kensil, quits an executive position high up in the Jets organization after TWENTY YEARS...
TWENTY YEARS!!~!!!!!

..to work under Goodell as chief hatchet man...and what is the FIRST thing these two rotten ****in' scumbags do?

white...waddles...quacks...has orange beak...ANY IDEA what it is? when are you surrender monkey minimizers going to open your goddamned eyes? The destruction of the tapes was PLANNED!!! When, after they were gone, did Goodell EVER answer ANYTHING? He let the media and the mongoloid Joey Porter army run amok slandering the Patriots, Bob Kraft ,Bill Belichick and its players. ENOUGH OF THIS SH!T.

I don't care what conspiracy theories the envious, spiteful haters think. Every time someone calls the Patriots cheaters, they just expose themselves as idiots.

100 is the average American IQ. Now imagine how many people need to be below that for 100 to be the average.

For the most part, that's who you're arguing with over Spygate. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Deflategate reminded everybody how stupid people are here. Don't be dragged down by it. Just enjoy the wins, and the greatest NFL Dynasty there ever was. Tell everyone else to go **** themselves.

Danger Zone said:

That is a very insightful observation about the finished tapes having been of an entire game and not just the first half. Hell, if the shots of the cheerleaders came during the half then that is all the proof anyone should need that the tape wasn't being taken out and dissected during half-time and used in the second half of the game.

I always knew that filming defensive signals was perfectly legal from the press box, but I never had a reason for why the Patriots chose to do so from the sidelines. Recently I read an article that answered this question very concisely. The press-box is on the home side of the field. If the visiting team wants to film what is perfectly legal for the home team to do, they physically have to do it from their own sidelines.

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I hadn't even thought of that. I never really noticed, though, if all the team personnel leave the sideline at halftime. Obviously, the players, coaches and officials leave. It might be a little conspicuous if there was one guy left on the sideline with a camera pointed at the cheerleaders.

Still, the presence of the cheerleader footage is overlooked in this story. Everyone acknowledges it's there, but no one questions why, if filming signals was so important to the Patriots success (according the the spygate truthers), they were filling the eye candy quota at the same time. Wouldn't some have told the camera guys, years earlier, "We can't afford to mess this up. The coaches need this for the team to win. Stop filming the girls and concentrate on your job."

It would be like, if a company was engaged in corporate espionage, telling an employee to go undercover in a competitor's office to steal important files, but also stressing that they must get some pictures of cute female employees they see there.