T.J. Ward

1960Pats said:

I thought Ward's own words told us that he intended to go after Gronk's knee again. Which he did. He took about a ten yard run and went straight after the right knee. Thank God that Gronk saw it coming just in time to get his leg off the ground, or he might have been gone for another playoff run.

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No. Ward said that if he had to tackle Gronk he would tackle him low. Thats what he did.
Players 10 yards away get a 10 yard running start before they tackle.
It was only people on this board who turned his comments, or the play, into any kind of attempt to injure.

AndyJohnson said:

It was very common for DBs especially safeties to try to lay out a WR. And it was unabashedly done as a means to intimidate and make receivers fear coming over the middle.
I think the hit by Tatum on Stingley was one that happened similarly hundreds of times, just not with the same result.
The fact that it was a preseason game may have made it less likely, but that was part of being a safety in that era. The part about hitting him even after the ball was past is something that happened all the time. In those days the mantra was if you can make a hit make it, never pull back.

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If it was common then why would Tatum have a reputation as a head hunter/enforcer? He would not have stood out among all the players making those "common" hits.

....is a jackass

I'm sorry, but I shed no tears for TJ Ward or Nick Mangold. They both deserve what they get - they are two of the dirtiest sonzabeaches in the NFL.

Now, if only Bernard Pollard could get his just desserts.

Bobsyouruncle said:

If it was common then why would Tatum have a reputation as a head hunter/enforcer? He would not have stood out among all the players making those "common" hits.

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Huh? You think his reputation was because of that play?
In those days that reputation didn't really mean illegal.

Armen Da Pats Fan said:

I'm sorry, but I shed no tears for TJ Ward or Nick Mangold. They both deserve what they get - they are two of the dirtiest sonzabeaches in the NFL.

Now, if only Bernard Pollard could get his just desserts.

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Pollard was actually placed on injured reserve in early October for a ruptured achilles.

TBR said:

Pollard was actually placed on injured reserve in early October for a ruptured achilles.

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There you go. The trifecta is complete.

AndyJohnson said:

Huh? You think his reputation was because of that play?
In those days that reputation didn't really mean illegal.

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No, I'm saying if Tatum was doing the same normal everyday hits as everyone else in that era he would be indistinguishable from everyone else. He would not have a reputation for being a headhunter if he were the same as every other safety.

The player uniquely known as a head hunter who wants to hurt people ended up being the player who made the hit that was uniquely brutal and paralyzed someone. So it certainly seems far more likely that Tatum was a dirty player making dirty hits (even uniquely dirty in that era), then that he was a typical guy making typical hits in that era. Otherwise you'd have to claim that for whatever reason everyone chose to undeservedly single him out with that reputation over everyone else, and he also coincidently made the hit that paralyzed someone that somehow all the players making the same hits never managed to do.

Off The Grid said:

It's not because it's the Broncos, Fool. It's because it's Ward.

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I'm well aware OTG, I can read. I've read the childish belligerence in this thread. I didn't call anyone on here any names while I did it either. No need to call me any for disagreeing.

PATSNUTme said:

Most of us won't wish injuries on players. But once it does happen to someone like Ward, it's a little phoney to say you fell bad for him. I don't feel anything for him.
'Live by the sword, die by the sword".

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How is that phony? Can someone not be against someone taking dangerous shots at someone knees, and also able to wish for non-paralysis from the person taking shots?

Speak for yourself, it may be a phony reaction for you but it's a perfectly rational reaction.

speaking of phones...I got this call the other day..

brrrrnnnnng...brrrrrrnnnnng...hello, Joe Kerr School of Good Looks...what's that?...when will Dan get his ring??...what is this, a joke?...I'll tell you once...Dan is done..D-O-N-E....Done Noringo...tell Shula to stop spitting up his oatmeal all over the freakin' floor...I gotta pay these Guatemalan janitors almost half of minimum wage!.....*slam!*..

Armen Da Pats Fan said:

I'm sorry, but I shed no tears for TJ Ward or Nick Mangold. They both deserve what they get - they are two of the dirtiest sonzabeaches in the NFL.

Now, if only Bernard Pollard could get his just desserts.

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I always thought everyone respected Mangold? What has he done that was dirty?

Hercules Rockefeller said:

There are some pretty classless replies in this thread.

Don't we want to beat the Broncos at their best?

Don't understand who would want to walk around admitting they are the type of person that wishes bodily harm upon someone who plays on a team they don't root for.

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Off The Grid said:

It's not because it's the Broncos, Fool. It's because it's Ward.

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Hercules Rockefeller said:

I'm well aware OTG, I can read. I've read the childish belligerence in this thread. I didn't call anyone on here any names while I did it either. No need to call me any for disagreeing.

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01 ~ Forgive me. I was feeling theatrical and channeling Mr T.

02 ~ Having said that: You can stow your hypocritical Kleenex, now. My mild comment was a direct response to your reprehensible sweeping characterization of those who expressed Indifference or Pleasure at Ward's Injury as "classless". When Bad Things happen to Bad People, some Good People rejoice. Not everyone who rejoices is a Good Person and not every Good Person rejoices: Some rejoice because they, too, are basically mean-spirited Bad People, and some Good People feel Sorrow when Bad Things happen to anyone, even Bad People like Ward. And I know that some of this particular breed of Good People find it difficult to imagine why any Good Person could feel such Indifference or Pleasure. But the kind of person who sees such instances as Opportunities to insult others with terms such as "classless", in order to pose as some sort of Lofty Spirit who's Above It All ought to take a long look in the mirror: The only ones you're fooling are those just like you.

You're a good man, but you personally attacked an whole bunch of Posters who weren't causing you Harm.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to insult people, expect to be called to Account for it.

Wheelman said:

I always thought everyone respected Mangold? What has he done that was dirty?

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Not saying I agree, but I think it was in reference to this.

Ah I forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me.

Off The Grid said:

01 ~ Forgive me. I was feeling theatrical and channeling Mr T.

02 ~ Having said that: You can stow your hypocritical Kleenex, now. My mild comment was a direct response to your reprehensible sweeping characterization of those who expressed Indifference or Pleasure at Ward's Injury as "classless". When Bad Things happen to Bad People, some Good People rejoice. Not everyone who rejoices is a Good Person and not every Good Person rejoices: Some rejoice because they, too, are basically mean-spirited Bad People, and some Good People feel Sorrow when Bad Things happen to anyone, even Bad People like Ward. And I know that some of this particular breed of Good People find it difficult to imagine why any Good Person could feel such Indifference or Pleasure. But the kind of person who sees such instances as Opportunities to insult others with terms such as "classless", in order to pose as some sort of Lofty Spirit who's Above It All ought to take a long look in the mirror: The only ones you're fooling are those just like you.

You're a good man, but you personally attacked an whole bunch of Posters who weren't causing you Harm.

You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to insult people, expect to be called to Account for it.

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My intent was not to dub anyone here as being devoid of class, and certainly not as beneath me. I was more trying to invoke a "class it up, gents" sort of tone, but I can see how it was taken as judgmental. Also I must humbly reject your depiction of me as being Good Person/Lofty Spirit---I am a good guy, but I don't think I deserve any sort of titles. I can definitely see how I may have come off as smug and condescending, it was not my intention.

A few factors were involved:

* We were talking about a possible serious neck injury, one which could have been debilitating for the rest of his life. Now, that didn't happen, and so that point is moot. But for me there's a big difference between thinking it is Karma that Vontaze Burfict tears an ACL a week or two after twisting people's legs and ankles at the bottom of piles, and a potential neck/spine injury. I think paralysis when I think that. It is a different sort of injury

* I just really don't see T.J. Ward as this Grade-A scumbag villain that so many apparently do. He is a guy who made a low hit on Gronk, and tried to do so again. As pointed out by Andy Johnson, he didn't say anything vicious and he doesn't have a history of playing cheap or outside of the rules/past the whistles. to me he is a guy who plays right on the edge, very very physical, sort of like Rodney Harrison. Other teams thought he was a scumbag and a jerk, I thought he was a hard nosed player. I think Ward is a hard nosed guy who dinged up one of ours. He's no Raiola, or Romanowski, or someone of that ilk.

I do get that a guy who goes low in a spearing type tackle runs the risk of hurting himself, and I certainly had my temperature rising after he attempted another low tackle on Gronk. More the sentiment I guess I felt but did not aptly express is "Why this guy?" I just feel there are so many better villains that we could have, and that we could be rooting for to go away. Even if I'd prefer we don't root for it to be because the guy is wheelchair bound.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

My intent was not to dub anyone here as being devoid of class, and certainly not as beneath me. I was more trying to invoke a "class it up, gents" sort of tone, but I can see how it was taken as judgmental. Also I must humbly reject your depiction of me as being Good Person/Lofty Spirit---I am a good guy, but I don't think I deserve any sort of titles. I can definitely see how I may have come off as smug and condescending, it was not my intention.

A few factors were involved:

* We were talking about a possible serious neck injury, one which could have been debilitating for the rest of his life. Now, that didn't happen, and so that point is moot. But for me there's a big difference between thinking it is Karma that Vontaze Burfict tears an ACL a week or two after twisting people's legs and ankles at the bottom of piles, and a potential neck/spine injury. I think paralysis when I think that. It is a different sort of injury

* I just really don't see T.J. Ward as this Grade-A scumbag villain that so many apparently do. He is a guy who made a low hit on Gronk, and tried to do so again. As pointed out by Andy Johnson, he didn't say anything vicious and he doesn't have a history of playing cheap or outside of the rules/past the whistles. to me he is a guy who plays right on the edge, very very physical, sort of like Rodney Harrison. Other teams thought he was a scumbag and a jerk, I thought he was a hard nosed player. I think Ward is a hard nosed guy who dinged up one of ours. He's no Raiola, or Romanowski, or someone of that ilk.

I do get that a guy who goes low in a spearing type tackle runs the risk of hurting himself, and I certainly had my temperature rising after he attempted another low tackle on Gronk. More the sentiment I guess I felt but did not aptly express is "Why this guy?" I just feel there are so many better villains that we could have, and that we could be rooting for to go away. Even if I'd prefer we don't root for it to be because the guy is wheelchair bound.

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Fair enough, and extremely well put, Sir.

We disagree on Ward, but your position is eminently Defensible.

One note, if you please, though: I never characterized you as a Lofty Spirit ~ only as posing as one.

Let's not forget how classy TJ Ward was after this deliberate attempt to knock an opponents head clean off his shoulders. "I'd do it again, he might've caught a touchdown".

I hope he is out for the last regular season game as well as all playoff games and even a couple games going into next year! Maybe next time he thinks or mouth's off about going after a player to deliberately injure them possibly even paralyzing them and/or ruining their career, etc. Dude hurts Gronk last year to the point of him having to have his knee surgically repaired and his season done for and during that time did this POS say he felt bad or even give a hint of being sorry/feeling bad?.. NOPE!! He bragged and was proud of INJURING A HUMAN BEING! and went on this year to say he was aiming to do it again! Like many other member's of this forum have said KARMA IS A B**CH AND HOPEFULLY IF HE LEARNS NOTHING ELSE FROM THIS, HE WILL LEARN TO THINK NEXT TIME ABOUT BEING A POS AND WHAT YOU PUT OUT IN THIS WORLD WILL COMEBACK TO BITE YOU IN THE ASS 3X OVER!!

Hercules Rockefeller said:

Agree Deus. There are some pretty classless replies in this thread.

Don't we want to beat the Broncos at their best?

Don't understand who would want to walk around admitting they are the type of person that wishes bodily harm upon someone who plays on a team they don't root for.

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I thought Deus was referring to the people in your camp as requiring "psychological help"?