Solder and McCourty?

Spiral said:

If you're statistically-inclined:

Passes defensed: 9 (Tied for 78th)
Interceptions: 1
Tackles: 69 (Tied for 58th among dbs)

If you prefer to judge him by what you see, go back and watch the Denver game, and focus on him every single play. A total non-factor in the game. Gave up two deep passes over the the middle. Not a hitter, tackles like a corner, runs around piles. Not a difference-maker in a single game this year.

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McCourty was only targeted 18 times last year and he only allowed 9 catches. He played the most snaps among the DBs. Watch Dmac on film he is a stud, his range and closing speed is special, many analyists consider him to be the best FS in the game. What games were you watching?

This video shows McCourty's range, he read the QBs eyes stayed aware of the WR and closes in, when the ball is under thrown he adjusts perfectly and makes a play for the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOGj0-BjUbg&app=desktop

All22PatsFan said:

many analyists consider him to be the best FS in the game.

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Yeah, sure---if you take out that Jarius Byrd guy.

supafly said:

Yeah, sure---if you take out that Jarius Byrd guy.

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Either by holding out or injury he takes himself out of the picture plenty.

I read a report last week that claimed that McCourty and the front office were not getting anywhere towards a new deal.

I apologize that I do not have the link. It seems like there are so many different stories and sources everyday, that we don't know what to believe and what not to believe. I'm sure we'll hear more in the next several months about it.

In the meantime, it should be pointed out that it's nothing even close to a sure thing that McCourty will return as so many assume. His brother signed for crazy money in the range of almost 9m a year, and that was a couple of years ago. If he's seeking something like that, this may end up playing out opposite of what we'd like to see.

fierce said:

Either by holding out or injury he takes himself out of the picture plenty.

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That's your opinion, but Byrd is certainly considered to be the top FS out there by the majority, not McCourty as was stated by the poster.

There's a reason why Byrd set the new standard for guaranteed money for any defensive back--ever, at 26.3m in guarantees.

If McCourty is looking for something like that, we're going to be SOL, and you can take that to the bank, despite where he falls in the ranking of safeties.

supafly said:

Yeah, sure---if you take out that Jarius Byrd guy.

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Byrd is a great FS. I think he is little better against the pass than DMac, he has a little more range as he plays even deeper than McCourty. But DMac is a better tackler, better against the run and an man coverage. Byrd don't have the versatility of DMac. Byrd rarley moves from centerfield where as McCourty can play evreywere.

supafly said:

If McCourty is looking for something like that, we're going to be SOL, and you can take that to the bank, despite where he falls in the ranking of safeties.

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Don't know about that. McCourty strikes me as the type BB would back up the Brink's truck for.

All22PatsFan said:

Byrd is a great FS. I think he is little better against the pass than DMac, he has a little more range as he plays even deeper than McCourty. But DMac is a better tackler, better against the run and an man coverage. Byrd don't have the versatility of DMac. Byrd rarley moves from centerfield where as McCourty can play evreywere.

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I can certainly agree with you that McCourty is up there in the rankings, and likely has some traits that are comparable or better to Byrd.

Whether or not Belichick agrees, or wishes to tie up that much money with Revis (hopefully) and McCourty together, remains to be seen.

I still think that if McCourty is going to demand money like Byrd received, he's as good as gone, but that's just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong. I have a hard time seeing McCourty receive 26+ million in guarantees and 9m AAV here in N.England.

supafly said:

I can certainly agree with you that McCourty is up there in the rankings, and likely has some traits that are comparable or better to Byrd.

Whether or not Belichick agrees, or wishes to tie up that much money with Revis (hopefully) and McCourty together, remains to be seen.

I still think that if McCourty is going to demand money like Byrd received, he's as good as gone, but that's just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong.

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If we can't get a deal done he could be tagged.

JackBauer said:

Don't know about that. McCourty strikes me as the type BB would back up the Brink's truck for.

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My concern is having enough money to pay both Revis and McCourty top dollar at their positions.

Byrd is making 9m per year. If McCourty is going to demand that kind of money, we may be in for a battle.

For what it's worth, prior to this offseason, many here saw McCourty in line for a payday in the range of 6.5--7m per year, which would have placed him near the top for safeties prior to this offseason. That's a pretty significant change in such a short amount of time.

6.5 vs 9m is a big difference.

All22PatsFan said:

If we can't get a deal done he could be tagged.

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Sure, and I think there's a good chance of that happening.

The point is that many here assume a new deal for DMcC and that is not anything close to being written in stone at this point. We may only have him for the next 2 years, and that's with the tag for 2015.

supafly said:

My concern is having enough money to pay both Revis and McCourty top dollar at their positions.

Byrd is making 9m per year. If McCourty is going to demand that kind of money, we may be in for a battle.

For what it's worth, prior to this offseason, many here saw McCourty in line for a payday in the range of 6.5--7m per year, which would have placed him near the top for safeties prior to this offseason. That's a pretty significant change in such a short amount of time.

6.5 vs 9m is a big difference.

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True. I think they could manage it if they get creative...might depend a bit on what the cap looks like next year, too. They may also have some money coming off the books, depending on how they approach Mankins, Wilfork, etc.

Here are some links to contract details signed by safeties this offseason

Jairus Byrd's Deal With Saints Sets New Standard For Safety Position

Details of T.J. Ward's contract

Contract Breakdown: Miami Dolphins? Reshad Jones deal worth most in non-guaranteed years | The Daily Dolphin

Antoine Bethea-Donte Whitner contract comparison - Niners Nation

Breaking down Mike Mitchell's contract - Pittsburgh Steelers Blog - ESPN

The change is in the perception of posters.

supafly said:

For what it's worth, prior to this offseason, many here saw McCourty in line for a payday in the range of 6.5--7m per year, which would have placed him near the top for safeties prior to this offseason. That's a pretty significant change in such a short amount of time.

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mgteich said:

The change is in the perception of posters.

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The market for safeties has changed.

On February 28th I blogged that "When he signed his rookie deal Devin McCourty's 2014 salary was scheduled to be $870,000 but with a possible $3.2 million escalator for the 2014 season. Devin has done enough to increase his 2014 salary by $3,050,000 to $3,920,000. It is time for the Patriots and Devin to reach an extension. Let's look at some comparables. Jarius Byrd is 10 months older than McCourty and played under the franchise tag ($6.916 million) in 2013. Devin McCourty who will be 27 when the 2014 starts was on the All-Pro 2nd team. Earl Thomas was also drafted in 2010 and was first team All-Pro. Like McCourty Earl Thomas is signed through the 2014 season. It could be that the Patriots, Bills and Seahawks are waiting to see who signs their safety first. Earl Thomas is a year and 9 months younger than McCourty. Eric Weddle, a fellow member of the All Pro 2nd team, signed his current 5 year $40 million deal in 2011. Kam Chancellor, yet another member of the All Pro 2nd team, signed a four-year, $28 million extension in April, 2013. Antrell Rolle, one more member of the All-Pro 2nd team, signed a five year, $37 million deal with the Giants in 2010 when he was 27. Dashon Goldson signed his 5-year, $41.5 million deal in March, 2013. William Moore signed his 5-year, $30 million deal in March, 2013. Michael Griffin signed his 5-year, $35 million deal in June of 2012. The franchise tag for safeties is projected to be right around 8 million dollars. It is likely that it will be more than that in 2015 when McCourty is scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent. Therefore, if franchised by the Pats in 2015 McCourty would receive over $12 million in cash in a two-year period. If franchised again in 2016, McCourty would receive close to $22 million over 3 years. Therefore, it seems reasonable to venture that a McCourty extension in the $6 to $7 million per year average range would be fair for both sides. A 7 million average per deal would tie Michael Griffin for the 8 highest APY for a safety. An extension could lower McCourty's 2014 cap number by one to two million dollars. "

Since that post Jarius Byrd signed the biggest contract ever for a safety at 9M APY. Two other safeties, Donte Whitner and Reshad Jones, signed contracts that averaged at least 7 million a year over the life of the contract.

Miguel said:

The market for safeties has changed.

On February 28th I blogged that "When he signed his rookie deal Devin McCourty's 2014 salary was scheduled to be $870,000 but with a possible $3.2 million escalator for the 2014 season. Devin has done enough to increase his 2014 salary by $3,050,000 to $3,920,000. It is time for the Patriots and Devin to reach an extension. Let's look at some comparables. Jarius Byrd is 10 months older than McCourty and played under the franchise tag ($6.916 million) in 2013. Devin McCourty who will be 27 when the 2014 starts was on the All-Pro 2nd team. Earl Thomas was also drafted in 2010 and was first team All-Pro. Like McCourty Earl Thomas is signed through the 2014 season. It could be that the Patriots, Bills and Seahawks are waiting to see who signs their safety first. Earl Thomas is a year and 9 months younger than McCourty. Eric Weddle, a fellow member of the All Pro 2nd team, signed his current 5 year $40 million deal in 2011. Kam Chancellor, yet another member of the All Pro 2nd team, signed a four-year, $28 million extension in April, 2013. Antrell Rolle, one more member of the All-Pro 2nd team, signed a five year, $37 million deal with the Giants in 2010 when he was 27. Dashon Goldson signed his 5-year, $41.5 million deal in March, 2013. William Moore signed his 5-year, $30 million deal in March, 2013. Michael Griffin signed his 5-year, $35 million deal in June of 2012. The franchise tag for safeties is projected to be right around 8 million dollars. It is likely that it will be more than that in 2015 when McCourty is scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent. Therefore, if franchised by the Pats in 2015 McCourty would receive over $12 million in cash in a two-year period. If franchised again in 2016, McCourty would receive close to $22 million over 3 years. Therefore, it seems reasonable to venture that a McCourty extension in the $6 to $7 million per year average range would be fair for both sides. A 7 million average per deal would tie Michael Griffin for the 8 highest APY for a safety. An extension could lower McCourty's 2014 cap number by one to two million dollars. "

Since that post Jarius Byrd signed the biggest contract ever for a safety at 9M APY. Two other safeties, Donte Whitner and Reshad Jones, signed contracts that averaged at least 7 million a year over the life of the contract.

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I'd be a little cautious about placing a whole lot of weight on that "2nd team all-pro" designation. There were six safeties named as 2nd-team all pro in 2013. According to NFL.com, each of these guys probably received a single vote.

2013 All-Pro teams - NFL.com

Spiral said:

I'd be a little cautious about placing a whole lot of weight on that "2nd team all-pro" designation. There were six safeties named as 2nd-team all pro in 2013. According to NFL.com, each of these guys probably received a single vote.

2013 All-Pro teams - NFL.com

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I think that McCourty offers versatility for both CB/S in different packages, is a good leader, and is one of the hard working kind of players that Belichick likes to have around. He'd definitely be worth retaining.

That said, there could be a decent gap between what Belichick sees his value at, and what McCourty could be asking for (in the top few safety range).

Time will sort this issue out, and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Spiral said:

If you're statistically-inclined:

Passes defensed: 9 (Tied for 78th)
Interceptions: 1
Tackles: 69 (Tied for 58th among dbs)

If you prefer to judge him by what you see, go back and watch the Denver game, and focus on him every single play. A total non-factor in the game. Gave up two deep passes over the the middle. Not a hitter, tackles like a corner, runs around piles. Not a difference-maker in a single game this year.

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So your idea of "judge him by what you see" is to watch one game where Dennard and Ryan were horribly overmatched and the pass rush barely affected Manning? I know people like safeties that fly around, hit hard, and pick off passes, but the Pats would have done a whole lot worse on defense if McCourty had done anything other than sit back in passive deep coverage. If you take him out of the middle of the field, then you're making one of the mid-to-deep outside receivers even more open. What would you have rather seen him do? Mind-reading is awesome, but it's not a realistic expectation of McCourty.

All22PatsFan said:

Byrd is a great FS. I think he is little better against the pass than DMac, he has a little more range as he plays even deeper than McCourty. But DMac is a better tackler, better against the run and an man coverage. Byrd don't have the versatility of DMac. Byrd rarley moves from centerfield where as McCourty can play evreywere.

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I'd comfortably back McCourty over Byrd when you consider the full package. McCourty needs to be paid. I fear to think what the Patriots Secondary would have been like without him over the past few seasons.

I really want them to get McCourty extended before the season starts. I really see him having an excellent season with the CBs that the Pats have so his price is really going to go up. If not, then Solder. Either one will probably need a franchise tag in the next off-season so hopefully the Pats take care of at least one of them this off-season.