Now we need a lardbutt DT

RayClay · Oct 7, 2013

I love the hustle of the two youngsters, but we can't afford to just get pushed around in short yardage and that's what is going to happen. Whether we have to give up a low round pick (horrors) or just pay a bit short term, I think there's too much to lose on a defense that's looking great otherwise.

We don't need an all around player, or a player for the future, just a player to stop us from getting gouged in situations. Thoughts?

goheels22002 · Oct 7, 2013

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Defensive Tackles

Lots of wear on the unsigned players. Seymour and Ty Warren are on the list. Not sure what the best option is at this point, but somebody will be signed this week.

DarrylS · Oct 7, 2013

Not many, if any good choices listed on Walter Football...

RayClay · Oct 7, 2013

goheels22002 said:
WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Free Agents - Defensive Tackles

Lots of wear on the unsigned players. Seymour and Ty Warren are on the list. Not sure what the best option is at this point, but somebody will be signed this week.

I'd love to get a vet (not those two who aren't really NT) but the trouble with that type of player is they tend to get out of shape real quick.

Obviously, they weren't thrilled with Anthony Rashad White, but he's a legitimate NT type and a former powerlifting champion. If he's coachable, he has the advantage of being a future prospect.

He got an injury settlement, but they didn't even say what it was, so if it was short term and we can resign that type? might be worth a shot.

RayClay · Oct 7, 2013

DarrylS said:
Not many, if any good choices listed on Walter Football...

Think adequate, situational.

MassPats38 · Oct 7, 2013

It's about more than weight as 350+ fat boys without pop can be moved relatively easily by 310 pound non-fat boys on the offensive line.

If there were a capable DT to plug the middle at low cost to the Pats, then it is a no brainer. Take the deal. I just don't see that guy out there right now. You have broken veterans and free agents who are not good enough to play. Given various roles in defensive reserves, I just cannot think of a team (1) who has such a player available and (2) would part with the player on the cheap. You realistically would not part with a young player that represents the future for nothing, and dropping to 0 insurance on your line after an injury could put you where the Pats are now after a single play.

Not a huge fan of Bleacher Report, but this article is probably accurate on the type of line depth expected on the 53-man roster. I also liked this article on the BB hybrid defense, which suggests the requirements of the defense and how you cannot simply add a fat man because the schemes tend to require players shifting between roles (and with fast paced offenses limiting substitutions, even more so).

In the end, I wish there were an easy answer, but this is like Christmas shopping the evening of December 24th. What's on the store rack is picked over and not worth buying. If early shoppers bought more than they need, then they would likely sell items at a huge markup, for far more than the item is worth.

manxman2601 · Oct 7, 2013

I think the linebackers did a good job yesterday covering the weakness in the middle and I expect we'll see more and more Brandon Spikes in the future.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Oct 7, 2013

Among lard butts, Jamarcus Russell is still available!

RayClay · Oct 7, 2013

MassPats38 said:
It's about more than weight as 350+ fat boys without pop can be moved relatively easily by 310 pound non-fat boys on the offensive line.

If there were a capable DT to plug the middle at low cost to the Pats, then it is a no brainer. Take the deal. I just don't see that guy out there right now. You have broken veterans and free agents who are not good enough to play. Given various roles in defensive reserves, I just cannot think of a team (1) who has such a player available and (2) would part with the player on the cheap. You realistically would not part with a young player that represents the future for nothing, and dropping to 0 insurance on your line after an injury could put you where the Pats are now after a single play.

Not a huge fan of Bleacher Report, but this article is probably accurate on the type of line depth expected on the 53-man roster. I also liked this article on the BB hybrid defense, which suggests the requirements of the defense and how you cannot simply add a fat man because the schemes tend to require players shifting between roles (and with fast paced offenses limiting substitutions, even more so).

In the end, I wish there were an easy answer, but this is like Christmas shopping the evening of December 24th. What's on the store rack is picked over and not worth buying. If early shoppers bought more than they need, then they would likely sell items at a huge markup, for far more than the item is worth.

No one is disagreeing with that but, again, we're talking situational, like goal line stands for instance. There's no harm in trying guys out and finding a situational backup that's not necessarily in the regular rotation. Hell, Kyle Love was a UDFA who could be moved to the nose, Keith Traylor was a fattened up linebacker.

Not looking for a complete player here, I like the young guys and pray that Tommy Kelly's healthy.

Big-T · Oct 7, 2013

First thought was trade for Mount Cody, a true NT who offers somewhere between little and no pass rush but eats the space (amongst other things) in the middle.

Then having checked, the only reason why he hasn't been playing this year is that he's injured and that he wants to finally play again in the next game.

A couple of weeks ago Phil Taylor might have been an option from the Browns but now they've won 3 on the spin they will be less likely to be holding a firesale.

So unless there's another trade candidate it's looking like make do with what's on the roster or picking up an old & past it vet to get some help.

RayClay · Oct 7, 2013

Big-T said:
So unless there's another trade candidate it's looking like make do with what's on the roster or picking up an old & past it vet to get some help.

Yeah, that is the problem. Players of this type are generally really past it when they're inactive.

The thing is, to me, that we have some good projects in the young guys. They just aren't that big.

manxman2601 · Oct 7, 2013

I wonder about whethr we could get Josh Chapman out of Indy. He's been getting between 10 and 25 snaps per game this year. I can't see any real reason for them to trade him, but he'd be ideal.

MassPats38 · Oct 7, 2013

RayClay said:
No one is disagreeing with that but, again, we're talking situational, like goal line stands for instance. There's no harm in trying guys out and finding a situational backup that's not necessarily in the regular rotation. Hell, Kyle Love was a UDFA who could be moved to the nose, Keith Traylor was a fattened up linebacker.

Not looking for a complete player here, I like the young guys and pray that Tommy Kelly's healthy.

I would love to see it happen, and if such a possibility is there I'd take it in a heartbeat. I was actually hoping Love would find his way back to the team for depth. I, apparently as did you, had a bad feeling with 2 rookie linemen on a goal line stand with a third offensive lineman playing fullback. Patriots All Access last week described how you can creatively compensate for Wilfork's absence using linebackers, but I have memories of some game 6+ years ago (I thought it was the Fish or Bengals) in which the the opponent was required to add light bodies to the defense to play for the heavier cast, and the Pats just kept pushing the defense downfield on straight runs and there was nothing that defense could do to stop the run.

And when Kelly went down, I just threw my hands up. I hope he is just suffering a sprain, or defensive line may just pass the wide receiver/TE problem as the primary personnel problem for the Pats right now. The runs up the middle yesterday would be a taste of what is to come later in the season. I thought the D handled it well, but Kelly was a large part of that solution.

mcsully · Oct 7, 2013

So I was thinking of this while in church (just kidding)..

Prior to the Kelly injury (still waiting to hear back on that).. I was thinking BB and crew would wait a couple of weeks and see what he has with the young guys before making a move.. I still think it might be a week early but here are some teams I thought (realistically)

1. Giants - Shawn Rodger and Mike Patterson
2. Vikings - Williams
3. Pitt - Brett Keisel (a light DT in a 4-3 but he's always around the ball)

Not many teams are going to move a young DT.. We'll be looking for an older vet with an expiring contract..

PATRIOTSFANINPA · Oct 7, 2013

I don't know who is available,but I can tell you one thing.

Tommy Kelly is not Vince Wilfork,he is not a guy that can play virtually every snap for the next 11 games....if he does not get a break in some games he will not last the whole season....this guy is a player who will be on IR if he continues to play almost every snap in every game,he is not cut out for that.

VrabelJr · Oct 7, 2013

We had our chances on a lot of mid round big boys this year and we passed. John Jenkins, Jonathan Hankins, Jesse Chapman and Jesse Williams come to mind. I hated not drafting a big DT then and I hate it even more now. Big DTs aren't a commodity

it's gonna be hard to wrestle one away from another team. Casey Hampton is a possibility

BelichickFan · Oct 7, 2013

VrabelJr said:
We had our chances on a lot of mid round big boys this year and we passed. John Jenkins and Jesse Williams come to mind. I hated not drafting a big DT then and I hate it even more now. Big DTs aren't a commodity

Jesse Williams is on IR because of health issues that were known at draft time. He would not help us right now and who knows about the future.

PatsFan2 · Oct 7, 2013

Maybe we can get one from that vaunted Rutgers Team next draft.:bricks:

Big-T · Oct 7, 2013

Not much help now but:
KFFL - 2014 NFL Free Agents

Quite a bit of help there potentially for next season:
Alan Branch
Arthur Jones
Linval Joseph
Brett Keisel
Ropati Pitoitua
Paul Soliai
Randy Starks
Kevin Williams

Few will come fairly cheap, few will require decent money.

Vince is probably going to be asked to take a pay cut or sign an extension lowering his cap number ($11.6m cap hit according to Over The Cap) coming off a major injury. Another to look out for is Logan Mankins with a $10.5m cap hit - does his play really warrant that much money?

captain stone · Oct 7, 2013

This is more up-to-date than the WalterFootball or ESPN lists:

Best Available NFL Free Agents - Defense | The Sideline View

Most of the top names are over 33 yo, but I would still give Antonio Garay a call to say wassup.

Now we need a lardbutt DT

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