Do we need competition at the kicker spot?

lurker1965 · Sep 13, 2013

Breathe.

It's not like no one, even Vinateiri, never missed. And anyone thinking a 40+ yarder is a chip shot needs their head examined.

Batman · Sep 13, 2013

fxkane said:
Yes. His kick-offs have improved while his field goal kicking has gone a little south. Bleaker has him rated 20th going into this season--this confirms the lead thread.

Also BB must be disappointed to say the least because he hates turnovers with a passion. And a missed 40 yarder is the same as a turnover.

Not in the context of his only miss this season. A 48 harder as time expired is not a turnover not even close to a turnover.

I have rewatched the kick but the NFL has only had 1 angle on game pass the hold looked rushed and leaning too much to the right(he might like it that way). A right footed kicker normally wants a slight lean towards the holder and slightly forward. It's possible that Gostkowski was trying to compensate and just shanked it. Kickers are total creatures of habit and don't make adjustments on the fly well. He wants to take his same 2 steps plant his left on the third and swing his right through the ball.

SB39 · Sep 13, 2013

lurker1965 said:
Breathe.

It's not like no one, even Vinateiri, never missed. And anyone thinking a 40+ yarder is a chip shot needs their head examined.

Then you must think that Belichick needs his head examined because, with 8 seconds and 1 time out, he decided not to try further advancing the ball downfield, despite the fact that 8 seconds (with 1 time out) is plenty of time to try and gain another 10-15 yards.

pats4life12 · Sep 13, 2013

I think we do need some competition for the kicker spot, ghost just has not been cutting the last 2 years he could of used some competition a long time ago.

Lamanai · Sep 13, 2013

...with a cap savings of about $3m next season, Ghost will be "Mesko'd"...

PATSYLICIOUS · Sep 13, 2013

PatsFaninAZ said:
See, this is where I part ways with many in this thread. Our expectations of a guy taking down $3.4 million of the salary cap are way too low. I would say, without hesitation, that Gostkowski has hardly been "fantastic" this year. 5/6 is not fantastic. 5/6 is 83 percent. That's what he was last year, and it's bottom third of the league.

6/6 is fantastic. 18/19 is fantastic. 5/6 is fantastic if five of them were over 45 yards and the miss was from 58. Four of the field goals that Gost made so far this year are kicks that pretty much every kicker in the league should make virtually all of the time -- 21, 30, 33 and 35 yards. If you're kicking from inside the 20 yard line, you better make them. You can miss one inside the red zone during a year, because, well, stuff happens. You can miss one because the holder drops the snap or the center misses his block. Miss two and you're on the bubble.

On kicks of significance, he's 1 for 2. He hit a 48 yarder. He missed a 45 yarder. If he hits his next four or five 40+ kicks, then he'll have made up for the one he missed.

I agree 5/6 in itself isn't 'fantastic' but considering the following:
- One was a game winner in a road divisional game
- One was fairly long (45 or more IIRC)
- He has allowed almost no KR with deep KO's

And the way the one miss went I wouldn't rule out a bad hold or something else affecting that kick, it was not your typical miss. I would say it's a fantastic overall performance thus far no matter who the kicker is.

IcyPatriot · Sep 13, 2013

upstater1 said:
All time leader in NFL history is Mike Vanderjagt, the liquored kicker, at 86%.

Gostkowski is at 84%.

This year?

4 for 5 or 80%.

His holder was cut 1 1/2 weeks ago.

So, I'd say NO.

ctpatsfan77 · Sep 13, 2013

Lamanai said:
...with a cap savings of about $3m next season, Ghost will be "Mesko'd"...

There is one key difference between punters and kickers: every drive that ends with a punt is a "failure."

PatsFaninAZ · Sep 14, 2013

I think his kickoff abilities are overstated a bit, but it is a good point for discussion.

He is clearly well above average in this department. Not very top of the league last year, but for the conditions he kicks in late in the year, very effective. And money so far this year. What is that worth in terms of points. Over a year, is a guy whose average starting field position is the 22 yard line worth six points more than 24.5, or whatever the average is? If so, I guess missing 6 kicks between 30-49 yards is a wash over an average kickoff guy who would have only missed four. Or maybe you need to be more sophisticated about the true cost of missed FGs.

I don't know the answer. I do wish there were more sabermetric type analyses or discussions of this kind of stuff out there, instead of everyone (myself included) just cherry-picking things we like or don't about a guy to support our prejudices. In this regard, football feels 20 years behind baseball.

Patsrock · Sep 14, 2013

SB39 said:
Then you must think that Belichick needs his head examined because, with 8 seconds and 1 time out, he decided not to try further advancing the ball downfield, despite the fact that 8 seconds (with 1 time out) is plenty of time to try and gain another 10-15 yards.

Previous play to fg did take 8 seconds

sb1 · Sep 14, 2013

PatsFaninAZ said:
I think his kickoff abilities are overstated a bit, but it is a good point for discussion.

He is clearly well above average in this department. Not very top of the league last year, but for the conditions he kicks in late in the year, very effective. And money so far this year. What is that worth in terms of points. Over a year, is a guy whose average starting field position is the 22 yard line worth six points more than 24.5, or whatever the average is? If so, I guess missing 6 kicks between 30-49 yards is a wash over an average kickoff guy who would have only missed four. Or maybe you need to be more sophisticated about the true cost of missed FGs.

I don't know the answer. I do wish there were more sabermetric type analyses or discussions of this kind of stuff out there, instead of everyone (myself included) just cherry-picking things we like or don't about a guy to support our prejudices. In this regard, football feels 20 years behind baseball.

Football Outsiders used to try and look at stats from that perspective but this sport will never have anything like sabermetrics. It's too much of a team sport, as opposed to baseball which is a series of individual matchups disguised as a team sport.

sb1 · Sep 14, 2013

I still think Bill sends Adam Vinatieri out there to kick the FG in Super Bowl 42 and there would be no 4th and 13 from the 32 yard line.

ctpatsfan77 · Nov 30, 2013

Gostkowski nearing personal, NFL records

So far, through 11 games, Gostkowski has accumulated:

26/27 FGs
30/30 XPs
108 points

Pro-rated over 16 games, that works out to (with career highs noted):

37/38 FGs (36)
44/44 XPs (74(!))
155 points (153)

More importantly, if he scores just 27 points total over the next five games, he will become the first player in NFL history to score 1,000 points in his first eight seasons in the league—despite missing 8 games in 2010! [The previous mark is Mike Vanderjagt, who had 995 in 125 games.]

So—which marks do you think Gostkowski will reach?

PatsFaninAZ · Dec 1, 2013

I am an idiot. That is all.

End of message.

Joker · Dec 1, 2013

No you're not...you're a great TRUE Pats fan. The moronic azzole Pats fans are the idiots that rush here to start negative threads RIGHT AFTER a hard fought victory with as UNDERMANNED a Pats team as I've seen in years. Please, keep posting your opinions

patchick · Dec 1, 2013

PatsFaninAZ said:
I am an idiot. That is all.

End of message.

Dredging up an ancient thread to make fun of..yourself? An internet landmark.

:eat1:

Ivan · Dec 1, 2013

PatsFaninAZ said:
I am an idiot. That is all.

End of message.

Props to you AZ for owning it. The standard procedure is for posters to take shots at players and then act like they supported them all along when they get back to playing well.

Bella*chick · Dec 1, 2013

PatsFaninAZ said:
I am an idiot. That is all.

End of message.

Lol, no, you're a good poster and a good sport. But yeah, the answer to the original question posed by this thread is NO. We have such a great kicker.

NSPF · Dec 1, 2013

This thread is now a Gostkowski Appreciation Thread!

Kdo5 · Dec 1, 2013

I've been eating crow about Gostkowski all season long. Players of the game; Brady/Gostkowski/Edelman/Gronk all played excellent.

Do we need competition at the kicker spot?

Gostkowski will break . . . (choose ALL that apply)

His career mark for FGs made (36)

His career mark for points scored (153)

1,000 points in 8 seasons (an NFL first)

In the Starting Line-Up

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

In the Starting Line-Up

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

On the Game Day Roster

PatsFans.com Supporter

Wall of Fame

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Supporter

In the Starting Line-Up

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Moderatrix

Hall of Fame Poster

Addicted to the light

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Pro Bowl Player

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