Immediate Game Thoughts - I think the Pats just punted again edition

pencilneckgeek said:

That actually looked like a botched hold in real time to me, but I haven't studied a replay.




There were a couple plays where this happened and things looked bad, like that drive-killing incompletion to KT's feet short of the sticks, where he had 3 guys around him, all waiting for him just short of the sticks. The Jets ran the right defense on that one. Tom needed to look elsewhere, or maybe there is an adjustment that should have been made by KT.




The clock stops either way on a turnover, but he needs to reflect on how close he got to being injured and either run straight out-of-bounds next time or lay down and enjoy the moment from the comfort of the fetal position.



That throw was about as good as it gets. If Dobson wants to be the Pats' deep threat, he needs to catch that more often than not. Not a bad drop, but he needs to figure out a way to make the plays when they are there, because he might not get another chance.

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Thanks for the clarification on the clock stopping for a turnover. You are right, Talib could have turtled. It's what I expected him to do. But I could hardly fault him the celebration. The D didn't just survive the clock ticking down....it ended the game on its own terms. I'd celebrate too!

I never really blame the coaching staff because they know more football than I will ever know but if this scheme and stuff is so complex, maybe they need to dumb it down a little and get some easy catches and completions going until they catch on maybe :confused2: . We see rookie QBs over the league making easy short passes to their more established receivers. Its the other way around here and maybe change somethings to help the WR build on could be something they try.
They are also missing 1 Veteran WR to talk with these guys like Alge crumpler was for gronk and hernandez. The WR have no one to talk with except brady. Every one else is new except edelman. Its not helpful.

That said, those guys dropped catchable balls.We can keep saying they will get better but there is no gurantee. And additionally, our offense has stagnated in games many times in the past but always switched to a change of pace back like woodhead or faulk to get something going. They missed veeren big time last night.
I dont think anyone did a good job last night including RBs ,Oline and Josh made some strange play calls with 3rd and 1 and toss sweeping in the rain etc.

About the defense : They were good but geno smith made some dumb plays. They were lucky with wide open receivers not being targeted or missing catches. This offense is no way to judge this defense but they did what they are supposed to do.

PatsDeb said:

Edelman also got behind them early and he missed the throw (or Brady missed him - not sure who was at fault). Thompson also had separation a few times. Hopefully the timing/accuracy will come.

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I don't think Brady was as pinpoint last night, and I'm not sure why. All camp and preseason he was - by all accounts - absolute money on those throws. Game speed is different. Really, I think it's just a matter of time together. I thought the Dobson throw was good and should've been caught, but could've been better. The Thompkins one couldn't have been any better, but was a difficult catch. The Edelman one was a WTF for Brady.

It'll get better.

There was at least one Dobson miss that was catchable where he just didn't turn his head around in time. Pretty fixable. Another miss where he went one way in the endzone and Brady expected him to go the other. Fixable. A few that inexplicably bounced off his hands....the long ball was just a tad overthrown, I thought, but a more experienced receiver would have had it.

I seem to remember AH having the dropsies quite a bit his first season. Hopefully it doesn't mean Dobson has bad hands...just his first game on a bad night. But we just have to sit back and wait.

Bella*chick said:

There was at least one Dobson miss that was catchable where he just didn't turn his head around in time. Pretty fixable. Another miss where he went one way in the endzone and Brady expected him to go the other. Fixable. A few that inexplicably bounced off his hands....the long ball was just a tad overthrown, I thought, but a more experienced receiver would have had it.

I seem to remember AH having the dropsies quite a bit his first season. Hopefully it doesn't mean Dobson has bad hands...just his first game on a bad night. But we just have to sit back and wait.

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With rookie WRs especially in a complicated system, many of the drops happens because the rookie is thinking too much. As he becomes more comfortable with the offense, the drops should decrease.

It isn't like a guy like the Pats faced last night in Stephen Hill who came into the league with the reputation of having hands of stone. Dobson didn't drop a pass last year at all. He has sure hands. I think his hands will definitely improve.

Sporin said:

The ball was overthrown, not all Dobson's fault.

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The ball went about fifty yards in the air and bounced off of Dropson's hands and you're blaming the QB?

pencilneckgeek said:

The clock stops either way on a turnover, but he needs to reflect on how close he got to being injured and either run straight out-of-bounds next time or lay down and enjoy the moment from the comfort of the fetal position.

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He shouldn't need to reflect, run out of bounds, any of it. Every defensive player in the league should be aware that in that situation you just fall down and give yourself up.

Troy Brown needs to sit him down and have him review some film of a game in San Diego.

Gronkandez said:

The ball went about fifty yards in the air and bounced off of Dropson's hands and you're blaming the QB?

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Ball was over his head and well in front of him,which is why he was so stretched out trying to reel it in and stumbled.

At least that's what I saw. If you saw it different, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not excusing Dobson for dropping catchable balls, but that one wasn't a gimmie in my opinion.

Dobson is a hands guy. He didn't drop a SINGLE ball his last year in college. People writing him off as a hands of stone guy are going way overboard, way prematurely.

And I agree with the earlier poster who said Brady needs to can it with the Manning-fits on the field. Save it for the sideline and practice. Show some cool on the field or you are just amping the WR's up more and making it more likely they'll make mistakes.

These are Rookies. It was Dobson's FIRST NFL GAME and he caught a TD on his first play!! They have the talent, they just need to get their reps, work hard, and improve. Tom can't expect rookies in their first couple of NFL games to be pinpoint route runners like the vets he's had in the past. He has to adjust HIS game just as much as THEY need to improve theirs.

All the respect in the world for TB, but there was plenty of blame to go around last night beyond the dumb dropsies.

Sporin said:

Ball was over his head and well in front of him,which is why he was so stretched out trying to reel it in and stumbled.

At least that's what I saw. If you saw it different, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not excusing Dobson for dropping catchable balls, but that one wasn't a gimmie in my opinion.

Dobson is a hands guy. He didn't drop a SINGLE ball his last year in college. People writing him off as a hands of stone guy are going way overboard, way prematurely.

And I agree with the earlier poster who said Brady needs to can it with the Manning-fits on the field. Save it for the sideline and practice. Show some cool on the field or you are just amping the WR's up more and making it more likely they'll make mistakes.

These are Rookies. It was Dobson's FIRST NFL GAME and he caught a TD on his first play!! They have the talent, they just need to get their reps, work hard, and improve. Tom can't expect rookies in their first couple of NFL games to be pinpoint route runners like the vets he's had in the past. He has to adjust HIS game just as much as THEY need to improve theirs.

All the respect in the world for TB, but there was plenty of blame to go around last night beyond the dumb dropsies.

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3 receptions for 56 yards and a TD. The stuff that didn't go right is disheartening, but writing off a kid after that first game is beyond unreasonable.

Tedy Bruschi: Expect to see more growing pains for Patriots - ESPN Boston

“All the thinking that’s going on with those guys post-snap,” Bruschi explains. “‘Where does Tom want me to be?’ ‘Where do I go based on my post-snap read in terms of my coverages?’ And then the rain came down, so as you’re thinking where you want to be, all of a sudden you forget that when it’s raining and your gloves are wet and your hands are wet, that’s when you have to focus even more on catching the ball. That’s a process these young receivers weren’t ready for.

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Sporin said:

The ball was overthrown, not all Dobson's fault.

Brady had a number of off throws last night, this wasn't all on the receivers, plenty if blame to go around.

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A lot of scouts were hailing Dobson for having the best hands in the 2013 draft. That ball hit both his hands, he's gotta make that catch. Not a perfect ball by Brady, but 98.5% perfect, Dobson has to give the extra 1.5%. I'm the biggest Dobson fan, but I was disappointed with his drops. For a rookie 2nd round choice, he had a similar night to Geno Smith, you can definitely see that he's a talented prospect, did some good things, but did some equally bad things as well. The good news is, there is no rules that he can't improve.

SVN said:

Tedy Bruschi: Expect to see more growing pains for Patriots - ESPN Boston

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Tedy Bruschi, Patriots hater

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

3 receptions for 56 yards and a TD. The stuff that didn't go right is disheartening, but writing off a kid after that first game is beyond unreasonable.

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Yeah, he's on pace to catch 45 passes for 840 yards and 15 tds ! Dobson reminds me of the Jet's Stephen Hill, gotta get over those drops, needs to work with the Juggs Machine and catch some passes.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

3 receptions for 56 yards and a TD. The stuff that didn't go right is disheartening, but writing off a kid after that first game is beyond unreasonable.

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You think teams will blow coverages and leave him completely uncovered for a TD in every game?

If not, let's not go pumping his tires over the TD catch. The kid was horrible.

Haley said:

I liked most of the commentary last night - right up until the fighting broke out. When Mayock said Talib shouldn't have been "dancing down the sidelines" prior to the Mangold hit, I wanted to reach through the TV, grab his mic and step on it.

God forbid Talib plays the game of football completely within the rules of the game. Clearly anyone that does this should have their knees removed. :bricks:

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scott99 said:

A lot of scouts were hailing Dobson for having the best hands in the 2013 draft. That ball hit both his hands, he's gotta make that catch. Not a perfect ball by Brady, but 98.5% perfect, Dobson has to give the extra 1.5%. I'm the biggest Dobson fan, but I was disappointed with his drops. For a rookie 2nd round choice, he had a similar night to Geno Smith, you can definitely see that he's a talented prospect, did some good things, but did some equally bad things as well. The good news is, there is no rules that he can't improve.

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Everyone needs to relax a little. Thompkins was horrible in his first game last week against buffalo. He showed improvement yesterday. Dobson looked horrible in his first game yesterday. He will get better next week. If these two are playing this bad in december we can be worrid.

I actually thought -- without the benefit of having rewatched the game yet -- Brady looked fairly sharp, all things considered. Not perfect by any means, but by comparison he seemed a bit jittery in Buffalo; his throws looked cleaner to me last night. If he were throwing to Amendola and Gronkowski instead of a pair of rooks, I've no doubt his completion rate would have been well north of 50%. And I thought the pass protection appeared pretty stout compared to Sunday, against a front 7 that I think we all feel is rather good.

The ultimate silver lining is 20 incomplete passes and not one pick. I recall that BB quote from A Football Life, where he said, "When have you ever heard about a game being lost on an incomplete pass?"

Love a game where you have more punts than first downs and still come out with the W. Reminds me of the championship years.

Deus Irae said:

You think teams will blow coverages and leave him completely uncovered for a TD in every game?

If not, let's not go pumping his tires over the TD catch. The kid was horrible.

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He was consistently open and burning the DBs of the Jets. That is much better than what Ochocinco, Chad Jackson, etc. ever did. Yes, Dobson had a bad night, but most of it is correctable. You can't teach burning defenders on a consistent basis (well, you can to a point).

Right now, Dobson is best served as a player who gets a handful of targets a game, but in a month he could be a significant contributor.

scott99 said:

A lot of scouts were hailing Dobson for having the best hands in the 2013 draft. That ball hit both his hands, he's gotta make that catch. Not a perfect ball by Brady, but 98.5% perfect, Dobson has to give the extra 1.5%. I'm the biggest Dobson fan, but I was disappointed with his drops. For a rookie 2nd round choice, he had a similar night to Geno Smith, you can definitely see that he's a talented prospect, did some good things, but did some equally bad things as well. The good news is, there is no rules that he can't improve.

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My guess is that it was more of a rookie in his first game overthinking things. It happens to rookie WRs all over the league. I don't think one rookie WR had a good game last week.

Rob0729 said:

He was consistently open and burning the DBs of the Jets. That is much better than what Ochocinco, Chad Jackson, etc. ever did. Yes, Dobson had a bad night, but most of it is correctable. You can't teach burning defenders on a consistent basis (well, you can to a point).

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He was beating a fellow rookie who was so bad that he got benched. People are acting as if he was lighting up Deion Sanders in his prime. He wasn't. He was beating a player who's not ready to play man-to-man defense at the NFL level. You and I might have been able to get open against Milliner last night, and I'm not even kidding about that.

Rob0729 said:

Right now, Dobson is best served as a player who gets a handful of targets a game, but in a month he could be a significant contributor.

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Right now, he's best served as a player who, maybe, sees the field for 3-4 snaps a game, and maybe gets one pass thrown his way. Unfortunately, he's currently the team's WR3.

Deus Irae said:

He was beating a fellow rookie who was so bad that he got benched. People are acting as if he was lighting up Deion Sanders in his prime. He wasn't. He was beating a player who's not ready to play man-to-man defense at the NFL level. You and I might have been able to get open against Milliner last night, and I'm not even kidding about that.

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He burnt Cromartie a couple of times too and Cromartie had to blatantly hold him (which he got away with) to stop him from getting a pass early in the game.

Right now, he's best served as a player who, maybe, sees the field for 3-4 snaps a game, and maybe gets one pass thrown his way. Unfortunately, he's currently the team's WR3.

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Well, let's make that decision after one game. Time to write him off. He showed some good with the bad. He made an impossible catch that many receivers couldn't make while dropping a couple of easy ones. Let's see if he can cure the dropsies he had in the inaugural game. If his hands were as good as they were last year, people would be saying he had a pretty good game. Time to see if those drops were opening game of his career jitters or an issue going forward.