Explosive New Hernandez Details

PatsFanInVa · Jun 23, 2013

"Or others" indeed. Most of what I see "broken" here from the broadcast media is from Fox.

Be that as it may, this has become the sports story of the century. You can't turn on NFLN or ESPN without seeing the obligatory "We're standing here talking in front of the house" report. A lot of staking out to do to report, "Um he's still not under arrest but they carried out X bags of evidence."

They know what we want. This is their product. We are consumers. From the looks of this thread, it's a pretty good business decision to blather about Hernandez non-stop.

By the way, anagram kings, what the hell is the MSP?

Tyler.Durden · Jun 23, 2013

I'm curious, hasn't it been reported that
1: the victim was killed where he was found?
2: the cleaners stated they cleaned what looked like small blood stains in Ahern's house?
3: Was the car with the body or dumped elsewhere?

goheels22002 · Jun 23, 2013

If you listen carefully to the Fox 25 video, you can hear the second cop say, "I call first dibs on the General Gau's chicken!"

Pats0204 · Jun 23, 2013

Tyler.Durden said:
I'm curious, hasn't it been reported that
1: the victim was killed where he was found?
2: the cleaners stated they cleaned what looked like small blood stains in Ahern's house?
3: Was the car with the body or dumped elsewhere?[/QUOTE

In terms of the cleaners, I have not heard it reported from any of the media that the they reported cleaning small blood stains. This is the first I've heard that.

zoostation · Jun 23, 2013

PatsFanInVa said:
By the way, anagram kings, what the hell is the MSP?

Massachusetts state police

PatsFanInVa · Jun 23, 2013

Thank you Zoo, back in the loop now.

RayClay · Jun 23, 2013

patsfaninva said:
"or others" indeed. Most of what i see "broken" here from the broadcast media is from fox.

Be that as it may, this has become the sports story of the century. You can't turn on nfln or espn without seeing the obligatory "we're standing here talking in front of the house" report. A lot of staking out to do to report, "um he's still not under arrest but they carried out x bags of evidence."

they know what we want. This is their product. We are consumers. From the looks of this thread, it's a pretty good business decision to blather about hernandez non-stop.

By the way, anagram kings, what the hell is the msp?

pms? ............

fnordcircle · Jun 23, 2013

BigMike said:
Then you should be upset with the Patriots, since they have banned him from entering team property. Why would they do that?

Can you post any report stating that he was banned from team property?

The closest thing to 'banned' we've seen is that after 35 minutes he was asked to leave because of the media circus following him having the possibility of interrupting an event at Gillette with Gov. Patrick.

Your conscious use of the word banned is either ignorance on your part or an attempt to wordsmith the event into something that suits your presuppositions about all of this.

edboc · Jun 23, 2013

bigballas said:
what kinda financial outs do we have on his contract?

Here's a good article on this issue:
Potential Salary Loss for Aaron Hernandez - Over the Cap

Basically it sounds like the Patriots are better off keeping him on the roster (put on the Reserve/Suspended list), and the league would suspend him based personal conduct detrimental to the league and team:

There is little to be gained by releasing Hernandez. He is only set to earn $3.223 million in cash over the next two years, most of which is tied to actually playing football. Even though the contract is guaranteed he still needs to be on an active roster in order to earn his Paragraph 5 salary and I believe his roster bonus, which in his rookie contract was tied to being on the active roster and seems to have rolled over to his new contract.
Players suspended do not earn their salary. If Hernandez is placed on the Reserve/Suspended list by the league the guarantees mean nothing. The league has the ability to suspend a player and declare him ineligible for conduct so the Patriots would get the same protection from paying guarantees by simply petitioning the NFL to suspend Hernandez rather than releasing him under the conduct clause.

So for every game that Hernandez fails to play due placement on Reserve/Suspended he will lose 1/17 of his base salary and $7,375 of a roster bonus in 2013, and 1/17 of his base salary in 2014. That is regardless of guarantees. The Patriots will receive immediate salary cap relief if suspended. Now we get to the bigger reason why the Patriots will keep Hernandez on the roster.

Under the new CBA, failure to perform the duties of your contract due to incarceration triggers a forfeitable breach allowing a team to recover signing bonus money that has been paid but unaccounted for on the salary cap. Hernandez received a $12.5 million dollar signing bonus in 2012, of which only $2.5 million has been accounted for. That leaves $10 million in potential forfeiture for the Patriots to reclaim if Hernandez does not report due to being jailed. If jailed this year he can also forfeit $50,000 of his signing bonus he received as a rookie in 2010.

If placed on the suspended list due to being jailed the Patriots will recover 1/17 of his yearly signing bonus allocation for each game he is unavailable to the team to play football. So each year the team will recover $2.5 million, a significantly higher number than the base salary in question for the 2013 and 2014 League Years. Even if he plays out the 2013 season and is then jailed in 2014 the Patriots would pay him $1.523 million in 2013 for the opportunity to win back $7.5 million in bonus money. So for their own financial purposes they need to stand by Hernandez to allow the process to play out.

PP2 · Jun 23, 2013

TheBostonStraggler said:
AH being ruled out as a suspect by investigators has little chance of happening anytime soon, IMO. Assuming investigators have established a time of death/a firm time range of death, and assuming they know the place the body was found is the lone crime scene (there could be multiple locations), they would have attempted to establish AH's whereabouts. Since the police executed a search warrant at the residence of AH yesterday, a plausible conclusion is investigators have not placed AH's whereabouts away from the scene of the crime during the time of death.....meaning he remains a person of interest. I just don't think physical evidence from his house will change that.

Of course this is speculation. His whereabouts may have actually already ruled him out as a suspect at the scene(s) of the crime. The warrants and interest in AH may be based on investigator's belief he was involved in a connected crime such as a conspiracy or some sort of abetting. Or the warrants could be aimed at gathering evidence on someone else who lives or frequents AH's home. Or it could be that investigators lack any hard evidence pointing to a specific suspect, and they are basing their interest on AH's home because of some circumstantial evidence in the hopes of uncovering hard evidence and establishing a firm suspect(s) (a fishing expedition).
While there are these and other possibilities, I just don't know if I see many of them excluding AH from the investigation in the near future. That is my hope but I am not hopeful of it.....

This line of thinking is very solid and is what I feel could be the real issue now; namely that they cannot concretely establish Hernandez's absence from the crime scene, which is sufficient cause for prosecution, I believe.

I was also just thinking that most of the people in charge of this investigation are also, more or less, Patriots fans (they are human too) and thereby are well aware that what they are going to do is most likely going to destroy what would have been a brilliant NFL career. I think that is one reason this thing has been so slow and deliberate.

flasox27 · Jun 23, 2013

PP2 said:
This line of thinking is very solid and is what I feel could be the real issue now; namely that they cannot concretely establish Hernandez's absence from the crime scene, which is sufficient cause for prosecution, I believe.

I was also just thinking that most of the people in charge of this investigation are also, more or less, Patriots fans (they are human too) and thereby are well aware that what they are going to do is most likely going to destroy what would have been a brilliant NFL career. I think that is one reason this thing has been so slow and deliberate.

I don't think prosecution works that way in the US. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was a participant in the crime (Innocent until proven guilty). He doesn't have to prove that he didn't participate in the crime (guilty until proven innocent).

patsinthesnow · Jun 23, 2013

This is moving slowly....

PP2 · Jun 23, 2013

flasox27 said:
I don't think prosecution works that way in the US. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was a participant in the crime (Innocent until proven guilty). He doesn't have to prove that he didn't participate in the crime (guilty until proven innocent).

I think I worded that rather badly.I was just thinking that even if they can't prove he was directly involved in the murder, they could probably be able to piece everything together and be able to make a sufficient case that Hernandez is at least complicit. I think that is prosecutable- this is not CSI, but real life, and more often than not, cases are made on barely tangible proof.

Ring 6 · Jun 23, 2013

PP2 said:
I think I worded that rather badly.I was just thinking that even if they can't prove he was directly involved in the murder, they could probably be able to piece everything together and be able to make a sufficient case that Hernandez is at least complicit. I think that is prosecutable- this is not CSI, but real life, and more often than not, cases are made on barely tangible proof.

I disagree. Barely tangible proof is not going to convict anyone.
It could be used to arrest in order to dig for more, but no jury is convicting anyone without solid proof, much less even indict them.

nowayback · Jun 23, 2013

PP2 said:
I think I worded that rather badly.I was just thinking that even if they can't prove he was directly involved in the murder, they could probably be able to piece everything together and be able to make a sufficient case that Hernandez is at least complicit. I think that is prosecutable- this is not CSI, but real life, and more often than not, cases are made on barely tangible proof.

And cases with "good" evidence do not always lead to a conviction.
for me up till now I dont see him even being arrested. Maybe the bags of stuff they have removed from his house will change that. And I am sure there is a lot of proof for or against up till now that we know nothing about.

Does anyone know if the rental was found near the body.....how did AH get home? walked? If he was driving, why would he leave it there? Did Lloyd drop him off 1st?

Bruins29 · Jun 23, 2013

Seems like there are 4 possibilities with this whole thing:

1. AH did it. Wanted Lloyd dead and shot him.

2. AH had a hand in it. Wanted Lloyd dead and planned it out and had someone else do it - either a friend or a staged situation. Drug deal set up etc..

3. AH is caught up in it but had nothing to do with it. Either someone AH knows wanted Lloyd dead, or killed Lloyd them self, of this was a drug deal gone bad etc.

4. AH was set up to look like he did it. Promised some thug some money when he made it big, diddnt give it to someone or something like that. Thug tries to get back at AH by either murdering AH's friend or making it look like AH did it.

I cant believe AH is stupid enough to do 1. I cant see it.

Even 2 seems like a stretch. It plausable, but seems way to risky. I mean if you want to get rid of someone (that you have been with all night) and you have his type of money there are better ways to do this than shoot someone and leave them a mile from your home out in the open for a jogger to see. Even idiotic Casey Anthony was smarter than that.

3 seems the most likely. Granted if AH panicked and tried to help whomever might have done this to "cover it up" he is in big trouble.

4 is also possible. Nothing would surprise me given the type of people he hung around. Also anytime you have drugs and lots of money involved with stupid people there is this possibility.

upstater1 · Jun 23, 2013

Bruins29 said:
Seems like there are 4 possibilities with this whole thing:

1. AH did it. Wanted Lloyd dead and shot him.

2. AH had a hand in it. Wanted Lloyd dead and planned it out and had someone else do it - either a friend or a staged situation. Drug deal set up etc..

3. AH is caught up in it but had nothing to do with it. Either someone AH knows wanted Lloyd dead, or killed Lloyd them self, of this was a drug deal gone bad etc.

4. AH was set up to look like he did it. Promised some thug some money when he made it big, diddnt give it to someone or something like that. Thug tries to get back at AH by either murdering AH's friend or making it look like AH did it.

I cant believe AH is stupid enough to do 1. I cant see it.

Even 2 seems like a stretch. It plausable, but seems way to risky. I mean if you want to get rid of someone (that you have been with all night) and you have his type of money there are better ways to do this than shoot someone and leave them a mile from your home out in the open for a jogger to see. Even idiotic Casey Anthony was smarter than that.

3 seems the most likely. Granted if AH panicked and tried to help whomever might have done this to "cover it up" he is in big trouble.

4 is also possible. Nothing would surprise me given the type of people he hung around. Also anytime you have drugs and lots of money involved with stupid people there is this possibility.

Those variations don't even begin to cover the many possibilities. One of the men in the house was the uncle of Lloyd's girlfriend. What if this was a boyfriend-girlfriend type killing.

A good number of murder cases fall into that category.

Ironman44 · Jun 23, 2013

One thing that is circumstantial but at the same time a bit of a red flag is the fact that Lloyd's parents were interviewed and said they had received calls from everybody (condolences?) EXCEPT AH. They said AH and him were friends.

It is clear the parents would have expected him to call.

That is classic guilty behavior. Again its circumstantial but I am sure it is raising a major red flag. If you have nothing to do with it,and you are expected to make a phone call , you call.

PatsFanInVa · Jun 23, 2013

Iron dude, that is a classic division of what you'd expect from someone who's got nothing to lose by calling and someone who's got 20 cops carrying bags of evidence out of his house.

It kind of only confirms the level of assumed complicity we're already dealing with. Not saying that I know he's clean. This is just not something I'd expect a lawyer to say "yeah go ahead do that" if things are at all hairy. And a couple dozen officers searching your house? Yeah to me, that falls into the "things are hairy" category.

BTW, not that it exculpates anybody, but who names their kid freaking Odin? It's like, Hernandez had better watch it if he ends up in prison.. Tyr and Thor Lloyd are gonna be waiting for him out in the yard...

Too soon?

nowayback · Jun 23, 2013

I'll take a # 3 drug deal ....please medium rare

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