Patriots Sign Tim Tebow

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Jun 12, 2013

facts of the contract: not a penny guaranteed, minimum salary, with incentives for snaps played

I still fail to see the risk involved.

There is none, unless Mike Kafka blows up and becomes the next Tom Brady for the Jacksonville Jaguars.

PatsWickedPissah · Jun 12, 2013

fnordcircle said:
I think that is only half of the group.

Back when Brady was first starting for us I used to have to defend him on SomethingAwful against people who thought he was just a system QB. He didn't have the stats that Manning had so they viewed Manning as the superior young QB. I'd say that Brady is a superior player in the clutch and I'd get laughed at.

Fantasy Football has given rise to a new type of fan, the Football Atheist. If it cannot be quantified in a stat sheet it does not exist. They scoff at ideas like clutch, momentum, 'it' factor, etc.

And a lot of the people on this board fit that bill now that Brady has become a stat machine (but his post season record has gotten worse)

For those people Tebow's religion has nothing to do with it. They will cite stats and note his mechanics as reasons why he can never make it as a QB.

For people like me, who do believe in esoteric concepts when it comes to evaluating a player, the season he had in Denver exemplifies what it means to be a guy who just has a knack of winning games. For people who don't believe in those concepts Denver was an aberration - a terrible QB who was carried to victory by his team mates (the same ones who had **** the bed before he took over as starting QB)

I guess that's what bothers me about the 'they hate him for what he stands for' meme you read in every Tebow discussion. There's a lot of people who either respect him for living according to his faith or who don't give a **** about it who just don't like the guy as a QB.

and one year later after the playoff win against the Steelers, it's interesting that Denver's vaunted QB crapped the bed in its 1st post season game

Jack Handy · Jun 12, 2013

Ivan said:
If Tim Tebow received the same amount of attention as any other borderline 3rd string QB it really wouldn't be any issue at all, however instead of getting the attention deserving of his status he gets the attention that a HOF quality starting QB should receive and then his fans get really upset that people want them to shut up about a player no-one should be talking about to begin with. If there were 40 threads about Mike Kafka when he signed here I guarantee that fans here would be telling those starting them and those blubbering about him to stop the presses and shut the threads down. Unfortunately for Tebow, and in part because of his own behaviors in trumpeting his faith, when he comes to town the circus comes with him, and all those but his ardent fan base are really really sick of the hype and the circus. If Belichick can successfully shut down the circus and Tebow can help them practice for the read and react defenses they will face then maybe they can salvage something from the signing but other than that he really has no value to this team, and if lightning strikes twice and he ends up actually playing QB then they can kiss their season goodbye because he simply is not an NFL QB. I seriously doubt it will ever come to that but for all of our sakes let;s hope it doesn't.

So it is OK to hope he fails because:

of his religion?
there are others that wish him to succeed?
he is taking a spot an UDFA can have?

Which is your choice?

Deus Irae · Jun 12, 2013

“Like I said, we’re not going to get into a minute-by-minute evaluation of a player. I don’t think that’s the way to go, especially at this time of year,” Belichick said.

Faced with other questions about Tebow, Belichick gave non-answers. The question, “How did Tim Tebow look yesterday?” was met with this answer:

“I think everybody out there is pretty much in the same boat: just trying to get better day by day. Some guys are starting at different points; he’s obviously starting at a point different than where other players were. They’re all moving along. Guys that are out there are making progress. Guys that aren’t are doing what they can do and they’re falling behind.”

Belichick to reporters: I’m not giving minute-by-minute Tebow news | ProFootballTalk

OMG! Big top!

Kontradiction · Jun 12, 2013

fnordcircle said:
I think that is only half of the group.

Back when Brady was first starting for us I used to have to defend him on SomethingAwful against people who thought he was just a system QB. He didn't have the stats that Manning had so they viewed Manning as the superior young QB. I'd say that Brady is a superior player in the clutch and I'd get laughed at.

Fantasy Football has given rise to a new type of fan, the Football Atheist. If it cannot be quantified in a stat sheet it does not exist. They scoff at ideas like clutch, momentum, 'it' factor, etc.

And a lot of the people on this board fit that bill now that Brady has become a stat machine (but his post season record has gotten worse)

For those people Tebow's religion has nothing to do with it. They will cite stats and note his mechanics as reasons why he can never make it as a QB.

For people like me, who do believe in esoteric concepts when it comes to evaluating a player, the season he had in Denver exemplifies what it means to be a guy who just has a knack of winning games. For people who don't believe in those concepts Denver was an aberration - a terrible QB who was carried to victory by his team mates (the same ones who had **** the bed before he took over as starting QB)

I guess that's what bothers me about the 'they hate him for what he stands for' meme you read in every Tebow discussion. There's a lot of people who either respect him for living according to his faith or who don't give a **** about it who just don't like the guy as a QB.

I've actually never cited his stats before, if you care to look back at it. What I've cited is how easy he is to beat as a starting quarterback and backed that up by showing you an example where the second worst pass defense in NFL history absolutely crushed him... twice.

FirstAndGoal · Jun 12, 2013

Jack Handy said:
So it is OK to hope he fails because:

of his religion?
there are others that wish him to succeed?
he is taking a spot an UDFA can have?

Which is your choice?

Not what he's saying. What he's saying is that he can't stomach those who want him to succeed because of his religion.

I believe Curt Warner to be every bit religious yet he isn't paraded around by his followers. I'm sure there are plenty who don't flaunt it. I couldn't tell you the Catholics, Jews, or Muslims either. I can tell you Tim Tebow is a Fundamentalist Christian though. His followers won't stop telling people that he is not getting a fair shot because of it.

We only give a crap when people make it an issue (either way). I don't care if he worships Satan until you start telling me how he's under fire because he worships Satan. Then people will role their eyes about that too.

Ivan · Jun 12, 2013

Jack Handy said:
So it is OK to hope he fails because:

of his religion?
there are others that wish him to succeed?
he is taking a spot an UDFA can have?

Which is your choice?

I never said anything like that. I don't want him because imo he sucks as an NFL QB and I think the roster spot would be better used on a player who can actually contribute something. And the truth is that there have been many successful UDFA's for the Patriots and I would much rather have one of them take the spot. Where the roster is at 90 right now that isn't much of an issue, it only becomes one if he makes the 53, which I don't believe will be the case.

As far as his faith goes Tebow, like everyone else, has every right to believe in whatever he wishes to believe in, and he also has the right to trumpet it and proselytize all he wants, but I'm not going to pretend I appreciate that or respect that as i think that those who feel the need to push their religious beliefs on others are actually the ones showing no respect for the faith's and beliefs of others. And while I don't like the proselytizing I would still accept it if he played like Tom Brady rather than worse than Brady Quinn. My opposition to Tebow is purely based on his abilities as a QB, nothing else. There are many many religious player's in the NFL and i don't have any problem with any of them and would be fine with any of those who are good playing for the Patriots regardless of what faith they ascribe themselves to, what matters is their play and how much they can contribute.

Ivan · Jun 12, 2013

Jack Handy said:
So it is OK to hope he fails because:

of his religion?
there are others that wish him to succeed?
he is taking a spot an UDFA can have?

Which is your choice?

Actually what is OK is not wanting him because he sucks, not wanting a player because of their religious beliefs would be beyond stupid if they can really help your team.

As for asking whether I would rather have Tim Tebow or a UDFA my answer is the UDFA as long as their prospect of contributing here is better than Tebow's, and that's not a high bar to get over.

BrickPat · Jun 12, 2013

If you had an opportunity to draft / sign a good to great player would asking about their religion be the first thing that comes to mind?

No because it's a non factor.

Does a player's religion mitigate or otherwise excuse their playmaking deficiences?

No because it's a non factor.

Bruins29 · Jun 12, 2013

Ivan, I assume you wanted Kafla out of here because he sucked too?

Ironman44 · Jun 12, 2013

Ivan said:
If Tim Tebow received the same amount of attention as any other borderline 3rd string QB it really wouldn't be any issue at all, however instead of getting the attention deserving of his status he gets the attention that a HOF quality starting QB should receive and then his fans get really upset that people want them to shut up about a player no-one should be talking about to begin with. If there were 40 threads about Mike Kafka when he signed here I guarantee that fans here would be telling those starting them and those blubbering about him to stop the presses and shut the threads down. Unfortunately for Tebow, and in part because of his own behaviors in trumpeting his faith, when he comes to town the circus comes with him, and all those but his ardent fan base are really really sick of the hype and the circus. If Belichick can successfully shut down the circus and Tebow can help them practice for the read and react defenses they will face then maybe they can salvage something from the signing but other than that he really has no value to this team, and if lightning strikes twice and he ends up actually playing QB then they can kiss their season goodbye because he simply is not an NFL QB. I seriously doubt it will ever come to that but for all of our sakes let;s hope it doesn't.

So its about his fans shutting up? what fans? where are they? I like tebow and all I have said is " he might not make the team, if he does maybe he can help the team somehow" that's hardly hysterical talk that merits me shutting up.

ITS THE MEDIA that goes bonkers and its because he has a MASSIVE hater legion along with a fan base. Its both combined that create the vortex of the circus. I want nothing more than to see the media shut up about him. But its not his fault, so wishing bad on him is pretty weak.I am not saying you did it but others have.

If you are a Patriot fan the worst hing you should be saying is "he probably wont make the squad...so who cares" instead there is a ton of venom being dumped in this thread.

My point is there are all sorts of haters in all sports , for teams and players and coaches and events and then there are Tebow haters, a totally different breed hell bent and emotionally invested in seeing him fail. Its just bizarre to me.

and as far as saying you want any UDFA signed over Tebow, Tebow really is 9-7 as a starter that is not a mirage, he also has scored 32 NFL Tds and has a 5.4 YPC average and was the NFL's #1 red zone TD efficiency in 2011, also was responsible for Denver going form 24th in rushing to 1st in a 5 game span. . So I will respectfully disagree that any UDFA is better than tebow at 3rd string QB. He has a gazillion faults but hes not the worse player ever.

kennyb · Jun 12, 2013

I don't know that I'd say I HOPE he fails. I'm pretty sure he will and if he does, yes, I'll get some schadenfruede out of it. I've seen his followers say that basically he's basically God's football player. He's on a mission from God.

Sean Hannity on his Pittsburgh playoff win: "Do you know how many passing yards he had? 316! Three-Sixteen!! How many yards per pass, get this...31.6 !! [Get it? John 3:16]. Do you think there's something going on there?"

But on the other hand since logic isn't their strong suit, they'll just say that the NFL has "turned it's back on God" and are persecuting poor timmy because of his love for Jesus.

Ironman44 · Jun 12, 2013

kennyb said:
I don't know that I'd say I HOPE he fails. I'm pretty sure he will and if he does, yes, I'll get some schadenfruede out of it. I've seen his followers say that basically he's basically God's football player. He's on a mission from God.

Sean Hannity on his Pittsburgh playoff win: "Do you know how many passing yards he had? 316! Three-Sixteen!! How many yards per pass, get this...31.6 !! [Get it? John 3:16]. Do you think there's something going on there?"

But on the other hand since logic isn't their strong suit, they'll just say that the NFL has "turned it's back on God" and are persecuting poor timmy because of his love for Jesus.

You are obviously anti religion (and that is fine) and that's were your feelings stem from, I could care less what people believe in, Satan or sky wizards, I like him as a football player. But it goes to show why you specifically wouldn't mind seeing him fail .
At least you are honest about it.

Its kind of sad because the kid is a good human being donating his money, building hospitals for sick kids, absolutely relentless in his good deeds, so to wish failure on him, IMHO no matter religious affiliation is sad.

Joker · Jun 12, 2013

I really hope the girl in this clip doesn't go out and just do something terrible to all the "haters"....

LEAVE TEBOW ALONE - YouTube

Synovia · Jun 12, 2013

Ironman44 said:
. But its not his fault, so wishing bad on him is pretty weak.

Its as much "not his fault" as it was not Brett Favre's fault. You don't get to say "its not me" when you're a borderline NFL player calling weekly press conferences to talk about yourself.

Its not his fault that the media eats it up, but he's certainly feeding into it.

Bruins29 · Jun 12, 2013

Joker said:
I really hope the girl in this clip doesn't go out and just do something terrible to all the "haters"....

LEAVE TEBOW ALONE - YouTube

Well Joker, in all fairness this might be the only communication with a woman these "Tebow haters" will have. So I applaud your efforts in assisting that crew.

Synovia · Jun 12, 2013

Ironman44 said:
Its kind of sad because the kid is a good human being donating his money, building hospitals for sick kids, absolutely relentless in his good deeds, so to wish failure on him, IMHO no matter religious affiliation is sad.

Speaking for hate groups. Encouraging intolerance. He's not a good guy. He's a bigoted fanatic.

There's plenty of reasons to wish ill will on him, and most of them are being driven by his religious beliefs.

Gumby · Jun 12, 2013

kennyb said:
I don't know that I'd say I HOPE he fails. I'm pretty sure he will and if he does, yes, I'll get some schadenfruede out of it. I've seen his followers say that basically he's basically God's football player. He's on a mission from God.

Sean Hannity on his Pittsburgh playoff win: "Do you know how many passing yards he had? 316! Three-Sixteen!! How many yards per pass, get this...31.6 !! [Get it? John 3:16]. Do you think there's something going on there?"

But on the other hand since logic isn't their strong suit, they'll just say that the NFL has "turned it's back on God" and are persecuting poor timmy because of his love for Jesus.

Funny, but it seems to me after reading 748 Posts that the ONLY ONES bringing up GOD, JESUS, or "John 3:16" ARE THE CRITICS.

The guys who defended the signing defend him on merits of an actual record and the COMPARATIVELY LOW position he is being signed up for: QB # 3 (THREE - that is CANT PLAY TIL 4th QTR EMERGENCY QB -THREE) and the comparatively LOW cost (~$600K/yr no bonuses - 2 yr contract).

I think you need to go take a look in the mirror, then............just let it go.
It is what it is. ...... The team is gonna take it day to day and then see who can contribute.

Ivan · Jun 12, 2013

Ironman44 said:
So its about his fans shutting up? what fans? where are they? I like tebow and all I have said is " he might not make the team, if he does maybe he can help the team somehow" that's hardly hysterical talk that merits me shutting up.

ITS THE MEDIA that goes bonkers and its because he has a MASSIVE hater legion along with a fan base. Its both combined that create the vortex of the circus. I want nothing more than to see the media shut up about him. But its not his fault, so wishing bad on him is pretty weak.I am not saying you did it but others have.

If you are a Patriot fan the worst hing you should be saying is "he probably wont make the squad...so who cares" instead there is a ton of venom being dumped in this thread.

My point is there are all sorts of haters in all sports , for teams and players and coaches and events and then there are Tebow haters, a totally different breed hell bent and emotionally invested in seeing him fail. Its just bizarre to me.

and as far as saying you want any UDFA signed over Tebow, Tebow really is 9-7 as a starter that is not a mirage, he also has scored 32 NFL Tds and has a 5.4 YPC average and was the NFL's #1 red zone TD efficiency in 2011, also was responsible for Denver going form 24th in rushing to 1st in a 5 game span. . So I will respectfully disagree that any UDFA is better than tebow at 3rd string QB. He has a gazillion faults but hes not the worse player ever.

I'll take a UDFA over Tebow because the UDFA might actually be able to contribute something, whereas I see absolutely no way Tebow can contribute anything at the QB position, so imo he is simply wasting his time in NE other than to rehab his viability. He may be able to help a team that runs a read and react offense but that's not the Patriots and won't be any time soon. As far as his contributions to Denver go Elway couldn't get rid of him fast enough and that speaks volumes about where he stood in that organization. As for his stats 5.4 YPC is about as bad as it gets, and the Bronco's also had one of the worst teams in football when it came to their ability to sustain drives, which is a major point of emphasis in NE.

As for "hating" Tebow and "wanting him to fail" I have no investment in either, I actually think he's a good person but i also think he's a terrible fit at QB in NE and don't want them wasting their time on him because of that. S.F., Washington, Philly, Carolina or any of the other teams that run a read/react offense that suits his skills may be viable options for him but he has no place in a space and timing offense that uses a drop back passer and requires exceptional accuracy and traditional QB skills. You can view that as hating him for being a christian all you want but in truth it has nothing to do with that and only relates to his abilities as a QB, which is all i really care about.

FirstAndGoal · Jun 12, 2013

I don't care if he's a good guy or not. If I say he sucks (which I didn't), I don't want to hear what a good guy he is. It has nothing to do with his ability and he shouldn't get an inch of extra thought based on being a good guy. If he wants to date my daughter, great. If he wants to qb my team, forget it. I don't want to hear how it's because he's a "good guy" or that he's destined for sainthood.

Why do people have to talk about him being a good guy and why do people have to say it's about his beliefs? Kurt Warner can play for this team. It's yet to be seen if Tebow can.

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