Pats Fans are not Spoiled

Ron Borges actually had a good premise in this morning's column. He posited that losing doesn't equal failure. He's right. If you want failure, look at the damn Jets.

But then Ronny does what everyone, including Tom and many Pats fans, does: He calls out Pats fans for being spoiled.

It's not true.

1. You can criticize and analyze AND still be incredibly grateful for all we have. I know this because that's me and MANY other Pats fans I know. Yes, some fans missed the lean years and it's easier to have perspective if you lived through them, but even young fans are capable of critical thinking and appreciation at the same time. Frankly, it's not that hard.

2. The lack of crowd noise at the Razor is a red herring. The ends are open on both sides. There is no hanging part of the Stadium that keeps the noise in. The vaunted Seahawks crowd wouldn't be any louder in Foxboro.

3. The criticism of the Putnam seats is wrong. I've sat upstairs in the 300s many times. I've sat in the 100s many times. I've sat in the Putnam Club twice this past season (and once upstairs). Guess what? There are loud and passionate fans in all three places and there are casual fans in all three places. And there are usually plenty of visiting fans in all three places. Yes, in the first few minutes of the second half, the Putnam Club seating area is not very full. But by the 13:30 mark or so, people are back. Pointing the finger at those fans when the real problem is the configuration of the Stadium is silly.

4. I love Tommy but his comment about Pats fans being spoiled is unfair. We expect a level of success because this team is capable of it. That doesn't mean we're brats if we note that the team is not playing up to its capabilities or laid a freaking egg against the Ravens. Hell, there were times this past season (Cards game in particular) when the Pats just didn't perform as it could and the Ravens game is hard to wrap one's head around. Saying that is saying the truth, not a reflection of being spoiled.

Sorry for the rant but I HATE that mantra and hate that Pats fans seem to repeat it so frequently.

Expectations need to be lowered.

Hey, we made it to the SB.
Hey, we made it to the AFCC.
Hey, we won the Division.
Hey, we had a winning record.
Hey, we beat the Jets.

This run won't last forever, that's why it's critical to win now. Most of us experienced the Pats franchise of the 70's and 80's. And look at the Red Sox. No Championships for 86 years.

When you have good teams you should expect to win because you're not always going to have good teams.

As an aside, I have noticed Borges does this a lot. He writes the WTF ridiculous critical column when things go well and when we crap the bed he always writes an "unexpectedly" fair column defending the Pats and their accomplishments. Then we all sit around and praise him for being fair and writing a good column. I'm onto you, Borgy.

. The lack of crowd noise at the Razor is a red herring. The ends are open on both sides. There is no hanging part of the Stadium that keeps the noise in. The vaunted Seahawks crowd wouldn't be any louder in Foxboro.

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I was at the game sunday sitting in clubhouse seats and I was disgusted at the lack of enthusiasm and noise for a AFCC game.
Fans are spoiled and apathetic.

Patradomous said:

I was at the game sunday sitting in clubhouse seats and I was disgusted at the lack of enthusiasm and noise for a AFCC game.
Fans are spoiled and apathetic.

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I was not there so I can't really comment.

But the team was kind of dragarse too. Didn't finish drives, punted on the 34 twice, etc. I would think that it might have been a tough game to be loud at. Now don't get me wrong, I would have been fully into until the end. But even at home, that was as deflated as I've been watching a pats game in a while. The mood at my house with my crew of 10 pats fans was quieter than usual.

We really were not watching pats football.

Fans are not spoiled simply for voicing critiques or frustrations about the team.

The fans are spoiled and the crowd noise are two separate subjects, but they are related. My theory on it is: The $$$ of a ticket brings in a different crowd than what the franchise had in the old building, when ticket prices were lower. The fans are more upscale, spend more, and have a higher expectation for the team. They want a higher ROI. Add to that a winning tradition, and you have a quiet crowd who waits for the team to earn their affections as opposed to blindly supporting them win, lose or draw. Now add the physical dynamics of Gillette, and you have the appearance of a "spoiled" fan base. No less passionate, but less apt to accept less than 100% ROI on the entertainment dollar.

If this run ended and Tom Brady and Coach Belichick retired tomorrow, the first thing I would do is forget about the game the other night and reflect on what a great ride it has been. That is the appropriate time in my opinion to enjoy what we had.

The team is still very competitive and has set the bar high. I mean thank god the team isn't satisfied with past success. I mean if someone ran up to Tom at the end of the game and said "hey man don't worry, you've won a lot and been a great quarterback" he'd probably smile but deep down want to tell you to go f' off!

I love this block:

But to argue that a 12-4 season that ends one game from the Super Bowl makes you a failure is the kind of thinking that led the San Diego Chargers to fire Marty Schottenheimer in 2006 after a 14-2 season. How’s that worked out for them?

It is the response of a spoiled child, which a generation of Patriots fans have become. If you were, say, 15, in 2001 you’d be 27 today. In that time you’ve seen your team play in seven conference championship games and five Super Bowls. You’ve grown up thinking it’s your birthright that the Patriots hold the Lombardi Trophy, even though it’s been eight years since they last did it.

Sustained success results in one of two things: thankfulness or arrogance. It breeds appreciation or entitlement. Only you can decide where you fit but understand this: The 2012 New England Patriots didn’t fail to do anything but win their last game, a fate they will share with 30 of their peers by the end of Super Bowl Sunday.

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That about sums it up

Another broad brush statement "Patriots fans are spoiled". There are some that are very spoiled.

We all have high expectations for the team and should. That should continue continue into next season and beyond.

However there are some fans that have unrealistic expectations, they have no idea of the historic trends of winning and winning SB's in the NFL. And, when those expectations are not met they act out like little children. So yes a certain % of Patriots fans are spoiled, very spoiled.

Ian said:

I love this block:



That about sums it up

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"It is the response of a spoiled child, which a generation of Patriots fans have become."

You buy that sentence?

How many Pats fans who you know or even see epitomize that sentiment?

I think Borges could not be more wrong about that line.

As I said, criticizing and even expressing displeasure over games like this past Sunday does not remotely mean that we don't FULLY appreciate how lucky we are to have a team that has won as much as this one has and is, most importantly, a contender every season.

PS:

My son is 13. He didn't experience the SB wins in a real way. He was too young for them. He has only seen near misses and tough losses. Yet he's passionate as hell and deals with opposing fans/kids taunting him after EVERY Pats loss. Is he a spoiled fan? Of course not. No one would say he is. But Borges' comments don't allow for nuance or differences. Blah.

DarrylStingley said:

"It is the response of a spoiled child, which a generation of Patriots fans have become."

You buy that sentence?

How many Pats fans who you know or even see epitomize that sentiment?

I think Borges could not be more wrong about that line.

As I said, criticizing and even expressing displeasure over games like this past Sunday does not remotely mean that we don't FULLY appreciate how lucky we are to have a team that has won as much as this one has and is, most importantly, a contender every season.

PS:

My son is 13. He didn't experience the SB wins in a real way. He was too young for them. He has only seen near misses and tough losses. Yet he's passionate as hell and deals with opposing fans/kids taunting him after EVERY Pats loss. Is he a spoiled fan? Of course not. No one would say he is. But Borges' comments don't allow for nuance or differences. Blah.

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Yeah...I kind of do. Not saying it applies to everyone, but certainly quite a few of them. Hate to say it, but I've been doing this since '97 and the attitude was far different in the years leading up to 2001 than they are now. So unfortunately it's true with a lot of fans. I understand your argument, but having seen what I have over the years - there is indeed some truth to the "spoiled" label that is placed on them. Don't forget, it's been over a decade for any of the newer fans who hopped on the bandwagon when Brady won the first one - and that's when a lot of them did. Since then this team has never had a .500 or even a losing season and they've even seen an undefeated regular season - that's unprecedented. As a result a lot of people have gone from "hoping" they'd win a Super Bowl every year to "expecting" it - and that's a huge difference.

So I think that's more or less who he's talking about - and who I'm referring to. Not saying it applies to your son because you're able to provide him the necessary perspective. That's something - unfortunately - a lot of people have lost during this incredible run they've been on.

Here is the link to the column:

Patriots lost, but they didn't fail | Boston Herald

I do understand that the goal is to win the championship. I do understand the logic that not meeting your goal is failure. However if that is your viewpoint, then you should also be prepared for the inevitable reality that you are going to fail 97% of the time.


Can you imagine working with a salesperson in an industry where only 3% of all your business proposals resulted in a sale, and that salesperson one desk away from where you work flipping out every time he didn't close a sale in the same manner as what happens to this forum after every loss?


Borges does make a good point about a certain age group (late twenties) knowing nothing but success. The 'wasted opportunities' argument overlooks how difficult it is to win it all, trivializing that accomplishment as if it is something that is practically automatic and requires almost no effort.

Ian said:

Yeah...I kind of do. Not saying it applies to everyone, but certainly quite a few of them. Hate to say it, but I've been doing this since '97 and the attitude was far different in the years leading up to 2001 than they are now. So unfortunately it's true with a lot of fans. I understand your argument, but having seen what I have over the years - there is indeed some truth to the "spoiled" label that is placed on them. Don't forget, it's been over a decade for any of the newer fans who hopped on the bandwagon when Brady won the first one - and that's when a lot of them did. Since then this team has never had a .500 or even a losing season and they've even seen an undefeated regular season - that's unprecedented. As a result a lot of people have gone from "hoping" they'd win a Super Bowl every year to "expecting" it - and that's a huge difference.

So I think that's more or less who he's talking about - and who I'm referring to. Not saying it applies to your son because you're able to provide him the necessary perspective. That's something - unfortunately - a lot of people have lost during this incredible run they've been on.

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I haven't checked on it but I wonder how Steelers fans are handling their 8-8 season. Do they see it as a glitch, or as "all is lost"? You know that Pittsburgh is a quality organization and will be back in the mix sooner than later. It's amazing this Pats team has been so successful over the past 12 seasons.

I don't understand why it's hard it's hard to think that if a person (or organization) is great at something you don't expect them to continue to be great.

At my job if I am a great worker and all of a sudden my work isn't quite up to my usual standard I would think my boss, other employees, etc would at least question why?

The '85 and '95 teams that went to the Super bowl are the example of teams that we should be kinda thankful for and "just happy to be there" (Super Bowl)

Miktik said:

I don't understand why it's hard it's hard to think that if a person (or organization) is great at something you don't expect them to continue to be great.

At my job if I am a great worker and all of a sudden my work isn't quite up to my usual standard I would think my boss, other employees, etc would at least question why?

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You could also look at it this way: is it realistic to expect the Patriots to keep on winning Super Bowls?

Is it correct to conclude that the Patriots underachieved - when in fact they may have actually been overachieving these past few years?

jmt57 said:

You could also look at it this way: is it realistic to expect the Patriots to keep on winning Super Bowls?

Is it correct to conclude that the Patriots underachieved - when in fact they may have actually been overachieving these past few years?

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When the Pats lost to the 49ers, I was very proud. We have the right to complain. Not because the Pats Lost but because they didn't perform up to standard. We also lost because when we needed to go deep, we couldn't because we didn't have the personnel which is an issue we have been aware of Post-Moss. An issue that has hurt is before and an issue we didn't do a good job addressing.
We are upset because we didn't do out best at such a big stage

Miktik said:

I don't understand why it's hard it's hard to think that if a person (or organization) is great at something you don't expect them to continue to be great.

At my job if I am a great worker and all of a sudden my work isn't quite up to my usual standard I would think my boss, other employees, etc would at least question why?

The '85 and '95 teams that went to the Super bowl are the example of teams that we should be kinda thankful for and "just happy to be there" (Super Bowl)

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That's the problem - this team continues to be great. It's not as if they finished 6-10 or 8-8. They had yet another great year and came up just short of another Super Bowl berth. In all honestly last year's team shouldn't have even gotten there but somehow managed to fight their way into that game but just couldn't finish. To answer your question about the '85 and '95 teams, fans honestly appreciated that more because they realized back then how hard it is to get there.

As for this year, if you look at the discussions earlier this season after a loss, some of the comments were a little reactionary and a little over the top. A lot of people tend to forget they're not going to win every game and that it's not how you start but how you finish. They were better at the end than they were when they started and while everyone is disappointed, it's hard not to appreciate how much this team grew over the season and it just came down to a couple of injuries that ultimately cost them. It's not like they had Gronk, Talib, etc. for the whole game against the Ravens. Those were two key losses along with the injury to Ridley that ultimately turned the game and made them one-dimensional. It's disappointing, but the people who are ready to crucify them with some of the comments I've seen is a little disheartening, especially considering the year they really had.

I'm disappointed too and can't understand why they didn't use Vereen and create mismatches in the passing game the way they did against the Texans. When you consider that with Gronk out and the Ravens likely to flood the middle, they were undermanned and needed to do something...so I have my own issues. As a result I'm O.K. with focusing on specific instances and debating them. It's the people who say "they suck and are never going to win another one" that are enough to make it a little unbearable at times. That doesn't really do anyone any good, and they've been too good for too long to warrant that.

I'm waiting for the first 7-9 season where people completely lose their minds...that should be really interesting

There have been some real gems in my FB feed....one of my New Englander friends started wondering about the no Superbowls after Spygate thing and ended it with my alltime most hated Internet phrase, "just sayin'". He ended up apologizing to me after I expressed my disgust with him and laid out the facts.

Another friend is from the college days in Maryland, so she's a huge Ravens fan. She posted how she couldn't believe they were in the Superbowl, Pinch me, yay, type deal. And as I was hiding her from my news feed, I pondered to myself what my reaction would be if it was us, again. It would not have been "ZOMG, WE DID IT" it would have been,"hopefully we can win it this time, because I really want four!" and that right there says I'm spoiled.