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Pats vs. Niners - Initial Thoughts


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this is coming from a person that has watched every 49er game this season and only highlights of patriots games. i know the 49ers love the hard hitting grind-it-out type of game and i have a feeling this weekend will be no different. of course, you Pats fans have been watching the most prolific offense in the nfl every week so i don't expect you to take my opinion kindly ;)

nobody on the 9ers hits this hard

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or this hard...(mind you that the target is 320 lbs)
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them is our starting DT's

then there one LB
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and again
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LOL.......last year? you're talking one game? how about THE ENTIRE SEASON? gronk had the best season ever for a TE almost 1400 yards and 17 TDs

at the same time davis was gettin 180 yards and 2 TD's, gronk was catching 145 yards and 3 TD's....I'll take the TD's

37 TD's in 42 games.....davis? 40TD's in 101 games
davis went 45 games before his first 100 yard game.....gronk has had 10 in 42 games.

fact is, no TE has ever had a 1st 42 games like gronk......

which TE has the most yards in a season? how about most TD's in a season?

try again

I really have no idea why you think I am arguing that VD is better than Gronk. I never said that. My main point was that VD poses a unique challenge to defenses due to his speed.

And I acknowledged that VD is underutilized and has been hamstrung by the Niners offense during his career.

But hey, at least you got to whip out your statistics
 
I really have no idea why you think I am arguing that VD is better than Gronk. I never said that. My main point was that VD poses a unique challenge to defenses due to his speed.

And I acknowledged that VD is underutilized and has been hamstrung by the Niners offense during his career.

But hey, at least you got to whip out your statistics

gronk is a bigger challenge at practice
 
gronk is a bigger challenge at practice

I think Vernon Davis is more dangerous in terms of athletic ability. He's nowhere near the blocker, the route runner or the pass catcher Gronkowski is though. But there's no question to me Davis' among the 5 best TEs in the game, and even if the 9ers offense seems to forget about him for stretches of time, he still has the potential to create mismatches all over the field, especially if we're playing base defense for the better part of the game. I, for one, am dreading the sight of Brandon Spikes chasing Davis down the seam. After Gore, he's the one player Belichick should key on.
 
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I really have no idea why you think I am arguing that VD is better than Gronk. I never said that. My main point was that VD poses a unique challenge to defenses due to his speed.

And I acknowledged that VD is underutilized and has been hamstrung by the Niners offense during his career.

But hey, at least you got to whip out your statistics
Can't help you. Once he gets going he going you just have to ride it out. He comes back to land eventually. ;)

I don't know why you are arguing anyway, since the Niners are going to have to get to the Superbowl to actually see him on the field. He's not going to be there on Sunday.

As to the basic issue, Gronk is different than Davis. And definitely more impactful because he's a bigger red zone threat and the best in line blocker in the league. But that doesn't make Davis any less of a threat to the Pats. TE's a lot less talented than Davis have done some damage to the Pats. Personally I'm hoping the Niners continue to ignore him.
 
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I think Vernon Davis is more dangerous in terms of athletic ability.

maybe if you put him on a track, but in 8 years on the field, he has never shown the consistent ability to be that dangerous. sure he's had a moment here and there, but it too k 4 years just to get his first 100 yard game.

he has never had a 14 ypc season. gronk has that for a career average.

you could say that davis has the appearance that he could be more dangerous, but its never really panned out that way....

nothing against him, but he's pretty much become useless with kaepernick in there....his lowest output over 3 games since weeks 1-3 of his rookie year
 
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Can't help you. Once he gets going he going you just have to ride it out. He comes back to land eventually. ;)

I don't know why you are arguing anyway, since the Niners are going to have to get to the Superbowl to actually see him on the field. He's not going to be there on Sunday.

As to the basic issue, Gronk is different than Davis. And definitely more impactful because he's a bigger red zone threat and the best in line blocker in the league. But that doesn't make Davis any less of a threat to the Pats. TE's a lot less talented than Davis have done some damage to the Pats. Personally I'm hoping the Niners continue to ignore him.

except that kaepernick doesn't use him
 
Gronk maybe missed more in this game. SF cna put pressure with 4 and like the giants cover deep. If brady cant stretch the field, our offense can sputter. We saw what happened vs houston once they adjusted daring brady to throw deep .Until the stallworth TD, pats offense could not do anything.
 
Gronk maybe missed more in this game. SF cna put pressure with 4 and like the giants cover deep. If brady cant stretch the field, our offense can sputter. We saw what happened vs houston once they adjusted daring brady to throw deep .Until the stallworth TD, pats offense could not do anything.

that may well be, but along with the giants, the 9ers will be facing the best OL they've had to face all year. I think you will see the pats run.

but what it's really about is stopping the 9ers running game. if you shut down their running game, they lose
 
I posted this in another thread but I think it fits better here:

Their defense is great but I think if you look closer at their games on the schedule there are things that factor into making them look a bit better. I think someone brought this up but the QB's they've faced this season: Rodgers, Stafford, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, Ponder, Eli, Russel Wilson, Skelton, Sam Bradford, Jason Campbell, Brees (who threw 2 pick 6's), and Ryan Tannehill.

The only good QB's they've played that are even close to Brady are Rodgers, Brees, and Eli.

Rodgers v.s. the 49ers: 30/44 303YDs 2TD 1NT
Brees v.s. the 49ers: 26/41 267YDs 3TD 2INT
Eli v.s. the 49ers: 15/28 193YDs 1TD

When Rodgers and Eli played them that is when they were both going through rough patches imo. Brees has been struggling all season but without the 2 pick 6's the Saints win. Two teams that they lost to Rams and Giants I think the Patriots can replicate what they did.
 
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Tedy Bruschi on Pats-49ers:

Bruschi's Breakdown: Patriots will go after Kaepernick's experience - ESPN Boston

Nice discussion of how Aldon Smith sometimes piggybacks behind Justin Smith. Gets back to the whole Kevin Gilbride "Justin Smith gets away with murder" discussion prior to the Giants game last October (grabbing hold of offensive linemens' jerseys and getting his hands inside and twisting, keeping them from freeing up, and allowing Aldon Smith a free route to the QB). Sounds from Tedy's discussion like it's a pretty commonplace practice, just taken to an art form. Unlike Gilbride, Tedy's not *****ing about it - sounds like he respects and even admires it, under the "use anything you can get away with" principle.
 
Metaphors said:
This is easily the most interesting matchup of the year. Here are the keys to the game from my perspective:

1) Pats offense needs to limit negative plays. No turnovers and limit killer holding and dead ball penalties. Account for ASmith and that is 2/3 of the Niners sack potential. Take the available profit on each play and don't get greedy.

2) Pats defense needs to keep the Niners predictable. The weather may assist with this. CK hasn't passed for 250 yds in his 4.5 starts...so make him try to get 300+ Sunday night. Make the Niners play lefthanded by using SEC linebackers (DAMN YOU GRUDEN!!!) CK is best when he has the whole playbook available to him. Control the down/distance and his efficiency plummets.

3) The 49ers have lost a few playmakers this year that could affect the game Sunday. Kyle Williams (WR, KR) and Kendall Hunter (RB) are on IR and Manningham didn't play against Miami. That puts more of a focus on Gore and Crabtree...and potentially simplifies the task of getting the 49ers out of their comfort zone.

4) The 49ers surprisingly used the TEs very little against the Fins (3 targets). I expect that to change on Sunday. The Pats will need to come up with a coverage scheme that keeps Davis/Walker from running free downfield. If they can keep the damage to underneath throws and tackle well, that will go a long way to keeping the Niners out of the end zone.

5) The Pats are a slightly lefthanded running team, but the Niners are very lefthanded. It will be critical for Jones to hold the edge against Staley and keep the Niners from getting outside.

6) The 49ers have been vulnerable recently to the short passing game. Amendola caught 10+ balls in the tie and Sproles/Bush were successful catching the ball in their games. Even Stephen Jackson (with Amendola out) did well a couple of weeks ago in the Rams win. If the Pats can stay on schedule, there should be opportunities to move the ball.

This game could already be won or lost based on the gameplan in place for both teams. Both teams execute very well and typically don't beat themselves. They each have weak points and they each have the horses to attack them. Monday was an important game for playoff positioning. This Sunday will be a greaçt gauge to see if the team has progressed from being a favorite to reach the SB to being a favorite to win it.




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he'll have to do it against mankins...mankins is fresh.....in fact, it's going to be the smiths against solder and mankins.........have the smiths faced anything even close to that? the smiths should be a little concerned about these 2 exerting their will on them.


Tedy Bruschi on Pats-49ers:

Bruschi's Breakdown: Patriots will go after Kaepernick's experience - ESPN Boston

Nice discussion of how Aldon Smith sometimes piggybacks behind Justin Smith. Gets back to the whole Kevin Gilbride "Justin Smith gets away with murder" discussion prior to the Giants game last October (grabbing hold of offensive linemens' jerseys and getting his hands inside and twisting, keeping them from freeing up, and allowing Aldon Smith a free route to the QB). Sounds from Tedy's discussion like it's a pretty commonplace practice, just taken to an art form. Unlike Gilbride, Tedy's not *****ing about it - sounds like he respects and even admires it, under the "use anything you can get away with" principle.
 
he'll have to do it against mankins...mankins is fresh.....in fact, it's going to be the smiths against solder and mankins.........have the smiths faced anything even close to that? the smiths should be a little concerned about these 2 exerting their will on them.

I assume that there will be TE help from Hoomanamanui, probably on the left side. Try to close of that open hole to the QB if it does get created. I also wuld expect to see some of Danny Woodhead is TB's "personal pass protector" when he's operating out of the shotgun. Not that Woodhead would slow down the likes of Aldon Smith for more than a few tenths of a second, but Brady doesn't need very long to get rid of the ball, and every little bit helps.
 
Kind of surprised to visit this forum and not see the kind of overconfident boasting that is so typical of NFL fans.

Just a few observations. Firstly, I really have not watched the Patriots play since the superbowl, but I did look up their stats a bit.

1. Patriots have a good run defense but a terrible pass defense (this is based on stats). I don't know about Kaepernick, but when Smith played teams with terrible pass defenses, he often looked like Tom Brady or Drew Brees even though he often struggled against teams with good pass defenses. Kaepernick is a different quarterback, and he has not put up a lot of points through the air except against Chicago, but we have the receivers and the play calling to put up a lot of points if we can move the ball through the air. Of course, Kaepernick is still inexperienced and he does not move the ball as consistently as Smith, who was leading the league in most yards per pass attempt last time I checked.

If it were Smith starting, I would say that the Patriots might have a very bad day on preventing the pass, but with Kaepernick, it becomes more unpredictable. He had one of the strongest arms in the NFL, so he can move the ball 50 yards down field through the air, but we tend toward conservative play calling, so he probably will not try that too many times.

2. Kaepernick is one of the most Athletic quarterbacks in the league right now. If you put pressure on him, he is liable to burn you on the run. If he gets into the backfield, there may be nobody that can catch him, and we have one of the best offensive lines to make that happen. He also makes a lot of mistakes, doesn't seem to understand the plays as well as Smith, so that could be a liability if you confuse him.

3. We play very aggressively and get a lot of penalties. Sometimes they cost us big.

4. Our guys are good enough that they can pressure the quarterback while keeping most of our defenders in the back field to prevent the long pass. Someone as good as Brady might be able to get the short passes off without too much of a problem; however, when we get ahead by a couple of scores, we start really bringing the pressure.

If the Patriots can keep the game within seven points, that gives Brady more times to make plays happen. If we get ahead by 10 or more points, the pressure on the quarterback often becomes so relentless that the passing game is almost destroyed, because that is when we start the serious blitzing.

5. Last year we stopped the run dead, but had problems on the long pass. This year, we have compromised to hold Willis back and let the rusher or the short receiver get a few yards before being pummeled.

6. If Brady tries to force passes or throws long, we will probably make him pay with turnovers. Our guys are one of the best at reading the offense and getting in position to make an interception.

7. Talk to the NY Giants. They are the only team that has soundly beat us since Harbaugh took over. I don't know whether it was a fluke or they really have our number, but clearly whatever they did worked.


Obviously, these are two of the best teams in the NFL facing each other. It is hard to predict what will happen. I suspect that it is probably cold in Boston this time of year and may even be snow season already, which combined with jet lag probably gives the Patriots a significant advantage, but on a neutral field, I would choose the 49ers.

Of course, Brady is going to retire some day soon and join the likes of Montana and Young, so even when his team is outmatched, he is an extremely dangerous opponent and even a three touchdown lead with a smash-mouth defense against him is not a guarantee of a victory.

The Patriots are just the sort of team that we built to beat, but also the sort of team that makes it almost impossible to get enough of a lead to put the game away, so it might be the best and toughest game we have played since Green Bay at the beginning of the season.

Obviously, the keys to the game:

1. Can the Patriots defense stop the 49ers? The numbers say "no", but worse defenses have slowed us down this year, and we are not used to playing in the cold.

2. Can the 49ers force turnovers? The numbers say that if they get ahead and force Brady to throw down the field, we probably can. The key for New England is to not be more than one drive behind in the score.

3. Can the 49ers sack? Hard to believe that we will come out of the game without at least one or two sacks, but if we fail to get far enough ahead in the beginning or have to come from behind, that cuts Brady a lot of slack.

4. Will our second year QB make a lot of stupid mistakes? Will we commit a lot of penalties? This could decide a close game.

5. Will our kicker come through. Last year, he was the best in the league. This year, he has missed every single 50 yard + goal except the record setting 63 yarder he made against Green Bay.

I wish it were a home game so I could watch it in person, c'est la vie. See you on Sunday.
 
couple of points....

- the pats defense has improved during the course of the season.......it also leads the league in causing turnovers

- the pats just slapped around a pretty good offense in the texans.

- when it comes to the 2012 9ers, stop the running game, stop the niners......just look at the MN and NYG games

- the pats aren't that great with pass pressure so they may just make kaepernick play from the pocket

- the niners don't cause that many turnovers.....brady is not jason campbell the the pats OL is not the bears

- if the 9ers fall behind, it's prety much over.......the pats made arian foster a non-factor, they can do it to gore......if that happens, it can get ugly fast as the pats have no porblem piling it on



Kind of surprised to visit this forum and not see the kind of overconfident boasting that is so typical of NFL fans.

Just a few observations. Firstly, I really have not watched the Patriots play since the superbowl, but I did look up their stats a bit.

1. Patriots have a good run defense but a terrible pass defense (this is based on stats). I don't know about Kaepernick, but when Smith played teams with terrible pass defenses, he often looked like Tom Brady or Drew Brees even though he often struggled against teams with good pass defenses. Kaepernick is a different quarterback, and he has not put up a lot of points through the air except against Chicago, but we have the receivers and the play calling to put up a lot of points if we can move the ball through the air. Of course, Kaepernick is still inexperienced and he does not move the ball as consistently as Smith, who was leading the league in most yards per pass attempt last time I checked.

If it were Smith starting, I would say that the Patriots might have a very bad day on preventing the pass, but with Kaepernick, it becomes more unpredictable. He had one of the strongest arms in the NFL, so he can move the ball 50 yards down field through the air, but we tend toward conservative play calling, so he probably will not try that too many times.

2. Kaepernick is one of the most Athletic quarterbacks in the league right now. If you put pressure on him, he is liable to burn you on the run. If he gets into the backfield, there may be nobody that can catch him, and we have one of the best offensive lines to make that happen. He also makes a lot of mistakes, doesn't seem to understand the plays as well as Smith, so that could be a liability if you confuse him.

3. We play very aggressively and get a lot of penalties. Sometimes they cost us big.

4. Our guys are good enough that they can pressure the quarterback while keeping most of our defenders in the back field to prevent the long pass. Someone as good as Brady might be able to get the short passes off without too much of a problem; however, when we get ahead by a couple of scores, we start really bringing the pressure.

If the Patriots can keep the game within seven points, that gives Brady more times to make plays happen. If we get ahead by 10 or more points, the pressure on the quarterback often becomes so relentless that the passing game is almost destroyed, because that is when we start the serious blitzing.

5. Last year we stopped the run dead, but had problems on the long pass. This year, we have compromised to hold Willis back and let the rusher or the short receiver get a few yards before being pummeled.

6. If Brady tries to force passes or throws long, we will probably make him pay with turnovers. Our guys are one of the best at reading the offense and getting in position to make an interception.

7. Talk to the NY Giants. They are the only team that has soundly beat us since Harbaugh took over. I don't know whether it was a fluke or they really have our number, but clearly whatever they did worked.


Obviously, these are two of the best teams in the NFL facing each other. It is hard to predict what will happen. I suspect that it is probably cold in Boston this time of year and may even be snow season already, which combined with jet lag probably gives the Patriots a significant advantage, but on a neutral field, I would choose the 49ers.

Of course, Brady is going to retire some day soon and join the likes of Montana and Young, so even when his team is outmatched, he is an extremely dangerous opponent and even a three touchdown lead with a smash-mouth defense against him is not a guarantee of a victory.

The Patriots are just the sort of team that we built to beat, but also the sort of team that makes it almost impossible to get enough of a lead to put the game away, so it might be the best and toughest game we have played since Green Bay at the beginning of the season.

Obviously, the keys to the game:

1. Can the Patriots defense stop the 49ers? The numbers say "no", but worse defenses have slowed us down this year, and we are not used to playing in the cold.

2. Can the 49ers force turnovers? The numbers say that if they get ahead and force Brady to throw down the field, we probably can. The key for New England is to not be more than one drive behind in the score.

3. Can the 49ers sack? Hard to believe that we will come out of the game without at least one or two sacks, but if we fail to get far enough ahead in the beginning or have to come from behind, that cuts Brady a lot of slack.

4. Will our second year QB make a lot of stupid mistakes? Will we commit a lot of penalties? This could decide a close game.

5. Will our kicker come through. Last year, he was the best in the league. This year, he has missed every single 50 yard + goal except the record setting 63 yarder he made against Green Bay.

I wish it were a home game so I could watch it in person, c'est la vie. See you on Sunday.
 
I think the Niners will try to establish the run and then take their shots downfield like the Seahags did. They have the downfield threats and a few PI calls is all they need. Our improved secondary will be tested. Their D will play well and keep it close. You can't expect CK to out duel Brady. If the Pats can open up a close game in the 2nd half then the young QB will struggle.

I am terrified of 20 yard scrambles and 30 yard BS PI calls.
 
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@CandlestickBum The Patriots pass D has been a lot better since we got Talib. For your keys to the game: 1. I think the Patriots D can slow them down for sure after how they did against the Texans balanced offense. 2. I don't think there are numbers to support that since the Pats have a league low 10 turnovers and the 49ers opposing rushers haven't lost a fumble in their past 249 carries or intercepted a pass in their last 2 games. 3. I think there will be at least 1 sack. 4. This is something I think will be a big factor. Wasted timeouts and forced into mistakes. 5. Our kicker has been missing a lot too.
 
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