Bill Simmons : Pats never a dynasty.

Over the past three seasons, the beautiful thing about the Patriots wasn't how they kept winning, but how their fans remained absolutely convinced they would win. No matter what the circumstances, no matter how many injuries piled up, we believed Belichick would unearth the perfect plan, Brady would come through, and so would Willie, Brown, Vinatieri and everyone else. The reason we believed this was because it kept happening. In other words, they gave us no reason not to believe it.

More important, they believed it, and carried themselves like they did ... right up until the Broncos game, when their swaggerability disappeared into thin air. I find this infinitely more depressing than the thought of losing a dynasty that didn't really exist in the first place. Even if the Patriots win easily and often again next season, there will always be a small part of me that wonders if the wheels might come off. It happened in Denver, which means it could happen again.

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T-ShirtDynasty said:

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This is sort of old news. Bill has officially jumped the shark. The column is loaded with hysteria and the typical media blindness to the overall big picture.

1- It is absolutely a dynasty by the modern definition of the word. Comparing it Bill Russell and the Celtics, a different sport and different era, is ludicrous.

2-The only way to tell if a dynasty is over is to look back on it years from now. The end of the Cowboys came when they lost to Carolina in the playoffs in 1996. The end of this dynasty may be the Denver loss, but more likely, it is some moment down the road that we won't know was the actual moment it all ended until we have several years to reflect AFTER that point.

Maybe Bill should go back to writing for Jimmy Kimmel. As a loyal reader, his rep took a big hit with this POS column.

the wheels WILL come off...sometime

T-ShirtDynasty said:

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never a dynasty to begin with? ok. who started that b.s. anyway? what do i care what name is put on it by other people? see, the media get so friggin' caught up in WORDS. because that's what they produce. just like the jerk-offs in DC.
what matters is the CHAMPIONSHIPS, not the label.
isimmons may be right about the swagger. ever since mid-season 2001, when our squad started out-hitting and out-scheming other teams, i believed they were gonna win every game. patriot teams started adjusting to what the opposition did, not only from half to half, but from series to series. magic going on on those sidelines.
so yeah, i expected us to win every game. the best part was that even if the other team was supposed to be better, they Could Not Deal With The Patriots On The Field. we'd just beat them up until the opponents broke. you could see it in the 3rd quarter of most games. teams decided that no matter what they ran, patriots were going to stuff it.
maybe we'll get that back again. would be nice. but 3 solid years of it haeen an absolute joy.
somebody called the "massive, tough and hitters" in print one day. never thought i'd see OUR TEAM described like that

That column is just plain ridiculous... besides his logic being incredibly stupid, I don't know anybody who has the gall to call themselves a Patriots fan and claim they're not a dynasty (even the TROLLS admit it - they just claim it's over).

What the hell is "swaggerability"? He seems to forget that halfway through this season we sucked fairly bad. Did we still have "swaggerability" then? If so, why?? If not, I thought it was impossible to get back once lost.

I don't know how he (or any reasonable person) considers out loss to Denver the end of a dynasty. Yeah, we bounced out of the playoffs, but we bounced ourselves out (more specifically, the 3 or 4 crucial turnovers did). As far as I'm concerned we could've taken it this year if not for a bad game, and we can do the same next.

You guys totally missed the point. He's not saying that they won't win again. He's simply saying that, from now on, we will have doubt where we were once sure that they would pull out a tough game. They lost the aura of perfection and invincibility that had surrounded them like a shield for the last 2 years. I agree with him that we will unlikely ever get it back. From now on we are just another team made up of fallible humans - but as long as the coaching is strong and we surround Brady with talent, we could very well win several more.

I agree with that to a certain extent. Look at who failed in that game: Brady... Brown... Vinatieri... even McGinest when he bit on that play-fake... those are as core as it gets. You can't say you have 100% confidence in them when they hit the playoffs now, because they proved they aren't 100% locks.

But who is? Montana had 4 rings... in his WHOLE 15-YEAR CAREER. Are you telling me SF wasn't a dynasty? Or Joe wasn't a clutch player? Please.

Well, since I never walked around with that "swagger", I guess I am immune from whatever the heck he is talking about in his article.

I like Bill Simmons, but only because he uses pop culture in a way that often makes me laugh. However, I find him no more knowledgeable than other sportswriters out there....only more amusing to read.

Some will argue the dynasty thing because a true dynasty should go one for much longer. I guess then there are no true NFL dynasties. I suppose if we had internet access and hysterical sportswriters in the 70s, the fact that the Steelers "only" won 4 in 6 years and not 6 in a row would have been cause for alarm, especially in those years where they failed to win the SB. Now, of course, we have the benefit of hindsight, and of course we would call them a dynasty. Same with the 49ers being of the team of the 80s. And the Cowboys a team of 90s.

I am actually quite surprised and annoyed by his tone in that excerpt. I agree he is being reactionary and slightly hysterical. I doubt he will receive tons of loving emails...whether from annoyed Pats fans or the "Oh, come ON!" fans of other teams.

If you compare any dynasty to the Celtics then there are no dynasties period. To win 11 championships in 13 years is not to be matched in any pro sports. Pro Football does not work itself to those type of dormants anyway, too many injuries and now free agency works against any of that type of winning. In football terms it was a dynasty.

Pats Fanatic said:

If you compare any dynasty to the Celtics then there are no dynasties period. To win 11 championships in 13 years is not to be matched in any pro sports. Pro Football does not work itself to those type of dormants anyway, too many injuries and now free agency works against any of that type of winning. In football terms it was a dynasty.

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Yeah, what you said. Also, I'd like to say it could STILL BE. What is they won it all next year? 4 in 6 years? It could still be going on. Writing the obituary after one playoff loss is reactionary and hysterical, IMO.

oldrover said:

I agree with that to a certain extent. Look at who failed in that game: Brady... Brown... Vinatieri... even McGinest when he bit on that play-fake... those are as core as it gets. You can't say you have 100% confidence in them when they hit the playoffs now, because they proved they aren't 100% locks.

But who is? Montana had 4 rings... in his WHOLE 15-YEAR CAREER. Are you telling me SF wasn't a dynasty? Or Joe wasn't a clutch player? Please.

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Speaking of Montana, his teams lost playoff games to the Giants, Giants again, and Minnesota, by scores of 17 - 3, 49 - 3, and 36 - 24, in between his first two and last two super bowl victories. In Simmons terms, maybe the "swagger" was gone from Joe for a while, but it didn't stop him.

Fanfrom1960 said:

Speaking of Montana, his teams lost playoff games to the Giants, Giants again, and Minnesota, by scores of 17 - 3, 49 - 3, and 36 - 24, in between his first two and last two super bowl victories. In Simmons terms, maybe the "swagger" was gone from Joe for a while, but it didn't stop him.

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Oooh, sounds like you need to fire off an email to Mr. Simmons there!

These writers are like trolls. The more you pay attention to them the worst they are.

I have a perfect sign I've tried to post on here but can't get it on. It's a picture of a bull dropping **** with the international sign for stop.

That sums up what I think of most of these media people.

Fanfrom1960 said:

Speaking of Montana, his teams lost playoff games to the Giants, Giants again, and Minnesota, by scores of 17 - 3, 49 - 3, and 36 - 24, in between his first two and last two super bowl victories. In Simmons terms, maybe the "swagger" was gone from Joe for a while, but it didn't stop him.

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Agree 100 % plus people forget that in that Minnesota game he was taken out because of how badly he played.

I'm really not concerned about what others think.

Three out of four SB titles ain't bad.

Winning another next year will shut them up.

Incidentally, BB hates the term "swagger". Anyone who has ever read Patriot Reign knows that. I don't think Simmons has read Patriot Reign.

What happened to you Bill Simmons????

It is amazing to see how far Simmons has strayed from his terrific article going back to when the Patriots won their first Championship.

To me it is indeed all about winning it all, while our continuing dynasty is not like the Celtics greatest of all dynasties, three out of five and headed for more ain't bad at all.

Screw you Bill Simmons, you have lost your way - I love these Patriots, they are an awesome organization from top to bottom and we are lucky to have them.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020204



By Bill Simmons
Page 2 columnist


NEW ORLEANS (Monday, 5 a.m. CT) -- Now it all makes sense.


You bleed for your team, you follow them through thick and thin, you monitor every free-agent signing, you immerse yourself in Draft Day, you purchase the jerseys and caps, you plan your Sundays around the games ... and there's a little rainbow waiting at the end. You can't see it, but you know it's there. It's there. It has to be there. So you believe.

Of course, there's one catch: You might never get there. Every fan's worst fear. All that energy over the years just getting displaced, no release, no satisfaction, nothing. Season after season, no championship ... and then you die. I mean, isn't that what this is all about? Isn't that the nagging fear? That those little moral victories over the years won't make up for that big payoff at the end -- that one moment when everything comes together, when your team keeps winning, when you keep getting the breaks and you just can't lose.

And if none of this makes sense, well ... it does to me. My team just won the Super Bowl. Patriots 20, Rams 17. .........................

Bella*chick said:

Oooh, sounds like you need to fire off an email to Mr. Simmons there!

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Nah, get myself all worked up for nothing. I'd rather write into here. We know what we have in the Patriots, whatever some of these clowns say.

Pats Fanatic said:

If you compare any dynasty to the Celtics then there are no dynasties period. To win 11 championships in 13 years is not to be matched in any pro sports. Pro Football does not work itself to those type of dormants anyway, too many injuries and now free agency works against any of that type of winning. In football terms it was a dynasty.

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All's we have to do is win 8 more to be in that group... Seriously though while this is not the way anyone wanted it to end you can bet to a man that this team will grow from this!

SoonerPatriot said:

This is sort of old news. Bill has officially jumped the shark. The column is loaded with hysteria and the typical media blindness to the overall big picture.

1- It is absolutely a dynasty by the modern definition of the word. Comparing it Bill Russell and the Celtics, a different sport and different era, is ludicrous.

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It's also unoriginal. Bob Ryan said it after the Super Bowl last year. He said there were only 3 real dynasties in the history of modern professional American sports: the Russell Celtics, the Yankees, and les Canadienes. That's according to his definition of dynasty, of course.

Apparently this numbnuts has completely forgotten the entire 2002 season.