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Is BB hurting TB's chances for another ring?


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No, because i went and read most of your posts, all you do is trash the team, the coach, and other posters that don't agree with you. If you think the coach and team is that bad you wouldn't be a fan, your probably from the sqweelers, buffalo jills, or the jests.
Total bull. I'm critical of the team in areas where they deserve it...such as obviously defense where they're particularly deficient against the pass (because they can't exert a pass rush and their secondary sucks).

The Brady-led offense has been, and is still, great. Brady, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Welker, and now Lloyd are all tremendous assets to the team. My issue with the offense presently has far more to do with philosophy, game planning, and play calling - all of which have been too conservative at times (critical times) particularly relative to the constitution of the roster. In other words, I'm of the mindset that they should be predominately throwing the ball.

And yes, I'm willing to take a critical look at Belichick, which is pretty rare within Patriots nation. Frankly I believe he's overrated (as evidenced in my posts), however that doesn't mean I think he should be fired or that I'm any less of a fan than you. I want the team to win and overall I think they're good enough in enough areas to be championship competitive.
 
The obvious fatal flaw of your argument is "the quarterback of the patriots whoever he might be" is Tom Brady, arguably the greatest QB in the entire history of the NFL. No other quarterback of this Patriots franchise has ever had his team annually competitive without exception. Belichick has only been competitive (i.e. contending for a championship) as a HC with Brady as his quarterback so he has never shown he could give "whoever quarterback" a chance of winning a Super Bowl. So your comment is factually incorrect.
It is factually correct that BB contended for a championship with the Browns in the mid-nineties with Vinnie T. as QB when they defeated the Pats and Parcells in the playoffs.
 
As for my arguments being proved wrong... where did that occur? All I see is a bunch of whiny, flaccid replies. I stand by each of my seven points. Just generally speaking, with relationship to the defense of 2011-2012... would you contend that Belichick is accurately referred to as a "genius"?

maybe you should watch this program. It might help you to understand why you're wrong about BBs Cleveland days.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...5-football-life-featuring-bill-belichick.html
 
maybe you should watch this program. It might help you to understand why you're wrong about BBs Cleveland days.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...5-football-life-featuring-bill-belichick.html

I watched the special, in the end, it made think more about this actually, because I watched Felger & Mazz radio show where they mentioned that 3 out of the 4 previous years before Belichick went to the Pats, there records were:

9-6-1
10-6
12-4

They went 3-13 before Belichick came, and with Belichick:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11

So as you see, the Cleveland '95 special kind of left out some stats.
 
I watched the special, in the end, it made think more about this actually, because I watched Felger & Mazz radio show
LOL, listening (watching?) to Felger & Mazz may be your first mistake. They are entertainers, not dispensers of any genuine, worthwhile sports information. I will say that Felger is a brilliant business person in his ability to perfect his contrarian persona, pushing people's buttons in order to get his audience to pay attention and respond. Mazz is a sad replica: a Felger wannabe that does not have that same talent, and has about as much sports knowledge as your average Tibetan monk.


where they mentioned that 3 out of the 4 previous years
Hmm, I wonder why they decided to use '3 out of 4' years; why not the three previous years, or the four previous years? Maybe because it didn't fit their agenda?

Here's a novel concept: research a topic with an open mind. No, it's a lot easier to form an opinion and then search for stats to back them up than it is to research stats and them come to an unbiased conclusion.


before Belichick went to the Pats, there records were:

9-6-1
10-6
12-4
Actually the Pats records in the years immediately prior to his arrival were 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8; I have no idea where those numbers above come from. In 1999 the Patriots were a team on an indisputable decline. For three straight years they won fewer games than the previous year. The roster was deplete of talent from the years of Bobby Grier drafting, with input from Pete Carroll. On top of that they were in a very poor salary cap position. On that's right, according to Felger the salary cap is a myth. It took a year to get the Pats in decent cap position; during that time they did indeed go 3-13. As long as you are going to bring up the previous years then for the sake of impartiality shouldn't you also bring up the following years? You know, 2001 to 2004? :rolleyes:


They went 3-13 before Belichick came, and with Belichick:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
Let's take a closer look at those teams.


1989: last hurrah for a snakebit Browns team that made the playoffs five straight years, but kept losing to Denver ('the drive', 'the fumble', etc.).

1990: the old and over the hill team goes 3-13 with a whopping -234 point differential, the NFL's worst defense, and the NFL's 2nd worst offense. These Browns are so bad they are arguably worse than the infamous 1-15 1990 Patriots.

1991: Browns double their win total in Belichick's first year, and dramatically improve on both offense and defense to about middle of the pack in the NFL. Team finishes the season with a -5 point differential.

1992: Belichick figures out that the Browns are never going to be a championship team with fan favorite Bernie Kosar at QB. Belichick sacrifices short team success and maybe a 9-7, one and done season to make the change; Browns go 7-9 with a -3 point differential and league's #10 defense.

1993: With Vinny Testaverde at QB the Browns start out 5-2. Testaverde gets injured, they're forced to go back to Kosar and they win two games the rest of the way, finishing 7-9.

1994: Belichick dumps Kosar, who had become a distraction and had reached the point where he was ignoring play calls from the OC and running whatever he felt like. Belichick finally gets the guy he wants at QB and the Browns go 11-5, and beat Bill Parcell and the Patriots in the playoffs.

1995: Browns start out 3-1 and are considered to be one of the NFL's best teams 1/4 of the way through the season. Art Modell pulls the rug from under the team, announcing the Browns are moving at the end of the year; Cleveland wins only two more games and finishes 5-11.


The reality is that there's quite a bit more to the story than the won-loss records for those five seasons, isn't there?


So as you see, the Cleveland '95 special kind of left out some stats.

Ever hear the phrase "lies, damn lies and statistics"?

When you base everything off a very superficial scratching of the surface you also you tend to omit some vital information.
 
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You could call Samuel's drop a choke. I don't think Rodney choked though. You just can't play that ball any better. There was something, errr, supernatural, shall we say, going on there?

Yeah, Samuel failing to stay with his man until the whistle.
 
The facts of the matter are this:

1) Characterizing Belichick as "defensive genius" no longer applies. His defenses have become considerably less reliable and prone to choking.

2) The eroding defense is largely attributable to Belichick's incompetent personnel decisions (particularly the many poor DB draft picks).

3) Belichick now seems largely incapable of coaching the team to victory in close games.

4) Belichick has not represented himself well in the last several postseasons (i.e. he has been outcoached).

5) Belichick has not provided Brady with a consistent receiving core throughout his career. Many good and bad receivers have come and gone (and come back again in some cases). At times (such as 2006) the WR core was a complete joke. The "phasing out" of Wes Welker (the team's best WR) that was apparent at least in weeks 1 & 2 (until the Hernandez injury) was one of the most arrogant and stupid coaching decisions of all-time.

6) Belichick has not complemented Brady (and the passing game) with a stud running back other than Corey Dillon (and he more or less started to mail it in after the '04 season).

7) Belichick has not been as valuable as Brady to the franchise (i.e. Belichick has needed Brady more than vice versa).


1232903709_samuel%20l%20jackson%20-%20bad%20ass%20mofo.gif
 
If BB got hit by a T bus there'd be 20 NFL teams clamoring to have him on the sidelines coaching 'Weekend at Bernies" style.

Does that answer your question?.
 
This might be sacriledge but a this stage of their careers - is BB hurting Brady's chances of getting another ring?

You mean more than Brady himself? Remind me who it was that: caused a safety on the first offensive play, threw a deep pick to a crippled Gronk, and missed a wide-open Wes Welker on a game-winning play in SB XLVI? Compare this play from Week 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuCGet0bNlY

Same play (Hitch and Seam). Different throw. What do you think Wes was expecting when he got behind the coverage?

Would we be better off with a slightly younger head coach and a change of philosophy to some extent?

Based on the historically superior record that Belichick has amassed here, probably not.

Brady's getting older but his talent is just amazing and needs to get some more rings before he retires and I just don't think BB has created the best team around him for support - defense and offense. Horrible corners and no major RBs and really no star WR.

As far as the corners go, some picks don't work out. Happens to everyone. Leigh Bodden comes up with a freak injury.

As far as no major RBs, they used a first-rounder on Maroney, which didn't work out. Again, happens to everyone. I think the last two weeks speak for themselves in regards to the running game.

No star WR, eh? Riddle me this: what receiver had the most receptions in the NFL over the last three years? Who was second in the league in receiving yards last year? That's not a star?

Can we ever imagine a Pats team with Brady as QB but no BB?

I can...and I imagine that they aren't as good.
 
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Originally Posted by crawhammer
The facts of the matter are this:

1) Characterizing Belichick as "defensive genius" no longer applies. His defenses have become considerably less reliable and prone to choking.

2) The eroding defense is largely attributable to Belichick's incompetent personnel decisions (particularly the many poor DB draft picks).

3) Belichick now seems largely incapable of coaching the team to victory in close games.

4) Belichick has not represented himself well in the last several postseasons (i.e. he has been outcoached).

5) Belichick has not provided Brady with a consistent receiving core throughout his career. Many good and bad receivers have come and gone (and come back again in some cases). At times (such as 2006) the WR core was a complete joke. The "phasing out" of Wes Welker (the team's best WR) that was apparent at least in weeks 1 & 2 (until the Hernandez injury) was one of the most arrogant and stupid coaching decisions of all-time.

6) Belichick has not complemented Brady (and the passing game) with a stud running back other than Corey Dillon (and he more or less started to mail it in after the '04 season).

7) Belichick has not been as valuable as Brady to the franchise (i.e. Belichick has needed Brady more than vice versa).

second time this week I have to pull Wolfgang Pauli out of my butt....

That's not right. That's not even wrong.

PFnV
 
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