Tavon Wilson - Lightning Rod o'Controversy (Poll)

State said:

Tavon has shaved the dreadlocks.

Click to expand...

:scream:

There goes my theory!

reflexblue said:

This shows how many high round picks have been used for the Defensive backfield with poor results

T Wheatly 2nd

J Wilhight 3rd

Darious Butler 2nd.... should have gone here, but shows the difficulty this team has picking DBacks

Ras I Dowling 2nd rnd is working his way onto this list

Guss Scott..3rd rnd

Eugene Wilson 2nd rnd... had a good year once

Dexter Reid 4th rnd

Brock Williams...3rd rnd

James Sanders 2nd rnd

I think you might want to reconsider your judgment But of course you won't, you'll still try to rationalize.

Click to expand...

Wilhite and Sanders were 4th rounders.

I wouldn't really count 4th-round picks as high. Sanders was a SUCCESSFUL 4th round pick -- as, of course, was Asante Samuel.

1st round:

McCourty and Meriweather, both Pro Bowlers, although to date they're looking pretty lame as Pro Bowlers go.

2nd round:

Eugene Wilson, Chung, Butler, Wheatley, Dowling -- kind of meh overall.

3rd round:

Hobbs & 2 injury washouts -- kind of meh.

4th round:

Samuel, Sanders, and some busts -- spectacularly successful

Scrap heap:

Arrington (league leader in INTs, although lame as such leaders go)
Gay

Successful

A final mock by Todd McShay in cooperation with Steve Muench and Kevin Weidl from Scouts Inc. did a seven-round exercise.

Looking at just the Big Ten players in it, Tavon Wilson is not even listed. I've looked twice. The fools.

Obviously Bill knew more than the three of them put together. Final mock drafts from McShay and Kiper - Big Ten Blog - ESPN

State said:

A final mock by Todd McShay in cooperation with Steve Muench and Kevin Weidl from Scouts Inc. did a seven-round exercise.

Looking at just the Big Ten players in it, Tavon Wilson is not even listed. I've looked twice. The fools.

Obviously Bill knew more than the three of them put together. Final mock drafts from McShay and Kiper - Big Ten Blog - ESPN

Click to expand...

The Patriots have a whole scouting department dedicated to finding players, I am not sure what resources these draftnicks get, but I doubt they are even near comparable.

There is no way Bill Belichick knows more than Todd McShay and those other two people you mentioned. NO WAY.

State said:

A final mock by Todd McShay in cooperation with Steve Muench and Kevin Weidl from Scouts Inc. did a seven-round exercise.

Looking at just the Big Ten players in it, Tavon Wilson is not even listed. I've looked twice. The fools.

Obviously Bill knew more than the three of them put together. Final mock drafts from McShay and Kiper - Big Ten Blog - ESPN

Click to expand...

Finally you see the light...

There is a reason Bellichick and Caserio and Robinson are on an NFL payroll while those pundits work for ESPN and Scouts Inc... They've never built a team that wins a damn thing let alone one that competes in Superbowls half the time...

On the other hand they're probably awesome fantasy GM's. :woohoo: :bricks:

KDPPatsfan85 said:

Poor coverage skills and tackling technique hmmmmm....

Tavon Wilson to the Patriots - YouTube

Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the link. After all I'd heard, I'm surprised the guy can put on cleats without tying his feet together, let alone make plays.

Seems to have some sound fundamentals, nice tackling and an eye for the loose ball that really would have helped in that last game of this past season. After all I've read this morning in the national media — the mocking tone of the criticism — I'm really rooting for the guy (even more than I would just because he's a Patriot).

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

MoLewisrocks said:

Finally you see the light...

There is a reason Bellichick and Caserio and Robinson are on an NFL payroll while those pundits work for ESPN and Scouts Inc... They've never built a team that wins a damn thing let alone one that competes in Superbowls half the time...

On the other hand they're probably awesome fantasy GM's. :woohoo: :bricks:

Click to expand...

Tell you what MO, if any other team pulled this move everybody here would be laughing and posting how incompetent they're front office was. One of the main reasons for losing the SB was the poor play of a collection of scrap heap DB's. i think maybe its time for this FO to reevaluate how they grade DB's. They're history of drafting isn't exactly stellar, and neither have the FA signings. The reason BB can get away with this for the most part is hes such a great coach, and has such a great staff they've been able to coach these players up. As has been noted here many times when a player moves to another team from the patriots they're never play as well thats because they sucked to begin with. BB can make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. But that only goes so far.

Blackluck said:

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

Click to expand...

A lot of good stuff in this post...

How about a Mankins comparison? The draft guys were like, "who?" and Mel Kiper was falling over himself to not say that this was a big reach by BB, even though "the consensus" had him more like a third rounder.

Here's the problem with the consensus: if the consensus says someone is a fith rounder, but 3 other teams have the guy much higher, you could lose him even though you really like him. So I'd say go for it if you really really like the guy. Fortunately for BB, he has enough respect that he can do things others might not be able to do as easily.

We'll see in September.

That video of Ebert against Illinois did not look so good, although I could not tell if it was Wilson all the time getting beat. On the post, it looked like the safety might have pulled a Polamalu and left his CB out to dry the way Wilson was playing the outside route.

I see T. Wilson as a similar player to McCourty, Ras-I in build, not afraid to tackle like a Butler, Wheatly,

With my own limited viewing I see a player that can tackle, has decent speed and is flexible. Been a starter for 3 years, I like it when the Pats pick players by production rather than projection, which I think is true in this case.

And the Pats do their own scouting and do not rely on the national scout services, only use the sevices for weights, etc. There should be some surprises. Kinda fun that way.

I think the "own conclusions" are based upon a foundation of periodicals, I'd rather trust my own eyes.

I do wonder what the coaching staff thinks of Chung though.

Blackluck said:

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

Click to expand...

Belichick has had enough bad DB picks over the last few years that I'm reluctant to give him the benefit of doubt on the Wilson pick. But, when you look at Wilson's resume (3 yr starter for BCS Conference team , team captain with solid size and speed measurables), my opinion is it looks more like the 2nd round pick the Patriots made him than the UDFA the "draft experts" made him.

This is such a subjective process powered by hype. Kids actually do slip through the cracks which is why it is likely that a Pro-Bowler or two will emerge from this year's UDFA class.

Blackluck said:

To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

Click to expand...

I agree. However, one can assert that the media dropped the ball on this kid considering BB took him in the 2nd, and 7 teams had visits with the him. When you look at the number of kids coming out of so many schools, it's not hard to imagine that some good ones slip through the cracks. I think the kid shows promise and is a versatile, BB type of player. Time will tell.

sg14 said:

I do wonder what the coaching staff thinks of Chung though.

Click to expand...

The must think that he is pretty versatile given the wide range of responsibilities they have given him.

Slappy said:

I agree. However, one can assert that the media dropped the ball on this kid considering BB took him in the 2nd, and 7 teams had visits with the him. When you look at the number of kids coming out of so many schools, it's not hard to imagine that some good ones slip through the cracks. I think the kid shows promise and is a versatile, BB type of player. Time will tell.

Click to expand...

Not only did he slip through the cracks in the draft process but he slipped through the cracks in his own conference. He wasn't even considered an All American on any team in the Big 10 (can you even name the other B10 safeties? The only one I recall getting drafted is Trenton Robinson in the 5th/6th). Bill out thought himself on this one. Speculation that another team was going to take him is just that, speculation.

Sciz said:

Two other AFC teams, believed to be the Chargers and Texans, had a second round grade on him. The Chargers had the pick directly after the Pats picked him. Try again.

Click to expand...

Here's the thing Sciz. Its not about the player its about the slot. Clearly Bill liked the kid based on his own evaluations enough to think he was the 3rd best S in the draft. And its also clear that Bill, at least, thought there might be other teams who agreed with him, and who would grab him before his next pick.

My question is, SO WHAT?. Even if you assume that SD would have picked him. Even if you assume that he's a good enough player to eventually become a starter. What I'm trying to figure out is what about this kid makes him THAT much better than the half dozen other safety prospects that would have been there at 62 who had measurables and production at LEAST as good as Wilson,and some much better.

I'm sure it wouldn't have been the first time someone grabbed a player BB was targeting. I keep thinking that if he had taken the risk, he MIGHT have been rewarded. But even if SD DID pick him, its not exactly the end of the world. Its not exactly like Wilson is the kind of player that projects to one you just HAVE to have.

Its always risk vs reward. The risk was a player who, at best, could be clumped in with a number of other guys that might get scouped, and the reward might have a decent DE/DT prospect (ie Reyes) or at least a much better trade value than the one they got from GB and STILL walk away with a decent DB prospect

EXPECTATIONS: at this slot BB HAS to project this kid as a future starter by his 2nd year. Given what we know right now, that outcome would be surprising. BUT I surely hope it will happen.

Blackluck said:

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

Click to expand...

I haven't seen anybody assert (smugly or otherwise) that because Belichick drafted him it was a great pick.

The smug assertion is that from posters who claim they have any clue where the other 31 teams had him ranked on their board. They don't, but Belichick probably did.

Blackluck said:

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

Click to expand...

Bill Belichick has found more talent in the draft that most that are currently in the league. Sure he has made numerous mistakes, but when looking at some of the so called "better drafters" in the league (i.e. Baltimore, Pittsburgh) they have made just as many mistakes while not finding as much talent as Bill.

Therefore, if you "think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation."

I think is is fair based on history of Bill's overall ability to find talent, and plenty in the defensive backfield, to believe Bill Belichick made the correct pick with the 48th pick and Tavon Wilson will be a good player for us for years to come.

Blackluck said:

The disappointment with the Wilson pick doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the media ('draft experts') have to say.

It's about arriving at ones own conclusions based off a variety of reasons. To (smugly) assert that because Belichick drafted him it must be a great pick misses the point entirely.

Click to expand...

No one has said this. Its quite the opposite.
No one is saying its great because BB made it. Many are saying it sucks because of scouting reports they read, and some are saying based upon the track record of the man who made the pick, don't be so quick to judge.

You are taking a statement such as: I have been driving for 30 years, have never had an accident, have driven in all conditions, taken excessive training, and teach driving to others, so if the conditions are not great, I am confident in my abilty to drive safely, and turning it into I guarantee you there is no way I could ever get in an accident no matter what.

You don't get to be an almost historically bad pass defense as we were last year without making major mistakes in the draft process, and by all appearances the team seems to have made the very same mistake again this year.

Click to expand...

What if 2 of your top 3 corners are injured, you also have 2 of last years top 3 safeties show up for camp and disappoint you with their performance to the point you cut them, one of their replacements is injured and you end up with WRs and street free agents playing in your secondary?
What does that have to do with evaluating a S for a 2nd round draft pick?

I understand that the draft isn't an exercise in making mathematical proofs; it's quite obviously a subjective process and you make the best decision you can based on the available information. But I think it's fair based on history at this position and the state of our defense to question that taking Mr. Wilson with the 48th pick is the best player this team could have taken given the situation.

Click to expand...

But you are basing this on a cursory attempt to assess the player when the Patriots did anexhaustive investigation into assessing him.
Surely you would agree that they have a substantially greater amount of information to make the decision with, and as professionals I would imagine you agree they are better equipped to assess the information than you are.

In other words if your assessment is the player sucks, and the Patriots assessment is he is worthy of that pick, they are much more likely to be correct based on more data and better knowledge to use that data in an assessment.
Now 2nd round picks may be 50/50 in terms of being good contributors over a period of time, so of course it is no exact science. But I think there is no quesiton that Bill Belichicks guess at who the best pick at 48 is would be a lot better than yours. That doesn't mean he is right, or you are wrong, but your method of reaching that conclusion is dramatically flawed.