The 2012 Combine Thread

McCourty Island · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:
He wouldn't even play.

Just saw Hill cure cancer in 4.36 seconds.

You're bringing a lot to the table here.

Deus Irae · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:
He wouldn't even play.

Just saw Hill cure cancer in 4.36 seconds.

He'd be the WR1 to Welker's WR2

patsderoer · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Deus Irae said:
That same FA can be used to bring in a TE3, as can a lower round draft pick.

A Gronk 2.0 with the same size and great hands, and a similar match-up nightmare for other defences? Yeah, the FA and lower draft rounds are loaded with them.

Deus Irae said:
This is true of pretty much every team at pretty much every position. It's a rarity when teams can remain stacked with both high end starters, and high end starters as backups, at any one position for any real period of time. Welcome to the salary cap era!

Maybe its a rarity, but if you can stack-up a vital position for the team, why not do it? Even in this salary cap era.

Deus Irae said:
Using the logic that you, and others, have put forth, teams like the Saints, Patriots, Giants, Chargers, Rams, Lions, etc... should be trying to trade up to #1 overall so that they can draft Luck and run a QBBC system, especially since a QB could get injured.

Apples to oranges.
A QB is heavily protected on the field, by 5(or more) massive men, rules and refs. TEs, not so much.

Deus Irae said:
Instead of trying to force Fleener into a WR position, the team could draft a quality WR prospect. That makes much more sense.

What makes more sense is having a quality back-up at a vital position for the offense. It makes even more sense when we consider the long line of WR draft busts who couldn't produce in the Pats system. It makes even more sense when we all saw what happened in the SB, and at the end of Ravens game, when one of the TEs went down. It makes more sense considering that Gronk will be coming off after an ankle injury, and opposing defenders will be gunning for his ankle.

I see that you dont want to adress the issue of running into the ground both Gronk and AH with no one to back them up without any drop in quality.

Fleener backs up not 1, but 2 starters on the Pats offense. In the redzone, he would be another match-up nightmare for the other defenses.
I would take him before any WR or other TE in this draft.

Deus Irae · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

patsderoer said:
A Gronk 2.0 with the same size and great hands, and a similar match-up nightmare for other defences? Yeah, the FA and lower draft rounds are loaded with them.

No, a TE. It's as unlikely that Fleener is Gronk 2.0 as it is that any particular receiver is Megatron 2.0.

patsderoer said:
Maybe its a rarity, but if you can stack-up a vital position for the team, why not do it? Even in this salary cap era.

Because doing it at the expense of significant needs is stupid.

patsderoer said:
Apples to oranges.
A QB is heavily protected on the field, by 5(or more) massive men, rules and refs. TEs, not so much.

QBs go down all the time. It's not apples to oranges at all.

patsderoer said:
What makes more sense is having a quality back-up at a vital position for the offense. It makes even more sense when we consider the long line of WR draft busts who couldn't produce in the Pats system. It makes even more sense when we all saw what happened in the SB, and at the end of Ravens game, when one of the TEs went down. It makes more sense considering that Gronk will be coming off after an ankle injury, and opposing defenders will be gunning for his ankle.

I'm sorry, but that's just a load of crap. The team's "long line of WR draft busts" is no different than the team's "long line of TE busts" prior to the Gronk/Hernandez draft.

And it makes more sense getting WRs, OLBs, DLs and DBs because they actually need players at those positions, even as starters.

patsderoer said:
I see that you dont want to adress the issue of running into the ground both Gronk and AH with no one to back them up without any drop in quality.

Fleener backs up not 1, but 2 starters on the Pats offense. In the redzone, he would be another match-up nightmare for the other defenses.

Why would I address such an obvious red herring? The 'running into the ground" is nothing but that. After all, Welker took the 2nd highest amount of offensive snaps, and Branch was 4th, taking just 1% fewer snaps than Hernandez. Clearly, the "running into the ground" applies to WR as well.

patsderoer said:
I would take him before any WR or other TE in this draft.

This is excellent to know. Now I can be sure to ignore your input on anything draft related.

DaBruinz · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Fleener isn't close to being Gronk 2.0. Fleener doesn't have the blocking experience that Gronk does. Fleener is more like Hernandez than Gronk. Someone mentioned earlier that Fleener was a mix of Gronk and Hernandez, and I think that's accurate. He's got similar speed to Hernandez. Similar route running ability. But not near the physicality of Gronk.

While I toyed with the idea of Fleener, I think there is better value later in guys like Green and Igwenagu.

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

McCourty Island said:
You're bringing a lot to the table here.

So are you, McCourty Island.

Deus Irae said:
He'd be the WR1 to Welker's WR2

Based on his great success in complex, pass first offenses, right?

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

DaBruinz said:
Fleener isn't close to being Gronk 2.0. Fleener doesn't have the blocking experience that Gronk does. Fleener is more like Hernandez than Gronk. Someone mentioned earlier that Fleener was a mix of Gronk and Hernandez, and I think that's accurate. He's got similar speed to Hernandez. Similar route running ability. But not near the physicality of Gronk.

While I toyed with the idea of Fleener, I think there is better value later in guys like Green and Igwenagu.

Right, Fleener is like a much less athletic Jimmy Graham. Which make him not much like Jimmy Graham at all.

McCourty Island · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:
So are you, McCourty Island.

Agreed, because I'm not clogging threads with multiple useless posts about prospects curing cancer.

I came into the thread looking for some insight from knowledgeable posters about prospects and had to read through your nonsense.

DaBruinz · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Interesting Tidbit - Dwight Jones got reamed on his poor Post Corner route and giving up on the ball..

Deus Irae · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:
Based on his great success in complex, pass first offenses, right?

Based on his talent and the current competition.

VrabelJr · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

It took ~20 years for a guy with Gronkowski's skill set to re-emerge in the NFL. You think we can just grab another in the draft just in case Gronk goes down? LOL U CRAZY DAWG.

patsderoer · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Deus Irae said:
No, a TE. It's as unlikely that Fleener is Gronk 2.0 as it is that any particular receiver is Megatron 2.0.

Maybe he's even better than Gronk as a catching TE.

Deus Irae said:
Because doing it at the expense of significant needs is stupid.

A "back-up" who backs up 2 vital starting positions is also a significant need. Gronks injury proves it for anyone with half a brain.

Deus Irae said:
QBs go down all the time. It's not apples to oranges at all.

Apples to oranges.
QBs do their business inside their territory, heavily protected by 5 ( or more) massive men, rules and refs.
TEs do their business inside enemy territory, with defenders going for big hits, or big fat pollards trying to land with all their weight on their ankles.

Deus Irae said:
I'm sorry, but that's just a load of crap. The team's "long line of WR draft busts" is no different than the team's "long line of TE busts" prior to the Gronk/Hernandez draft.

And it makes more sense getting WRs, OLBs, DLs and DBs because they actually need players at those positions, even as starters.

Fleener Im sure could play WR, going against 6' CBs.
Hernandez could also play WR, and has a 2 year head start in the Pats system over any WR in the draft. Hernandez also proved that he could play and learn the Pats system, something which no WR in the draft has done.
There's also FA, there's also 3 other high-round picks.

Deus Irae said:
Why would I address such an obvious red herring? The 'running into the ground" is nothing but that. After all, Welker took the 2nd highest amount of offensive snaps, and Branch was 4th, taking just 1% fewer snaps than Hernandez. Clearly, the "running into the ground" applies to WR as well.

Welker and Branch had a quality backup in Edelman. Also Stinko was supposed to provide the backup quality at WR. But for catching TE, there was nothing.
And almost everyone here is screaming for quality WRs signings, while the TE position is just as vital in the Pats system as the WR position. So I am screaming for the quality TE backup signing.

Deus Irae said:
This is excellent to know. Now I can be sure to ignore your input on anything draft related.

Couldnt care less.

DaBruinz · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Best WR 3 Cone: Junior Hemingway - 6.59
Best WR Shuttle: Junior Hemingway, Eric Page - 3.98

Got this info from: 2012 NFL Combine: Weigh-In / Times | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2012 NFL Draft

VrabelJr · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Merril Hoge's Tie Knot said:
Just saw Hill do a standing triple backflip and then eat 450 buffalo wings.

Just to add, Stephen Hill ate the 450 buffalo wings mid air.

Deus Irae · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

patsderoer said:
Maybe he's even better than Gronk as a catching TE.

.... and maybe he's not, but Gronk is more than just a 'catching TE'.

patsderoer said:
A "back-up" who backs up 2 vital starting positions is also a significant need. Gronks injury proves it for anyone with half a brain.

"backup" v. "starter"..... sort of the whole point here, chief.

patsderoer said:
Apples to oranges.
QBs do their business inside their territory, heavily protected by 5 ( or more) massive men, rules and refs.
TEs do their business inside enemy territory, with defenders going for big hits, or big fat pollards trying to land with all their weight on their ankles.

Apples to apples, as fans of any teams that have seen their QB go down know. Patriots fans should know this as well as any group, after all, given what we saw in 2008. Why, had Matt Cassel been an Andrew Luck, the Patriots might have won the Super Bowl even with Brady going down.

patsderoer said:
Fleener Im sure could play WR, going against 6' CBs.
Hernandez could also play WR, and has a 2 year head start in the Pats system over any WR in the draft. Hernandez also proved that he could play and learn the Pats system, something which no WR in the draft has done.

You're not sure of anything. You're making a guess, nothing more, and it's likely a lousy one given NFL history.

patsderoer said:
There's also FA, there's also 3 other high-round picks.

There's FA for TEs, and there's more need at positions other than backup TE, so those needs should be higher priorities.

patsderoer said:
Welker and Branch had a quality backup in Edelman. Also Stinko was supposed to provide the backup quality at WR. But for catching TE, there was nothing.

So you've now chucked the idiotic "running into the ground" argument, right? I mean, since it was just a red herring and all....

patsderoer said:
And almost everyone here is screaming for quality WRs signings, while the TE position is just as vital in the Pats system as the WR position. So I am screaming for the quality TE backup signing.

No, you're screaming for using a top pick on a particular player, when there's no need for the Patriots to spend a high pick in an attempt to get a starting quality TE, but the team does need 1-2 starting quality WRs. There's a big difference.

patsderoer said:
Couldnt care less.

That must be why you jumped on my post... because you just don't care.

Warren94 · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

DaBruinz said:
Best WR 3 Cone: Junior Hemingway - 6.59
Best WR Shuttle: Junior Hemingway, Eric Page - 3.98

Got this info from: 2012 NFL Combine: Weigh-In / Times | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2012 NFL Draft

Shoulder injury and hamstring for Hemingway last year. #1 target for Robinson for the most part.

patsderoer · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Deus Irae said:
.... and maybe he's not, but Gronk is more than just a 'catching TE'.

Maybe he is ... Luck to Coby Fleener, Amazing One Handed Catch.wmv - YouTube
Pats have blocking TE, so really the need is at catching TE.

Deus Irae said:
"backup" v. "starter"..... sort of the whole point here, chief.

No chief, the point is that Gronks injury proved that the Pats need quality backup for their catching TEs.

Deus Irae said:
Apples to apples, as fans of any teams that have seen their QB go down know. Patriots fans should know this as well as any group, after all, given what we saw in 2008. Why, had Matt Cassel been an Andrew Luck, the Patriots might have won the Super Bowl even with Brady going down.

Matt Cassel was a quality back-up.
Brady going down might have costed the Pats a SB, but so did Gronk going down, chief.

Deus Irae said:
You're not sure of anything. You're making a guess, nothing more, and it's likely a lousy one given NFL history.

Watch vid above again.
Edit: And this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLdOzpVW4WE&feature=related

Deus Irae said:
There's FA for TEs, and there's more need at positions other than backup TE, so those needs should be higher priorities.

FA TEs like Fleener, with great size, and great hands, will cost big bucks.

Deus Irae said:
So you've now chucked the idiotic "running into the ground" argument, right? I mean, since it was just a red herring and all....

Whats idiotic is claiming that the argument is idiotic. Also idiotic is deducing that I somehow chucked the argument, just because I listed the WR backups the Pats had this season.

Deus Irae said:
No, you're screaming for using a top pick on a particular player, when there's no need for the Patriots to spend a high pick in an attempt to get a starting quality TE, but the team does need 1-2 starting quality WRs. There's a big difference..

The team also needs another starting quality TE.

Deus Irae said:
That must be why you jumped on my post... because you just don't care.

Why did you jump on my post? because you just ignore anything I write about the draft.

McCourty Island · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

patsderoer said:
Pats have blocking TE, so really the need is at catching TE.

The Patriots had the #1 and #4 TE in the NFL in terms of receiving yards last year. They have receiving Tight Ends already.

patsderoer · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

McCourty Island said:
The Patriots had the #1 and #4 TE in the NFL in terms of receiving yards last year.

What this proves is just how important are quality TEs for Pats system and for Brady.

McCourty Island said:
They have receiving Tight Ends already.

Gronk's injury surely proved that.

Snake Eyes · Feb 26, 2012

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

McCourty Island said:
The Patriots had the #1 and #4 TE in the NFL in terms of receiving yards last year. They have receiving Tight Ends already.

Why would you assume that Fleener is incapable of blocking?

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