The Reputation of our defense

Jackson 2 said:

Honestly, I don't give two flying f$%^$ what Willie M., Ty Law, Rodney Harrison, Tedy B., Troy Brown or anyone else says about this defense. They're all blowing smoke up someone's ***** and they're all getting paid good $$ to do so. Right now, this defense doesn't look good enough to me to win a SB. However, there is no QB in the AFC who scares me to the point where I say we couldn't beat him and his team, particularly if we play at home with a bye. Assuming we get to the SB (not a lock by any stretch), and we play GB with that defense, I'd believe we'd have a puncher's chance, at least, with Brady in a dome. If GB were to get upset somehow by SF, I'd believe we'd have a better chance. NO, now there's a team I'd be wary of. Anyway, all this wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth over this defense and our chances at this point is Chicken Little shyt. The most spoiled fanbase in America is just going to have to wait until this plays itself out. For chrissakes, is it that hard to take some simple enjoyment from 9-3 and being the current top seed in the AFC? Wow, what a crappy spot to be in with 4 weeks left. That's it, I'm off my soapbox.

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Nikolai said:

Bah dum tish!

Also, it's easier to amass talent in the earlier rounds when your team is drafting higher due to mediocre/subpar seasons as the Pats had for a couple years before the SB run.

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IllegalContact said:

did I miss something or was the defense at the beginning of the season every bit as bad as the one who played the colts?

this point.........is pointless

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Also, please note the post above.

patsfans.com is being overrun by the village idiots. This guy is the current poster child.

Constant bombardment to complete dummy produces pathological outlooks.

Put this one on ignore (and his other cohorts). You will have the ability to develop a superior attitiude and state of mind.

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IllegalContact said:

right here, buddy.....LOL

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

He's not alone.

This thread has also helped identify the other dupes.

One clown even went as far as to link to the idiot coldhardfootballfacts article. That's stuck on stupid.

Let me think this through for you. Otherwise, you risk being stuck in the hell that is the "Illegal Contact" mentality.



It's painfully obvious that the game on Sunday was used as a test bed to evaluate personnel and scheme for the playoffs. If your IQ is north of about....6, it should be obvious.

I understand fans being peeved about the score getting that close. I'm sure Belichick was a lil' peeved.

However, peeved aside. The reality is it's better to win closer while completing playoff prep vs winning by a larger score and NOT doing any playoff prep.

Why is this true?

If your goal is to win the Lombardi, it's a good bet that Green Bay and New Orleans will be an opponent. They are both fantastic offenses. Defeating either team will require an outstanding gameplan. A great gameplan that will require perfect execution. You can never be too preparted for that scenario.

If you have an IQ north of 6, this should be automatic. For several it's not, why?

The "south of the border" intellects would have a stronger case if the this offensive "explosion" was systemic through the entire game. The painfully obvious reality is that's exactally what DIDN'T happen.

When the Colts got the ball back with 4 minutes/ 3rd quarter, they were behind 31-3 and had gained 114 yards. This prorates over a game for 4 points and about 166 yards of offense.

That's simple defensive domination.

If one actually really looked at it, the 8+ minute drive to get the Colts to ten points wasn't exactly bad because it consumed time and was followed by an INT. The real "peev" should be the 14 points over the last 6 minutes.

Likewise, another mental defect in the "south of the border" types is the complete inability to evaluate on a holistic approach.

Did you notice the village idiots complete failure to even question the multiple three and out's by the offense? Why?

The answer is simple. Rational people will use the widest available set of data and evaluate to draw conclusions.

Our village idiots do the exact opposite. They fixate on something dumb and torture the non facts to try to fit the theory.

Also, look at this game as a component in the season. Look at Miami, Week 1. Based on the now common myth. It was a "shootout". Henne had a "career day".

Now go look at reality. Go on NFL Rewind and forward to 8:48 left in the 4th quarter. Miami has the ball, are down 14 points and listen to what Gruden says. Gruden realizes that Miami has been essentially shut down.

For the next 8 minutes the Dolphins shootout 250+ yards of offense.......and lose by 14 points. That's the poster child of meaningless.

This replays against the Jets, Philadelphia, Oakland,......

Do you honestly think teams are purposely waiting until the 4th quarter and only after they are down multiple scores to start racking up hundred's of yards?

How many times does it take to get hit by a hammer to realize it hurts? How many times do ya need to touch the white hot stove to realize you get burned? Why listen to the dummies?

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robertweathers said:

Good post.

Your point about GB and NO requiring the perfect game plan has merit. IF the Pats make it to the SB, one of those two teams will be there. Either way, in my opinion the Pats will need at a minium to play nickel/dime defense 80% of the time. With that said, they will need 7-9 healthy DBs (subs, blitz packages, occasional injury, etc) that know the defense for either one of those teams to have a shot at beating them. Playing guys like Edelman, Slater and guy-off-the-couch build that required depth. Last time I checked, a player cannot be assimilated into a program and scheme and perform flawlessly.

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Yesterday was a monster disappointment.

The threads SHOULD have combined the excitement of player evaluation preseason style with the added bonus of scheme discussion and the excitement on how this works for the playoffs.

What we got was threads full of nonsense clogged up by a bunch of clowns that make eyore' look like Richard Simmons.

I also completely agree with you.

I do wonder what's up with the big nickel.

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

It's simple. You are playing a dupe.

The mediot "experts" are wrong. Why are you listening to Willie anyways?

You are dumb to listen to them.

You are dumber to even let it affect you.

Listen to patsfaninpittsburgh who tells you that there is nothing systemically to worry about.

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

He's not alone.

This thread has also helped identify the other dupes.

One clown even went as far as to link to the idiot coldhardfootballfacts article. That's stuck on stupid.

Let me think this through for you. Otherwise, you risk being stuck in the hell that is the "Illegal Contact" mentality.



It's painfully obvious that the game on Sunday was used as a test bed to evaluate personnel and scheme for the playoffs. If your IQ is north of about....6, it should be obvious.

I understand fans being peeved about the score getting that close. I'm sure Belichick was a lil' peeved.

However, peeved aside. The reality is it's better to win closer while completing playoff prep vs winning by a larger score and NOT doing any playoff prep.

Why is this true?

If your goal is to win the Lombardi, it's a good bet that Green Bay and New Orleans will be an opponent. They are both fantastic offenses. Defeating either team will require an outstanding gameplan. A great gameplan that will require perfect execution. You can never be too preparted for that scenario.

If you have an IQ north of 6, this should be automatic. For several it's not, why?

The "south of the border" intellects would have a stronger case if the this offensive "explosion" was systemic through the entire game. The painfully obvious reality is that's exactally what DIDN'T happen.

When the Colts got the ball back with 4 minutes/ 3rd quarter, they were behind 31-3 and had gained 114 yards. This prorates over a game for 4 points and about 166 yards of offense.

That's simple defensive domination.

If one actually really looked at it, the 8+ minute drive to get the Colts to ten points wasn't exactly bad because it consumed time and was followed by an INT. The real "peev" should be the 14 points over the last 6 minutes.

Likewise, another mental defect in the "south of the border" types is the complete inability to evaluate on a holistic approach.

Did you notice the village idiots complete failure to even question the multiple three and out's by the offense? Why?

The answer is simple. Rational people will use the widest available set of data and evaluate to draw conclusions.

Our village idiots do the exact opposite. They fixate on something dumb and torture the non facts to try to fit the theory.

Also, look at this game as a component in the season. Look at Miami, Week 1. Based on the now common myth. It was a "shootout". Henne had a "career day".

Now go look at reality. Go on NFL Rewind and forward to 8:48 left in the 4th quarter. Miami has the ball, are down 14 points and listen to what Gruden says. Gruden realizes that Miami has been essentially shut down.

For the next 8 minutes the Dolphins shootout 250+ yards of offense.......and lose by 14 points. That's the poster child of meaningless.

This replays against the Jets, Philadelphia, Oakland,......

Do you honestly think teams are purposely waiting until the 4th quarter and only after they are down multiple scores to start racking up hundred's of yards?

How many times does it take to get hit by a hammer to realize it hurts? How many times do ya need to touch the white hot stove to realize you get burned? Why listen to the dummies?

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robertweathers said:

Not sure the have the personnel for big nickle on this roster but I'm making the assumption that BB had Josh Barrett in mind for the role in TC. Ihedigbo might be the guy.

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ProudestRyno said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the personnel in "Big Nickle"?

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patsfaninpittsburgh said:

However, peeved aside. The reality is it's better to win closer while completing playoff prep vs winning by a larger score and NOT doing any playoff prep.

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mgteich said:

1) There is no question that the defense of one the best teams of all time is better than this year's defense. That's not the issue. The issue seems to be whether we have top draft choices playing on the defense.

2) Let's consider the defense in the miami or denver game rather than in this preseason game.

3) We should include Spikes and Chung as part of our defense.

4) If draft position is what we care about, we should note that we have more high draft choices on the defense: Warren, Brace and Cunningham.

5) The question is not whether Belichick uses high picks for the defense and finds ways to secure highly drafted players from other teams. Belichick clearly does that. The question seems to be the how effective the patriots have been in assembling talent.

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IllegalContact said:

I think the bigger issue is what the staff does with the talent once it gets here......there seems to be little progress for most if not all draft picks in terms of development. the gronks, mayos, vollmers, solders and even mccourty last year all showed up and executed immediately....did not need a shred of development to be effective. then there are all the others who over a couple of years just can't seem to get it right. and this is based on one of 2 possibilites.....1) wheatley, tate, price, crable, butler, brace, cunningham and the sort were bad picks from the get go and the problem is poor scouting 2) the scouting is actually good, but the staff can't complete the development picture that existed when the choices are made.


its one or the other......

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mgteich said:

1) There is no question that the defense of one the best teams of all time is better than this year's defense. That's not the issue. The issue seems to be whether we have top draft choices playing on the defense.

2) Let's consider the defense in the miami or denver game rather than in this preseason game.

3) We should include Spikes and Chung as part of our defense.

4) If draft position is what we care about, we should note that we have more high draft choices on the defense: Warren, Brace and Cunningham.

5) The question is not whether Belichick uses high picks for the defense and finds ways to secure highly drafted players from other teams. Belichick clearly does that. The question seems to be the how effective the patriots have been in assembling talent.

6) Should Belichick be criticized because there were only 2-3 true 3-4 ends in a draft? Or should we be celebrate that Belichick drafted and developed Deaderick. Would this be a better team if we had drafted a worse-fitting defensive lineman earlier in the same draft.

7) This is not one of the best nfl teams in the history of the nfl as we had in 2004. Whine if you want. That kind of team doesn't come around often.

8) The offense is one of the 4 best in the nfl. Teams go in cycles. We know have a top offense and a below average defense (average in points allowed).

9) The defense is in transition. This year Belichick heavily used free agency to bolster the front seven. I have ZERO complaints about the front seven. If there is a problem it is that Spikes has been injured in a season when he is a key element in a new defensive scheme. Losing your starting MLB hurts a lot.

10) Our weakness is our secondary. That is NOT a good weakness to have. Belichick's decisions with regard to the initial roster seem to have be brain-dead. We needed to enter the season with 2 more veterans in the secondary. We complain with overpaying for an average vet like Ellis. Yet, the issue is that we haven't really needed him. We could have used two players as good and experienced as Ellis in the secondary. The cap money was there. The players were available on the team (Sanders, Meriweather, Butler) and in free agency.

BOTTOM LINE

Belichick thought that Bodden, Dowling, Barrett and Brown would be key components of the secondary. Plan B was to find players hanging out at MacDonald's. There is no question. These players have played extremely well. Personally, I would rather have had a couple of more veterans on the roster. Bodden and Dowling were recovering from injuries. Barrett and Brown were totally unproven.

We are in better shape that many top teams with regard to injuries. We are one of the top 3 teams in the AFC. This is reason to celebrate. Well unless you one of those who whines and complains except for the 5 minutes after winning a Super Bowl.

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robertweathers said:

How do you explain the can't miss high draft choices that are complete busts or the players who fail in one system but are sucesses somewhere else. How about players that start off great, but fizzle out (see Eugene Wilson).

An NFL career is a fragile thing. Injuries, systems, programs, rosters, salaries can really screw with an NFL career- sometimes derail it altogether.

I truly believe that BB understands that and WILL NOT throw a rookie out onto the field unless he thinks that they can handle it professionally. Knowing the plays is a small part of a player's development.

To say that Gronk, Hernandez and others didn't need any development I don't think is accurate. What is means is that they, 'got it' and understood what it meant to be a professional. It also means that they had talent which always helps

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IllegalContact said:

I think the bigger issue is what the staff does with the talent once it gets here......there seems to be little progress for most if not all draft picks in terms of development. the gronks, mayos, vollmers, solders and even mccourty last year all showed up and executed immediately....did not need a shred of development to be effective. then there are all the others who over a couple of years just can't seem to get it right. and this is based on one of 2 possibilites.....1) wheatley, tate, price, crable, butler, brace, cunningham and the sort were bad picks from the get go and the problem is poor scouting 2) the scouting is actually good, but the staff can't complete the development picture that existed when the choices are made.


its one or the other......

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