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The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same class


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Brady's Super Bowls: 4 trips, 3 wins in 9 years (01,02,03,04,05,06,07,09,10). Not 11 years, unless you really think in 2000 or 2008 it's Brady's fault the Pats didn't make the Super Bowls those years.

Regardless, it comes down to one thing: Tebow is the greatest ever. EVER. Not even Andrew "I literally AM Jesus" Luck is as good as Tim "I love Jesus, have I told you that I love Jesus? Jesus says killing is bad, byarg!" Tebow.
BOW TO YOUR FUTURE OVERLORD!!
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Sorry it took me so long to edit the thread title.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Sorry it took me so long to edit the thread title.

So slow with the ban-hammer too LOL
:D
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

I like the IF game. IF Asante Samuel hadn't dropped an easy interception against the Giants, Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. IF the ref had called in the grasp when the Patriots had Eli Manning sacked, or on the same play, IF holding was called, Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. And IF David Tyree, who isn't even the NFL anymore I don't believe, didn't make the greatest catch in Super Bowl history, with Rodney Harrison hanging on his neck, then Brady would be 4-0 in Super Bowls. Damn IFs!
 
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Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Finally things are heating up a bit here. Here are some important points that need to be made.

First, sticking with the most recent discussion of "what if's" in the Super Bowls, what if Rashard Mendenhall doesn't fumble on the would-be go ahead drive in the 4th quarter of last year's SB? True, Ben started off slowly and they fell behind 21-3. But early in the fourth, he had brought them back to the point of being on the verse of taking the lead. *If* Mendenhall doesn't fumble there, *perhaps* we are talking about Ben and Brady being neck and neck in terms of Super Bowl rings, and we are also crediting Ben with the greatest point deficit comeback in Super Bowl history.

As for those discussing SB MVP awards - Ben could have just as easily taken the SB 43 MVP and in fact did garner some votes for it, but it went to Holmes.

Something else I'd like to point out - Brady is 4-1 against Ben in their head to head matchups. In the very first, Ben outplayed Brady and the Steelers won. Later that year in the playoffs, the Pats won with Ben getting off to a shaky start due to some rookie jitters. But does anybody remember that he recovered and nearly led the Steelers back to tie that game? It got close for while.

Likewise, does anybody remember the regular season matchup the year after that? The Steelers were actually in position to win that game late. Ben had just completed a long pass to Antwaan Randle El deep in NE territory with a few minutes to go which would have almost certainly given Pit the game, but ARE tried an ill-advise lateral to Hines Ward which was recovered by the Pat, who marched down the field and put Vinatieri in a position to kick a game winning field goal with no time left. *If* not for that bonehead play by ARE, we are talking about a 3-2 edge for Brady in the head to head matcups, with a chance for Ben to even it up this Sunday.

My point being, overall Brady hasn't been quite as "dominant" over Ben as many like to believe.

Also, pertaining to people saying this is "trolling," I'm not sure how that conclusion is reached. I am not posting repetitive, troublesome arguments all over the place. I'm simply giving facts and figures that lead to an opinion of Ben Roethlisberger being in the same class as Tom Brady. I have never said Ben is better. I admit Brady is the best. I am simply saying Ben is in his class. To give an analogy - it's similar to how Lemieux is the best, and Orr is not quite on his level, but still in the same class.

Tom Brady has won 7 hypothetical super bowls, so he still wins even in your made-up "what if Mendenhall didn't fumble?" land.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Well, there are two answers to your question. First, I don't think it's fair to say Brady is better than Ben at getting it done in "big spots." Maybe big games overall.

So, if I had to take one guy to start one must win game, I would lean toward Brady.

But if youre talking about a 2 minute drive, down by 4, starting deep in your own territory, I go with Ben. I've seen him pull off too many houdini like miracles over the years. He has a unique ability to look lousy for 3 quarters and then magically turn it on in the end finds a way to get it done.

I'll take the quarterback that looks great for 4 quarters and puts the game away early versus the one that looks lousy for 3 quarters and finds a way to "magically get it done"

Also, the only reason Ben is able to look bad for three quarters is because he has a defense that keeps them in the game. It's his own doing that causes him to have to pull off "houdini like miracles"

Did you happen to watch the Patriots/Cowboys game? How was that for "finding a way to get it done"
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

...
I will go so far as to make a guarantee that Ben will throw for at least 300 yards in this game, and if it's a shootout, he may reach 400. Mark it down! If he does this, and especially if the Steelers win, you can expect to see me back here reaping my accolades. If this does not happen, or if NE wins convincingly, don't expect to see me around here for awhile...at least until these two teams meet again, by which time hopefully everyone will have forgotten about this guarantee.

I guess that pretty much says it all...you'll come back to crow if Ben does real well but not to eat crow if he doesn't. The Opposition Posters whom I respect on this board take another approach. They might come back to talk a little trash if their team wins, but they also come back to say "we wuz whupped" when they lose.

Save yourself the trouble, by the way, and just don't come back.

See ya!
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

I'm pretty sure Roethlisberger did something Brady never did in the Super Bowl and that's throw the game winning touchdown to seal a victory in Super Bowl XLIII (also one of the best throws and catch in NFL history.) Brady dinked and dunked 5 yards and gave the keys to Adam Vinatieri to kick 50 yard field goals to win 2 Super Bowls and also had a huge kick against the Eagles as well.

If it wasn't for Vinatieri kicking last second clutch FG's in the final seconds, Brady goes from 3 Super Bowls to 1 in all in a matter of seconds. Vinatieri is underrated in that category as well as the Pats defense, who was better than most Pats fans give (ex. Ty Law pick 6 against St.Louis in '01 and those spectacular performances against Manning in the playoffs.)

Ben had a pick 6 in the SB last year. Brady has played in 4 SBs and never had a pick 6. In fact in 4 SB games he only has one INT and seven TDs. Brady has won 75% of the SB he played in. Ben has won 66%. And the other thing...the Pats only needed a FG. This idea that Brady should be punished because his team didn't need a TD and only a FG is just stupid. He did exactly what he needed to do, put his team in position to win the game. To say it is less than throwing a TD is really nit picking.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Woah, woah, woah let's not whip out stats versus stats in Super Bowl games, guys. The sample size is way too small to draw anything meaningful. You have to measure post season vs post season and even then that sample size is still kinda small to really quantify anything useful. Apples to apples is great and all but it's still no good when you only have 5 or 6 bites on each apple to compare.

PS: I'm a die hard Pats fan. But I'm also a statistic nut.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

I also love how these idiots focus on the TD vs FG thing.

Hey Dummy, the point is to win the game.

The FG's were designed to get the kicker on the field to win the game AT THE END. Ya don't need a TD to win.

The Stealers needed the TD AND THEY LEFT TIME ON THE CLOCK.

There is no dumber fanbase in the NFL.

Plus Tom Brady did it in 2007. Obviously 46342 old Harrison is not Polamalu, Adalius Thomas is not James Harrison and that.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Plus Tom Brady did it in 2007. Obviously 46342 old Harrison is not Polamalu, Adalius Thomas is not James Harrison and that.

Huh?

Actually, the Cardinals offense absolutely steamrolled the Stealer defense. Absent the comeback, the Stealer defense pitched the single greatest collapse in Super Bowl history.

That Harrison pick 6 was actually him screwing up by dropping into coverage.

Always interesting how luck falls into it.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

It baffles me that people still put Rivers in that group at the expense of Ben. What has Rivers ever done to deserve to be mentioned with those other guys? (Other than give wet dreams to fantasy owners)

I agree more with SolderKing, that Rivers is a long way from Ben. But I feel Ben deserves to be classified with Brady, Manning, Rogers, and Brees. All legitimate Super Bowl, HOF caliber QB's. Of the recent SB winners, only Eli is the one who somehow found the needle in the haystack.

At last something on which to agree. I am amazed that people put Rivers in the same category with Brady and P. Manning, or even with Rodgers and Brees. His stats in the regular season and when the game isn't on the line are great, but when it counts, he doesn't get it done. Latest exhibit? Last Sunday vs. the Jests.

Disagree on Big Ben. As far as I'm concerned, we can all pull out the "stats" that support our views and twist and "spin" them to make our points. But, Belichick doesn't say that "stats are for losers" for nothing.

To me, the bottom line in saying that Ben doesn't belong in the same "class" as Brady is simple. 2 League MVP's, 2 SB MVP's, 4--1 in head to head meetings (4--0 since their first game), including 1--0 in the Playoffs.

When Ben convinces people that he is good enough to be an MVP of the League or a SB or when Ben goes head to head with Tommy and beats him two or three times in a row, then come and raise the topic again. Until then, it's just a game of "my stats" vs. "your stats" and only losers argue that the stats make them better.

Roethlisberger is not in the same class as Brady.

Again, I appreciate your tone in posting, but if you can't make an argument beyond your own "spin" of the stats, I'm really not interested in debating.

I've followed the NFL since I saw my first game in 1960 (Norm Van Brocklin, another great) and I'm a student of its history and stats. I can argue stats until the cows come home, but, in the end, they're subject both to the era in which a player is competing and to too many exogenous factors to be anything other than "interesting."
 
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Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Rivers is a long way from Ben? Yeah, okay.

Give him the Steelers defense and a half-competent coaching staff and we'll talk about it.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Rivers is a long way from Ben? Yeah, okay.

Give him the Steelers defense and a half-competent coaching staff and we'll talk about it.

Heck, I think just the coaching staff would suffice.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

lol Rivers has single-handedly carried his team for the past 3-5 years. Big Ben won a ring by handing the ball off 40-50 times a game.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Woah, woah, WOAH! Last I checked Brady has 6 rings and is the only QB to ever win 3 in a row. There is no comparison.







Oh, I'm also from 5 years in the future.
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

lol Rivers has single-handedly carried his team for the past 3-5 years. Big Ben won a ring by handing the ball off 40-50 times a game.

That post is wrong on so many levels. Their defense is almost always in the top half in the league. He had Antonio Gates and LT + Sproles in the back field. Yet he single handily carried his team?

And the Steelers haven't handed the ball off 50 times a game since Bettis, ever since Arians it's bee more passing and more passing. The lines been in shambles since Faneca left.

Thanks for playing :violent:
 
Re: The Ultimate Brady vs. Ben Thread. Pittsburgh Troll Thinks They ARE in the same c

Woah, woah, WOAH! Last I checked Brady has 6 rings and is the only QB to ever win 3 in a row. There is no comparison.







Oh, I'm also from 5 years in the future.

Please let me know what you're smoking and/or drinking. I'd like to try some. :)
 
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