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NFL Rules- Hit on Brady Legal!


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Drewwho

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Just reported on EEI...no fine to Ingram.

Than can someone tell me what the heck spearing is??????
 
I don't feel too strongly regarding a fine to Ingram. It was a bang-bang play and may or may not have been intentional.

However, for Del Rio to state on his team's website two days later that his players should "spear" is a huge fine to happen plus a suspension. That's what I'm waiting for.
 
Del Rio should be fined. He and his big mouth. Go Pats :rocker:
 
From the Globe:

Brady declined to speak about Del Rio's comments yesterday. Meanwhile, Patriots coach Bill Belichick came to Brady's defense.

"Considering Tom's great games over the years against Jack Del Rio's defenses, you can understand the frustration," Belichick said. "I'm all for supporting your players, but it was a little surprising to hear he said that."
 
Belechik talking trash!

(or at least as close as he's gotten)

From the Globe:

Brady declined to speak about Del Rio's comments yesterday. Meanwhile, Patriots coach Bill Belichick came to Brady's defense.

"Considering Tom's great games over the years against Jack Del Rio's defenses, you can understand the frustration," Belichick said. "I'm all for supporting your players, but it was a little surprising to hear he said that."
 
I agree with the ruling. The helmet contact didn't appear intentional. These things just happen sometimes. If you watch the replay you can clearly see the defender bracing and positioning his shoulder for a hit. But DelRio should be fined, BB showed him the proper way to stick up for your players.

"Considering Tom's great games over the years against Jack Del Rio's defenses, you can understand the frustration,"

Coach, consider yourself *****-slapped!
 
I agree with the ruling. The helmet contact didn't appear intentional. These things just happen sometimes. If you watch the replay you can clearly see the defender bracing and positioning his shoulder for a hit.
I think you should go back and look at the replay again. I do presume you have it taped or recorded ?
 
Once again the NFL is trying to cover up for its bad officiating and the obvious non-call by its field crew. Since noboby got "hurt" and the Pats won anyway, why call yourself out?
 
Lets see what happens if #37 does the same thing, I am willing to be a different response by the NFL..
 
I agree with the ruling. The helmet contact didn't appear intentional. These things just happen sometimes. If you watch the replay you can clearly see the defender bracing and positioning his shoulder for a hit. But DelRio should be fined, BB showed him the proper way to stick up for your players.

"Considering Tom's great games over the years against Jack Del Rio's defenses, you can understand the frustration,"

Coach, consider yourself *****-slapped!

Jeffd -
According to the RULE, it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not. Nor does it say anything regarding whether the player is defenseless in the rule.

Aiello screwed up and so did the officiating crew. That was as clear a case of spearing as it was last year when Sauerbrun speared Hobbs on the punt and caused the fumble.
 
If the League considered the spear unintentional, they did not need to hit the kid with a huge fine, a grand would have sent him a caution flag. Since they ruled that spearing is not finable in this instance, we're back to the poor officiating standard the League is endorsing. Too bad the Pats won't be kicking any Jags to the curb in the post-season - right Dul Rio?
 
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

December 28, 2006
Ingram's hit

Several fans have emailed regarding the fourth-quarter hit taken by QB Tom Brady in Sunday's game against the Jaguars, wondering if it was spearing (which is illegal).

Here is a little bit of follow-up from that play:

* On the Jaguars' official website, Jacksonville head coach Jack Del Rio defends the hit delivered by rookie LB Clint Ingram.

* In the Florida-Times Union, Ingram said the hit on Brady wasn't intentional. He added that he has yet to hear from the NFL regarding a possible fine.

* As for spearing, it is covered in the NFL rule book under Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(g). The rule reads as follows: "Using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules."

Posted By: mreiss | Time: 07:48:42 AM
 
Once again the NFL is trying to cover up for its bad officiating and the obvious non-call by its field crew. Since noboby got "hurt" and the Pats won anyway, why call yourself out?
I agree about the bad officiating, but are we sure Brady isn't hurt? As for the bang bang play and the defender already started at him theories, almost all of football is that way. For example, most of the sideline unnecessary roughness hits on ball carriers are the same way, so stop calling them. Bad mistake the way this one was ruled and it will encourage more such hits on QBs. "Well, they didn't call it when Brady got speared".
 
Geez, I'm stunned by this. It's hard to imagine a better example of spearing..
 
Terrible call by the NFL - isn't it just amazing that we have rules being emphasised where brushing a QB's helmet can warrant a 15 yard penalty yet a casebook example of a dangerous play isn't punished.

I dont think Ingram necessarily intended to hit Brady like that, but intention doesnt make up any part of the rule.

As Bad as Brady's sore back is - a broken neck for a LBer is more likely.

NM
 
I agree about the bad officiating, but are we sure Brady isn't hurt? As for the bang bang play and the defender already started at him theories, almost all of football is that way. For example, most of the sideline unnecessary roughness hits on ball carriers are the same way, so stop calling them. Bad mistake the way this one was ruled and it will encourage more such hits on QBs. "Well, they didn't call it when Brady got speared".

That's why I put "hurt" in quotes - I certainly do think Brady was hurt on the play, but because he is tough and has the mentality that they are not going to take him out, he only sat out for one play. That he missed two days of practice this week is indicative that he was indeed hurt on the play. I also think you're right that if there is no fine for either the player or the coach, this will encourage more of the same.
 
Pats1 said:
"As for spearing, it is covered in the NFL rule book under Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8(g). The rule reads as follows: "Using any part of a player’s helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/“hairline†parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily; although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against any opponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures (e.g., a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass, a runner already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air, or a player on the ground at the end of a play). All players in virtually defenseless postures are protected by the same prohibitions against use of the helmet and facemask that are described in the roughing-the-passer rules."

I just looked at this one more time. There is just no way that it wasn't intentional by Ingram. Just look at it in slo mo. He doesn't even put his arms out to touch Brady !! Not only that, but you see him so clearly tuck his head down and dive down to hit Brady. Absolutely intentional spearing.

Worse yet, intentional is not even a requirement to call it spearing. No one in his right mind can call that anything but a violent hit. And, as you can read in plain English in the quote by Pats1, the rule applies if it is violent and it doesn't matter whether it was 'unnecessary'. That's an OR clause in the rule. The fact that the helmut contacts the opponent and the hit is violent is the primary part of the rule.

The other crazy thing about this was in Aiello's comments from the NFL:

"Aiello explained that because Brady was running on the play in question -- and was diving headfirst -- he wasn't in a defenseless position that a receiver catching a pass or a quarterback throwing a pass might find himself in. Had Brady been on the ground and then Ingram hit him, the result could have been different."

That's absolutely crazy. He totally twists the rule around from it's wording. He makes it sound like the rule is that a 'defenseless' position is a criteria for violation of the rule. It is absolutely NOT. That is just an extra emphasis on the primary rule.

I'd like to know which people in the NFL office decided this issue. I had hoped that Mike Pereira's discussion on NFL.com would cover this play but it didn't. I would have been absolutely fascinated to see what he would have said.

Another crazy thing about it is, I wonder if the official(s) were so wrapped up in the fact that Brady as a QB wasn't sliding so he could be tackled that they ignored the evaluation that probably 99% of the time this would be called a foul with this kind of hit on any other runner.

I still think that all of these emphases on the rules over the last couple years have done a job on the referees heads. They are struggling to settle into a new consistent way to call plays and I think are second guessing themselves on almost every call. Perhaps it will sort itself out with a little more time.
 
I wonder if that hit looked a lot worse on tv than it did on the field. That Brady is apparently okay would suggest that, and would explain why there was no penalty or fine.
 
I wonder if that hit looked a lot worse on tv than it did on the field. That Brady is apparently okay would suggest that, and would explain why there was no penalty or fine.
Do you have this game recorded ? If you do, look at it again. It's like a violent whiplash. Look at it and figure out how 'worse' you think you would feel/be if you got hit like that.
 
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