Belichick doesn't understand psychological warfare

Deus Irae · Jan 17, 2011

Rob0729 said:
I disagreed with the benching of Welker in a game like this. That was a poor decision, but had no effect on the game. Otherwise, I have no problem with what Belichick did all week. He told his players to ignore the BS and do their preparation and that is what he should have.

That was part and parcel of his whole approach. He screwed the pooch on this one. Sometimes he lets his stubbornness get to the point of stupidity. This past week was one such time.

Fogbuster · Jan 18, 2011

Deus Irae said:
Everyone knew what Ryan was trying to do in the media. Hell, the media was openly discussing it, day after day. Belichick could have ended all that crap with one 2 minute press conference and a few follow up reminders. Instead, he let it go on all week and then benched his player for a mild response to it.

Belichick screwed up royally. Pretending otherwise is just ignoring reality.

I think we all have to realize that everyone outside of "Patriots Nation" wanted the Pats to fail. ESPECIALLY the media. The scum piece that ESPN ran just before the game claiming the Pats had interfered with a Jets gunner some weeks back is exhibit A. America always roots for the underdog and too many people are tired of the Pats having their way, so we were up against more than just Rex Ryan and any short-comings of BB and TB. The universe was lined up in favor of the underdog Jets, loud-mouthed and boorish as they are. It was what it was.

Rob0729 · Jan 18, 2011

Deus Irae said:
That was part and parcel of his whole approach. He screwed the pooch on this one. Sometimes he lets his stubbornness get to the point of stupidity. This past week was one such time.

I disagree. The Pats came into the game focused and dominant. Their problem was adjusting to the Jets' adjustments. That has nothing to do with "stubborness".

Fogbuster · Jan 18, 2011

MainePatsFan26 said:
I completely disagree. First of all, do you really think Welker went out of his way to undercut BB? Welker has been pure Patriot all this time. Now all of a sudden he mouths off? It is possible, but I think maybe BB had a little to do with this. Benching him was sending the Jets a message: we have dignity and a code you do not. You are undisciplined and that is why you will lose. So I believe deep down BB might have instructed Welker, or at least told him to come up with something. Now, if the Patriots EXECUTED their game plan effectively, we would all send congrats to BB for doing things the Patriot way. But we lost, and thus the Patriot way is losing games for us. We can't have it both ways, and considering the lack of talent at many positions, this season was a huge success. Let's not get carried away blaming BB, when without him, I would have pegged us at 5-11 considering the lack of talent on this roster and the rash of injuries.

Wes never tried to undercut BB. No way, no how. Wes was just being a man, responding to the call out by Ryan, Croumartie, etc. Wes was trying to take on some of the crap being spewed down in East Rutherford.

Now BB's response was weird. Welker tries to back up his coach, and the coach *punishes* Wes for it???? Wrong message at a most critical time. I think Bill wishes he could have that one back.

DarrylS · Jan 18, 2011

You should all read the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu.. might help clarify some of this idle tripe..

He understands it as well as anyone, the Jets did not win because of their bombasity.. they won because the Pats had a shytty game plan, made too many mistakes(dropped passes and penalties) and did not make changes on the fly..

tedy hagler · Jan 18, 2011

BB does understand warfare and he is one of the best at managing the modern day gladiators. The team preaches a consistent theme of excellence and being a solid teammate each year. But I do think the Welker benching was a major mistake, one he will regret, just as he reportedly regretted sending home Moss and others last year after being late to practice and causing an uproar.

Fine Welker if you need to prove a point. But don't take your best receiver off the field. That was stupid. That shows arrogance. And it is a small part of why we lost.

fair catch fryar · Jan 18, 2011

Fogbuster said:
I disagree. When a coach or lead player goes public -- to the national media -- and basically slaps you in the face with a challenge, you need to respond with force. Ryan called BB out on Sunday/Monday last week, and BB's response was to try and make a joke out of it. Didn't work. Didn't impress the Jets, and even more importantly, it didn't impress his own players.

By Ryan calling out Belichick, and Belichick's non-response, Ryan immediately got into the heads of the Patriots players. They began to secretly wonder if BB was *really* the guru and master -OR- if maybe Rex Ryan had replaced the Hooded One as the new grand master. That's the nature of a public challenge. You either answer it with force, or you lose face. It's not something that can be laughed away with one liners. BB got owned by Ryan a week ago, and it all played out that way yesterday. Super bummer.

BB was all business and NO smiles during those early years when he was winning, but now that he's gotten a few Lombardis, he seems to have gone soft. Maybe time to retire. He's got lots of dough, he doesn't need to just take up space by living off his past laurels, doing well in the regular season then choking in the play-offs. If he's going to let other coaches call him out, he's not going to win any more championships. Time to call it a career and go off into the sunset. There are hungry, smart, and tough coaches who are waiting in the wings.

From your response am I to assume that you hold a Masters or Doctorate in Psychological Warfare from the US Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania? Maybe you should send your resume and qualifications to BB. It's as simple as players possessing or learning mental toughness. The teams of 2001, 2003, & 2004 and even 2007 had this because they had an extremely resilient and battle-tested core of veteran players. This team is relatively young and should be able to learn from this and the example that leaders like Brady and Wilfork set. The young players on this team were selected for many reasons, not only for their athletic abilities, but for their capacity to handle pressure and learn from it. I'm holding judgment for now. As far as Rex goes, it may work for him right now, but I'll guarantee that this kind of bravado has a much shorter shelf life and is really just gimmicks and props. If he fails to reach the SB the pressure will increase on him tenfold going into next year and eventually it will take it's toll.

Fogbuster · Jan 18, 2011

fair catch fryar said:
From your response am I to assume that you hold a Masters or Doctorate in Psychological Warfare from the US Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania? Maybe you should send your resume and qualifications to BB. It's as simple as players possessing or learning mental toughness. The teams of 2001, 2003, & 2004 and even 2007 had this because they had an extremely resilient and battle-tested core of veteran players. This team is relatively young and should be able to learn from this and the example that leaders like Brady and Wilfork set. The young players on this team were selected for many reasons, not only for their athletic abilities, but for their capacity to handle pressure and learn from it. I'm holding judgment for now. As far as Rex goes, it may work for him right now, but I'll guarantee that this kind of bravado has a much shorter shelf life and is really just gimmicks and props. If he fails to reach the SB the pressure will increase on him tenfold going into next year and eventually it will take it's toll.

OK, points taken. I agree that Ryan's schtick is flimsy and won't wear well. It'll get old real fast. Even if he wins, if he keeps it up, he will more hated than the Patriots ever were. So, he will eventually change his tune, for one reason or another.

But I do still believe that Bill Belichick underestimated the Jets; either that or BB got sucked into Ryan's game, and Ryan got into Bill's head. The results are what they are. The Pats were rolling for the last 8 weeks of the season, the Jets were scratching to get by. All that changed on Sunday, as if each team switched karmas. Sad to see, as a Pats fan.

DarrylS · Jan 18, 2011

Addendum to the above.. most of the players selected in the last draft were captains of their college teams..

There were also 24 new players on this team last year.. something like 23 UDFA's.. that is why what happened is so remarkable.

sieglo · Jan 18, 2011

fair catch fryar said:
From your response am I to assume that you hold a Masters or Doctorate in Psychological Warfare from the US Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania? Maybe you should send your resume and qualifications to BB. It's as simple as players possessing or learning mental toughness. The teams of 2001, 2003, & 2004 and even 2007 had this because they had an extremely resilient and battle-tested core of veteran players. This team is relatively young and should be able to learn from this and the example that leaders like Brady and Wilfork set. The young players on this team were selected for many reasons, not only for their athletic abilities, but for their capacity to handle pressure and learn from it. I'm holding judgment for now. As far as Rex goes, it may work for him right now, but I'll guarantee that this kind of bravado has a much shorter shelf life and is really just gimmicks and props. If he fails to reach the SB the pressure will increase on him tenfold going into next year and eventually it will take it's toll.

This would be fine and dandy except it neglects to account for recent history, namely last year. Pats got blown out by the Ravens at home. Did the young players learn from it? Apparently not. Meanwhile, the Jets went on to fail in the AFC Championship, badly. Did the media turn on Rex? No.

fair catch fryar · Jan 18, 2011

sieglo said:
This would be fine and dandy except it neglects to account for recent history, namely last year. Pats got blown out by the Ravens at home. Did the young players learn from it? Apparently not. Meanwhile, the Jets went on to fail in the AFC Championship, badly. Did the media turn on Rex? No.

Look at how many players were on the team a year ago that are on it now. There is a huge discrepancy. BB will be the first to tell you he got out-coached and out-schemed and he too makes mistakes, but what a lot of people are failing to recognize is how poor execution and how many little things did not go their way. Brady started out great in the first two series, barring the int. and the dropped pass by Crumpler this would've been a totally different game. Rex's act is all the rage right now, but lets see where the Jets are in a few weeks. To say BB needs to change his coaching style and personality is absurd. Quite frankly, I would tune out to the Patriots if they all started behaving this way and am still pretty confident that the Pats will win another SB before BB and Brady call it quits.

PittPatriot · Jan 18, 2011

Fogbuster said:
I disagree. When a coach or lead player goes public -- to the national media -- and basically slaps you in the face with a challenge, you need to respond with force...You either answer it with force, or you lose face.

BB was all business and NO smiles during those early years when he was winning, but now that he's gotten a few Lombardis, he seems to have gone soft. Maybe time to retire. He's got lots of dough, he doesn't need to just take up space by living off his past laurels, doing well in the regular season then choking in the play-offs. If he's going to let other coaches call him out, he's not going to win any more championships. Time to call it a career and go off into the sunset. There are hungry, smart, and tough coaches who are waiting in the wings.

"Sweep the leg, Johnny."
Are you the Cobra Kai sensei?

I don't disagree with the first half of your post, but I am not buying the last paragraph. Josh McD is a "hungry, smart, tough coach" who just helped set a franchise back a few seasons. Who is waiting in the wings? Most of these young coaches are going to suck. Rex Ryan is not a better coach than BB - watch the next 3 years when we sweep the NYJ. This loss has changed the dynamic of this rivalry.

TB, Branch, Welker, etc are professionals. They were personally dragged out in the media at different times this season - certainly they should not not need a coach to caffeinate them for the biggest game of the season.

fair catch fryar · Jan 18, 2011

Fogbuster said:
OK, points taken. I agree that Ryan's schtick is flimsy and won't wear well. It'll get old real fast. Even if he wins, if he keeps it up, he will more hated than the Patriots ever were. So, he will eventually change his tune, for one reason or another.

But I do still believe that Bill Belichick underestimated the Jets; either that or BB got sucked into Ryan's game, and Ryan got into Bill's head. The results are what they are. The Pats were rolling for the last 8 weeks of the season, the Jets were scratching to get by. All that changed on Sunday, as if each team switched karmas. Sad to see, as a Pats fan.

I agree. Rex Ryan is not a slouch when it comes to X' & O's and he definitely was better prepared for the game.

PittPatriot · Jan 18, 2011

Deus Irae said:
Everyone knew what Ryan was trying to do in the media. Hell, the media was openly discussing it, day after day. Belichick could have ended all that crap with one 2 minute press conference and a few follow up reminders. Instead, he let it go on all week and then benched his player for a mild response to it.

Belichick screwed up royally. Pretending otherwise is just ignoring reality.

Deus,
I respect BB for the way he handled things throughout the week, but I agree with you that benching Welker (minutes before kickoff?) was not the right call. It seemed to affect the whole team. Maybe if in the days leading up to the game, BB pulls TB and the offense aside to let them know of his decision would have allowed the team to put it behind them and focus on the game. Instead, it looked like they came out a big unenthused and sluggish.

PatsFanSince74 · Jan 18, 2011

patsfan-1982 said:
BB dose not play on sundays this team never had the talent to win a SB they won 14 games cause Brady, was playing out of he's mind if Brady dose not put up 30 points a game they cant win.... this defense feeds off of other teams mistakes and when teams dont make any they are a plan bad defense

Agree on your first point and note that 30 points would have won on Sunday, but I don't go as hard on the D. If you look at the 28 points the D gave up, seven were on a short field after that brain-fart called a fake punt and seven were on another short field after the poorly executed on-sides kick. In addition, our Special Teams seemed to give the Jets the ball between the 35 and 50 on virtually every kick.

Bruno · Jan 18, 2011

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
lol... Arguably the best NFL coach of all-time does not understand psychological warfare. Of all the overreaction comments, this ranks near the top.

I've said this ALL SEASON. The Patriots have dominated opponents because they've marched down the field early on in games, forcing defenses and offenses alike to lose confidence, get confused, and scrap their gameplans. When that does not happen, this team is not going to dominate anymore. It had nothing to do with motivation.

This!

They do not have the ability to come from big deficits because of lack of talent, not brim and fire. Bunch up the middle, there is no outside threat. Run outside, there is no one to rush the passer of protect the perimeter. It's a talent issue.

Armchair Quarterback · Jan 18, 2011

Bruno said:
This!

They do not have the ability to come from big deficits because of lack of talent, not brim and fire. Bunch up the middle, there is no outside threat. Run outside, there is no one to rush the passer of protect the perimeter. It's a talent issue.

Lack of Talent? The team was 14-2, outscored their opponents 518-313 and the Jets 45-3 week 13. It's not lack of talent, it was lack of execution on the players part and as well as a poorly coached game by the Patriots.

pats60 · Jan 18, 2011

Armchair Quarterback said:
Lack of Talent? The team was 14-2, outscored their opponents 518-313 and the Jets 45-3 week 13. It's not lack of talent, it was lack of execution on the players part and as well as a poorly coached game by the Patriots.

Amen 10 times

Fogbuster · Jan 19, 2011

pats60 said:
Amen 10 times

I've always believed that football, more than any sport, is 40% physical talent and 60% heart/desire/determination/guts. The team with the stronger internal qualities is going to win, 9 times out of 10. The Pats were that kind of team in the first four years of this decade. Since 2005, however, something has left the building. The Pats need another Red Auerbach, somebody who will never allow the team to rest on its laurels. Secretly, inside it looks like BB and TB got what they wanted and are now just trying to manufacture "desire". Can't do that. Either one has it or one does not. Not such thing as synthetic desire, by definition.

//

JtudsJetsFan · Jan 19, 2011

sieglo said:
Belichick doesn't understand psychological warfare, and what's more, he is often victimized by it.

Some times, you need to get your team fired up. Sometimes you need to respond to the smack talking. Sometimes you need to show some pride, especially when you're playing at home.

Benching Welker before the game was a major psychological mistake, especially after all the Jets' yapping this week.

Belichick ought to go back and run the game tape on how the team played the week after the whole Spygate thing happened. They DESTROYED the Jets. Sometimes, you need to get your team fired up. The Jets were yesterday. The Patriots weren't. That's two years in a row, BTW.

In addition, you have now a pretty clear track record of meltdowns in big games over the last few years. For Brady and Belichick both. Those guys need to talk to a sports psychologist or something so that they stop turtling every time something goes wrong in a big game. Someone in another thread had it straight. There's an element of shell shock there that needs to be addressed.

Incidentally, the Pats media response to Spygate was also horribly mismanaged from a PR/psychological perspective. It's a massively recurring theme.

Hopefully they do something about it in the off season.

Are you a psychiatrist or is this all just coming out of your arse? I'll bet a fortune on the latter. It's pro football. Prepare yourself, then go out there and perform.

Belichick doesn't understand psychological warfare

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