Simmons: Brady, Manning and the rivalry

BrainTrust66 · Jan 7, 2011

Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

If you don't like Bill Simmons, read no further. Although the piece is long, I found it entertaining and a good thing to revisit during the bye week.

Bill Simmons: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning -- the rivalry - ESPN

Here's one trip down memory lane that I particularly enjoyed. I'm sure we all remember where we were for each of THESE games.

Brady has beaten Manning eight of 12 times. Half of those games were memorable enough that either Pats or Colts fans (and in some cases, both) recall them by a specific phrase: the "Goal-Line Stand Game" (in 2003, in which the Pats prevailed with a goal-line stand in Indy); the "Four-Pick Game" (the 2003 AFC championship, in which the Patriots forced four Manning turnovers, also known in New England as the "Game Bill Polian Whined About Afterward Because We Beat Up His Receivers Like The [Bleeps] They Were"); the "Cut That Meat Game" (Round 2 in 2004, in which New England held Indy's offense to three points in a snowstorm as Patriots fans delightedly chanted "Cut That Meat," mocking one of Manning's commercials); the "40-Point Game" (in 2005, in which Indy finally beat Brady by exploding for 40 in Foxborough on a Monday night); "The Comeback" (in which Manning roared back from 18 down to beat New England for the 2006 AFC title, also known in New England as the "We Had It" game); and "Fourth-And-2" (in 2009, an implausible Colts comeback win that inspired a 4,000-word rant from me). Put it this way: The NFL Network could run a Brady-Manning marathon that could kill your whole weekend.

Uncle Rico · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

BrainTrust66 said:
If you don't like Bill Simmons, read no further. ....

I was going to say, "If you don't like Bill Simmons, you should still give this a read." It's mighty good.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Outstanding article that makes you think about this rivalry in a completely different light. To Brady and Manning, there are no comparative stat columns and achievements side-by-side. It's not about the big picture and "what did I accomplish"; it's about figuring out the next opponent and not worrying about anything else. This is what sets these two apart in their extreme ability to focus and block out all of the distractions around them.

ALP · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

wait, ive never noticed this before:

1. 2007 Brady (16 G): 4,806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, 9.4 YPA, 117.2 rating, 16 wins.
2. 2004 Manning (16 G): 4,557 yards, 49 TDs, 10 INTs, 9.2 YPA, 121.1 rating, 12 wins.

i know passer rating is not the end all be all....but what??? how does that work out???

when u have a higher YPA, and more TD's, and less INT's....is it the completion % thats the culprit???

Mainefan · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Now that is a sports writer. In fact, forget "sports." He's a damn good writer period. Terrific column.

upstater1 · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

ALP said:
wait, ive never noticed this before:

1. 2007 Brady (16 G): 4,806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, 9.4 YPA, 117.2 rating, 16 wins.
2. 2004 Manning (16 G): 4,557 yards, 49 TDs, 10 INTs, 9.2 YPA, 121.1 rating, 12 wins.

i know passer rating is not the end all be all....but what??? how does that work out???

when u have a higher YPA, and more TD's, and less INT's....is it the completion % thats the culprit???

I was playing Madden last night and I intercepted Sanchez 7 times at the highest level of play (as Brady, I didn't throw one interception but Brady did fumble twice, and Maroney had 2 fumbles as well--haven't updated rosters yet).

The game was played in Foxboro in very slick weather and rain.

Brady threw for 189 yards and 2 TD and no INTs and won the game. Sanchez threw for 390 yards and 3 TDs and 7 INTs, and he had a much higher rating.

Madden teaches you that passing rating is totally ridiculous.

drew4008 · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

ALP said:
when u have a higher YPA, and more TD's, and less INT's....is it the completion % thats the culprit???

Yup, for some reason the completion percentage is weighted an inordinate amount in the calculation.

Uncle Rico · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

ALP said:
wait, ive never noticed this before:

1. 2007 Brady (16 G): 4,806 yards, 50 TDs, 8 INTs, 9.4 YPA, 117.2 rating, 16 wins.
2. 2004 Manning (16 G): 4,557 yards, 49 TDs, 10 INTs, 9.2 YPA, 121.1 rating, 12 wins.

i know passer rating is not the end all be all....but what??? how does that work out???

when u have a higher YPA, and more TD's, and less INT's....is it the completion % thats the culprit???

I just did the math and I think the stats here are wrong. I come up with 8.31 yards per attempt by Brady ('07), 9.16 for Manning ('04). Which makes sense as I do remember hearing that that was the difference.

Tom Brady NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Peyton Manning NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

mcgraw_wv · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

I ask anyone who doesn't think Brady is the best ever, "What does he need to do in order to convince you otherwise?"

Most TDs ever, Most this, most that, fastest to this fastest to that, championships, clutch play, dominate play... MVPs, ProBowls... I mean what does he have to do to be considered the best ever?

If the Pats make it to the SB, which again, I am not nearly as confident as the media has been these past weeks...

That will mean Brady has played in 50% of the Super Bowls over the last decade... That is THE most impressive stat ever.

Willie55 · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

1999-2002: Manning. By a landslide. Even after Brady's improbable Super Bowl victory over the Rams. UPPER HAND: MANNING.

How could Manning be considered to have the upper hand during this time frame? First how do you count '99 and '00? In the '01 season the Pats beat the Colts 38-17. During that game Brady had 3 touchdown passes to Manning's 1. And as he states in the article Brady won the Super Bowl that year. UPPER HAND: BRADY.

FSUPatsFan · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

BrainTrust66 said:
If you don't like Bill Simmons, read no further. Although the piece is long, I found it entertaining and a good thing to revisit during the bye week.

Bill Simmons: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning -- the rivalry - ESPN

Here's one trip down memory lane that I particularly enjoyed. I'm sure we all remember where we were for each of THESE games.

He forgets that 2007 was also a ridiculously good game.

New England Patriots vs. Indianapolis Colts - Box Score - November 04, 2007 - ESPN

Both teams were undefeated coming into the game (7-0 & 8-0) and the Pats were down 10 with 8 minutes to go. The colts pretty much dominated the game for 3 quarters and the Patriots came back in the end. The only play I remember clearly from that game is Brady hitting Moss deep near the end of the game along the left sideline. That set up a touchdown to put us within 3.

Of course, the defense sealed the game by forcing Peyton to fumble

Ice_Ice_Brady · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

FSUPatsFan said:
He forgets that 2007 was also a ridiculously good game.

New England Patriots vs. Indianapolis Colts - Box Score - November 04, 2007 - ESPN

Both teams were undefeated coming into the game (7-0 & 8-0) and the Pats were down 10 with 8 minutes to go. The colts pretty much dominated the game for 3 quarters and the Patriots came back in the end. The only play I remember clearly from that game is Brady hitting Moss deep near the end of the game along the left sideline. That set up a touchdown to put us within 3.

Of course, the defense sealed the game by forcing Peyton to fumble

This was an epic game between two of the best teams of the last decade. The Colts dominated that season, and although all the focus was on the 18-1 team, the Colts choked harder that year. If you recall, they couldn't beat Billy Volek's Chargers in the playoffs.

Nikolai · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

I freely admit that I don't really know Bill Simmons that well, but this article is mostly well written. I prefer this to the blog-style writing that passes for sports journalism these days.

People forget that Brady has stats on his side now as well. He may not rack up the volume stats, but I'm not a fan of those anyway; see Kitna.

dhamz · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Uncle Rico said:
I was going to say, "If you don't like Bill Simmons, you should still give this a read." It's mighty good.

That was good - much more like what he used to write back in his early days before he started handing in tired fill in the blanks formula columns.

robbomango · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Best Manning Brady article I've read in a while

aluminum seats · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

dhamz said:
That was good - much more like what he used to write back in his early days before he started handing in tired fill in the blanks formula columns.

The difference being back in the day he wrote purely as a fan--now, his clout has increased to the point where he can casually say, "so I called Brady to chat...." without even drawing attention to it. Not that the change is bad, just different.

Patsgirl_DK · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Willie55 said:
How could Manning be considered to have the upper hand during this time frame? First how do you count '99 and '00? In the '01 season the Pats beat the Colts 38-17. During that game Brady had 3 touchdown passes to Manning's 1. And as he states in the article Brady won the Super Bowl that year. UPPER HAND: BRADY.

Simmons point is what people was thinking/saying at the time. Manning was a #1 pick and Brady was at the time considered to be a decent QB who in 2001 had benefited from a good D# and who was mostly just managing the O (not saying that was the case but most non-patsfans thought so). In other words: Back in 2002 if you asked people who they would choose as the best QB Brady or Manning. Most non-patsfans would choose Manning without a doubt. Now once Brady won his second ring in 2003 (and beating Manning in the AFCCG didn´t hurt either) thats when more and more people started considering Brady. But before 2003 Manning definitely had the upper hand in the rivalry.

BWT - nice column, thanks for posting the link.

shmessy · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

Damn, he can write.

Born_a_Patriot · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

ctpatsfan77 · Jan 7, 2011

Re: Simmons on Brady vs. Manning

FSUPatsFan said:
He forgets that 2007 was also a ridiculously good game.

New England Patriots vs. Indianapolis Colts - Box Score - November 04, 2007 - ESPN

Both teams were undefeated coming into the game (7-0 & 8-0) and the Pats were down 10 with 8 minutes to go. The colts and refs pretty much dominated the game for 3 quarters and the Patriots came back in the end. The only play I remember clearly from that game is Brady hitting Moss deep near the end of the game along the left sideline. That set up a touchdown to put us within 3.

Of course, the defense sealed the game by forcing Peyton to fumble

Fixed that for you. . . .

Simmons: Brady, Manning and the rivalry

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