TripGate Breaks Wide Open: Cimini of ESPN-NY Alleges It Came From The Top

KontradictioN said:

The tripping is absolutely a big deal. Nolan Carroll is the Dolphins gunner. He was taken out of bounds then taken out of the play by a Jets coach on the sidelines in a direct attempt to improve field position. Especially in a game like the one the Jets were in with the Dolphins (field position defensive game), that is a pretty high level of cheating. As for the rest of your post, I can confront your points in my response to shmessy.



First off, I can see like everyone else that Ryan is clearly looking at the play that's happening. I *think* that he's lying. But how would you go about proving that if you're the NFL? The question that was asked was whether or not Ryan saw the trip take place. In this case, the NFL can prove that he was looking at the gunner and in the area that the trip happened, but they can't actually prove that he saw the trip. His response could be something along the lines of, "I was watching the activity of the gunner in the area, but I didn't see Alosi trip him. Next thing I knew, he was on the ground in front of me. I thought he tripped over his own feet".

He can also go another couple of directions in his response/explanation to the NFL. Believe me, I'm an expert liar. This is why I believe that the investigation into the tripping and whether or not the Jets ordered it at a higher level should come first. The NFL is going to have a hell of a time proving that Ryan was actually lying about what he saw if they conduct that investigation first and foremost. Conduct the investigation about just how high up the trip was ordered from (like I said, Alosi should be an eager participant to help the NFL by now). Find that out, and if you have it going higher than Ryan, you have Ryan caught in the lie and can also address that.

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TheGodInAGreyHoodie said:

Here is the longer version.....

Secret Transcript between Rex Ryan and Mike Tannenbaum and Woody Johnson.

MT: Rex, did you order the Green Wall?
WJ: You *don't* have to answer that question!
RR: I'll answer the question!
RR: You want answers?
MT: I think I'm entitled.
RR: *You want answers?*
MT: *I want the truth!*
RR: *You can't handle the truth!*
[pauses]
RR: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men in green sweat pants. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Westhoff? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Nolan Carroll, and you curse the field goal kicker. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Carroll's injury, while tragic, probably saved yards. And my fat ass, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games. And there is no ****ing way we can win a game with Sanchez as the QB without cheating. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at in the PSL luxury box, you want me to order the green wall, you need me to order the green wall. We use words like zerbra, 16, left. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the cheating I do, and then questions the manner in which I cheat. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you put on some green sweat pants and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
MT: Did you order the Green Wall?
RR: I did the job I...
MT: *Did you order the Green Wall?*
RR: *You're Goddamn right I did!*

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Coach42 said:

Fact is that their is so much nepotism, coaching changes, and personnel movement in the NFL that it is impossible for a team to be "cheating" without all other 32 teams knowing about it. Trying playing 6 degrees of Kevin Gilbride, literally everyone in this league is linked in some form or fashion.

The only thing that was dirty about the Jets thing was that the jerk stuck his knee out, that was dirty and absurd, but if you think for one second that all 31 other NFL teams don't form the same type of "wall" you're crazy. I also think Ryan and the 31 other head coaches are well aware of this tactic.

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mesoslo said:

Players run out of bounds all the time. Players that are involved in the game during a live play should have more priority than sideline players, coaches.

So the fact that you dont try to get ou off the way is wrong no matter how you look at it.

If he shouldnt be out of bounds, then that just means opposing player shouldnt be abe to push him out of bounds.

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JSn said:

Honestly, I'm over it. The forming of the line doesn't bother me, that gunner wasn't supposed to be out of bounds.

The knee is bothersome, but I doubt that came from the top down. Just a stupid move he probably wished he could take back.

We're bigger than this, guys. We're just starting to sound like all the other haters. I even had a spurt earlier. Really not worth the energy. Let's just watch the Jets implode from their teams problems. Much more entertaining, imo.

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NFL reviewing Jets for Tripgate

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Tripgate isn't over for the New York Jets, who could be subject to sanctions by the NFL for using inactive players in an illegal wall and publicly accusing the New England Patriots of the same tactic.

"All of these matters are under review," league spokesman Greg Aiello said Thursday night in an e-mail to ESPNNewYork.com, responding to specific questions about the team's use of the wall and the Patriots-related remarks by special-teams coordinator Mike Westhoff.

A league representative is expected to meet with Jets officials as part of the investigation, and that meeting may occur as soon as Friday.

The controversy stems from Sal Alosi, the Jets' strength and conditioning coach, tripping Miami Dolphins player Nolan Carroll in Sunday's game at the New Meadowlands Stadium.

The Jets suspended Alosi for the remainder of the season without pay, but they increased the penalty to an indefinite suspension after determining Alosi instructed five inactive players to stand shoulder-to-shoulder along the sideline. The wall formation was designed to act as a deterrent to Carroll, the Dolphins' gunner on punt coverage.

The NFL sent a letter to the 32 teams Thursday reminding them of the rules and restrictions for the bench area and sidelines.

Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president for football operations, emphasized the responsibilities placed on each team to appoint a "get-back coach" to ensure that players, coaches and other staff are in compliance with league rules.

Both head coach Rex Ryan and Westhoff said they had no knowledge of the wall until they reviewed the tape, claiming Alosi acted alone. But Westhoff may have inflamed the matter Wednesday, telling Chicago sports radio station ESPN 1000's "Waddle and Silvy Show" that the Patriots also have used it.

The league is checking into whether Westhoff violated a league rule by publicly calling out the Patriots. A 2008 league memo from commissioner Roger Goodell, printed in the San Francisco Chronicle and brought to light Thursday by ESPNBoston.com, warned every team that making false claims against other clubs could result in penalties.

The memo read: "Any club or individual reporting a violation is expected to do so in good faith, to have a reasonable basis for believing a violation occurred, and to produce (or to identify) evidence to substantiate the claim. In the event I determine that a claim is made in bad faith, is frivolous or that the club or person making the complaint is unable to produce evidence to support the charge, I will impose appropriate sanctions."

A Jets spokesman deferred to the league for comment.

Westhoff, in his 28th season as an NFL assistant, spoke to the Chicago radio station on the same day the Jets announced they had discovered "new information" on the Alosi matter -- information that he had organized the wall. He was part of that formation and extended his left knee as Carroll sprinted by.

"If you watch carefully, there is a pretty good team up north that lines up their whole defense when they do it, so it's something that just kind of happened," Westhoff told the radio station, confirming that he meant the Patriots.

Later in the day, addressing reporters at the Jets' facility, Westhoff said, "I'm not accusing the Patriots of doing something wrong. Maybe they're doing something smart. That's up to you. Just watch the tape. You tell me. I know one thing, I don't teach it."

Patriots coach Bill Belichick doesn't meet with the media on Thursdays and was unavailable to comment.

Presumably, the league will investigate whether Alosi acted alone or whether he was instructed to organize the wall. One of the inactive players, tight end Jeff Cumberland, said Alosi had been instructing them from the start of the season to form the wall on punts.

Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum said Wednesday he welcomed a league review.

"The league is going to look into this, as well they should," he said.

Tannenbaum also said he'd meet with Ryan and owner Woody Johnson for "a full and complete review of the facts." He didn't expect it to take long to determine Alosi's fate.

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"The league is checking into whether Westhoff violated a league rule by publicly calling out the Patriots. A 2008 league memo from commissioner Roger Goodell, printed in the San Francisco Chronicle and brought to light Thursday by ESPNBoston.com, warned every team that making false claims against other clubs could result in penalties."

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jeffro said:

Now Jets could be in trouble for dragging Pats into this:

NFL could sanction New York Jets for Tripgate, Mike Westhoff's accusation that New England Patriots use sideline wall tactic - ESPN New York

"The league is checking into whether Westhoff violated a league rule by publicly calling out the Patriots. A 2008 league memo from commissioner Roger Goodell, printed in the San Francisco Chronicle and brought to light Thursday by ESPNBoston.com, warned every team that making false claims against other clubs could result in penalties."

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DaBruinz said:

You are 100% wrong. Those players (who were not dressed) and the S&C Coach (who is considered a bench coach) are not allowed in that 6' area according to league rules. The onlypeople allowed in that area are ones who are getting ready to sub and coaches.

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alamo said:

A couple of days ago I was of the mind that inactive players could be up in that 6' area. I have now decided I was wrong, based upon hearing several players and coaches speak knowledgeably on the subject.

Brian Billick, Jim Mora, and Steve Mariucci all made two things clear:
1) Coaches and active players only are allowed in that 6' area just behind the white area.
2) This rule is never enforced.

One of them said they expected a memo to the teams making the rule clear, but he did not expect any sanctions against the Jets. I agree, this parallels the 2007 Spygate situation: send a memo and ignore previous violations unless the memo is ignored.


I disagree with the idea Alosi is just a bench coach and had no right to be there. In all the discussions I have heard, no player or coach ever made a distinction between "coach" and "bench coach". One specifically said it was perfectly OK for Alosi to be in that area there but not the inactive players. And Alosi definitely had gameday duties.

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Former Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick, Ryan's old boss, begs to differ.

"Of course Rex knew about this," Billick, an NFL of FOX analyst, said Thursday on ESPN's "Mike and Mike in the Morning" radio show. "Players crowding the sideline, a gunner running down the sideline, has always been an issue, and I think what you're going to see with the league is the proverbial, 'We have a rule in place, it is going to be enforced.'"

This, of course, is part of the fallout from the Sal Alosi tripping incident. Alosi tripped a Miami Dolphins gunner, Nolan Carroll, and, after a three-day delay, the Jets announced that Alosi instructed five inactive players to form an illegal wall on the boundary. Alosi was suspended indefinitely.

The Jets claim Alosi wasn't coached to do that, that he acted alone. The team is investigating. The league is investigating if the organization is culpable and whether Westhoff crossed the line by public accusing the New England Patriots of the same tactic.

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Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Of all the sad, pathetic, homer attempts to spin something, this has to be the saddest. This Jets fan claims that the Patriots are doing it with a bunch of still shots of their special teams. You'll notice that there is absolutely ZERO evidence in any of these frames that support any kind of wall. The Patriots players are standing on the sidelines, not in unison, simply watching the play.

Westhoff Correct, Pats Guilty of lining Sidelines on Punts - TheGangGreen.com Message Board

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jeffro said:

Now Jets could be in trouble for dragging Pats into this:

NFL could sanction New York Jets for Tripgate, Mike Westhoff's accusation that New England Patriots use sideline wall tactic - ESPN New York

"The league is checking into whether Westhoff violated a league rule by publicly calling out the Patriots. A 2008 league memo from commissioner Roger Goodell, printed in the San Francisco Chronicle and brought to light Thursday by ESPNBoston.com, warned every team that making false claims against other clubs could result in penalties."

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