Golic on ESPNR-Caldwell hit not illegal

Pats_AZ · Oct 2, 2006

Amnorix said:
I did NOT see helmet to helmet, and my first reaction was -- although a devastating hit -- why the foul?

On replay, it appeared to a blow aimed for the head, against a defenseless receiver, and usually they will call that as a penalty.

My only problem with that is -- the way Caldwell's body was positioned relative to the defender's, I'm not sure how the defender could have delivered a good blow on Caldwell without hitting him in the head.

I'm a big fan fan of hard hitting "let em play" football....so being in AZ couldn't watch the game but heard about the hit....went home and saw it on SC....So with that said, to me it looked helmet to helmet, or at least a blow to the head and i think it was a consistant call in terms of what the league has been calling illegal.

Gumby · Oct 2, 2006

I think that it was not launched by the defender as a shot to the head.

It ended up either looking very much like one or was in fact one.

But it was a result of Caldwell slumping down or sliding and his head and shoulders were lower than what the DB expected if he were running in an upright position.

I think it was an unfortunate call for the DB; nice freebie extra yards for us and I am just glad that everybody walked away.

Cicero · Oct 2, 2006

To me it looked like a good solid hit but of course I am biased. The thing that gets me about it though is that our recievers have taken worse but similar hits in the past two games vs. the Steelers and Browns and no flag was thrown. If the NFL wants that type of hit to be flagged so be it, but enforce it in all games.

Bargod · Oct 2, 2006

I was glad to see him walk away as well. It's the first time I'd seen that guy where his eyes weren't bugging out of his head.

zippo59 · Oct 2, 2006

Yeah I gained a lot of respect for Caldwell after coming back form that hit.

TruthSeeker · Oct 2, 2006

I was a little surprised that was a flag, but definately feel that one was justified. One of the replays does indeed show a helmet to helmet collision, but it was very clear from all views that the receiver's head took the main part of the blow and that is a penalty in the NFL. The launching by the DB only underscored it.

pkb · Oct 2, 2006

Whether or not it was a blow to the head, it was clearly unneccessary roughness, and that's what was called.

The safety lined up the receiver and hit high with the shoulder while the receiver was extended---that's against the rules and will be called 80% of the time or more. And should be.

There was no reason for that hit as it was---there was an easy angle to hit lower or not launch up and in with the location of the hit. The rules are designed to penalize exactly what occurred there, so I don't really see the issue....it's a rules committee complaint if anything.

They didn't call blow to the head, and I didn't see one on the replay, though there was some incidental arm-to-head contact

Cicero · Oct 2, 2006

pkb said:
Whether or not it was a blow to the head, it was clearly unneccessary roughness, and that's what was called.

The safety lined up the receiver and hit high with the shoulder while the receiver was extended---that's against the rules and will be called 80% of the time or more. And should be.

There was no reason for that hit as it was---there was an easy angle to hit lower or not launch up and in with the location of the hit. The rules are designed to penalize exactly what occurred there, so I don't really see the issue....it's a rules committee complaint if anything.

They didn't call blow to the head, and I didn't see one on the replay, though there was some incidental arm-to-head contact

I didn't see helemt to helmet but I did see the arm. Either way they need to call those kind of hits consistently. Bodden hit Chad Johnson in the chin with his helmet a few weeks ago with no call and last week Henry got hit in that exact manner with no call vs. the Steelers. The league really needs to clarify the rules on this.

CTPatsFan · Oct 2, 2006

Murphys95 said:
It's your rose colored glasses. Envision Rodney as the hitter and then go from there.

It's the saftey's job to separate the ball from the receiver - he did just that with the hit on Reche. I don't think the helmet to helmet was intentional, just a result of a split second play.

That being said the penalty flag was fair, and I expect Kaeshviharn to be fined.

Hey but Murph, if it was vice versa it would be ok

BTTA · Oct 2, 2006

Plain and simple - you can't launch into a reciever who is off the ground or otherwise unable to defend themselves. It doesn't have to be helmet to helmet.

grapedog · Oct 2, 2006

I'm in a toss up, while I would never want to see a player really, for the most part, get injured...i would be cheering our team for delivering that hit, even if it came at cost of a penalty. Giving receivers that fear of catching a ball definately helps the team that can instill it. It was pretty vicious, but I think if the shoe were on the other foot, i would be glad our player delivered the hit, as long as it didn't cause injury.

where to draw the line, that I do not know...

upstater1 · Oct 2, 2006

Why is everyone arguing over this? The referee this morning said in the Globe that the Cincy player launched himself into Caldwell. Whether it was helmet-to-helmet is immaterial. You can't launch yourself into the defender like that. I've seen this rule enforced multiple times.

Pats726 · Oct 2, 2006

upstater1 said:
Why is everyone arguing over this? The referee this morning said in the Globe that the Cincy player launched himself into Caldwell. Whether it was helmet-to-helmet is immaterial. You can't launch yourself into the defender like that. I've seen this rule enforced multiple times.

I agree...Wislon was called on that I think 2 years ago..It is a good rule...we do NOT want any more Stingleys...that is NOT part of the game..

D-cleater · Oct 2, 2006

I'm a long time Patriots fan and ofcourse I don't want to see anyone end up like Stingly.

That being said, I think it's a shame the way the official are softening the game, putting a skirt on the QB, and not letting players just play the game. Look at some of the ridiculous PI calls the last two denver games. It seriously disgusts me.

Golic is one of the few analysts that 'get it'. I'm not sure what the fans on this board would have the safety do against Caldwell or any other receiver who is running at a fulll sprint and about to catch the ball. There is something called momentum which dictates that the defender make contact with equal momentum, best done by leaving his feet and meeting the receiver high to disrupt the catch. If he hits him low he makes the tackle but the receiver makes the reception.

The broken tackle on Walker last week is a case in point, except the tackle was NOT made, even with help.

LA Pats Fan · Oct 2, 2006

We all had the benefit of instant - slow motion replay.

The Ref has to make his call real time.

We had calls just as close (harrison, wilson) go against us as well....

I'm Ron Borges? · Oct 2, 2006

Brownfan80 said:
I thought it was obviously a blow to the head. Helmet to helmet or not, you can't hit a defenseless reciever in the head.

Hit him in the head? Are you blind? He used his shoulder and hit him in the chest. My God, even after a great win like that some of you have to ruin it by crying about stuff and making up things that didn't happen. That wasn't even close. As a matter of fact, it was one of the worst missed calls regarding that stupid rule that I've seen. Defenseless receiver? Give me a freaking break. Chad Johnson got his head cracked against the Browns. Where was the flag on that play? Guess you missed that one, huh?

I'm Ron Borges? · Oct 2, 2006

D-cleater said:
I'm a long time Patriots fan and ofcourse I don't want to see anyone end up like Stingly.

That being said, I think it's a shame the way the official are softening the game, putting a skirt on the QB, and not letting players just play the game. Look at some of the ridiculous PI calls the last two denver games. It seriously disgusts me.

Golic is one of the few analysts that 'get it'. I'm not sure what the fans on this board would have the safety do against Caldwell or any other receiver who is running at a fulll sprint and about to catch the ball. There is something called momentum which dictates that the defender make contact with equal momentum, best done by leaving his feet and meeting the receiver high to disrupt the catch. If he hits him low he makes the tackle but the receiver makes the reception.

The broken tackle on Walker last week is a case in point, except the tackle was NOT made, even with help.

Very well put.

dhamz · Oct 2, 2006

D-cleater said:
I'm not sure what the fans on this board would have the safety do against Caldwell or any other receiver who is running at a fulll sprint and about to catch the ball. There is something called momentum which dictates that the defender make contact with equal momentum, best done by leaving his feet and meeting the receiver high to disrupt the catch. If he hits him low he makes the tackle but the receiver makes the reception.

And what you just described is a penalty and is called pretty consistently. Do they call it every time - no they let it go sometimes. Have they called it against the Pats in the past? Certainly.

BB has said in the past exactly what you are saying - he doesn't know what the DB is supposed to do other than let the guy catch the ball. It doesn't change that if you launch yourself and the ref in his judgement feels you have launched at a "defenseless WR" they throw the flag and you get 15 yards.

zippo59 · Oct 2, 2006

The hit on Chad Johnson was illegal, and proof of this is Bodden was fined. This penalty definitely needs to be called more consistently, but I agree with the premise.

I love hard hits but I really think something like that is excessive. The receiver is so vulnerable and I think the DB could still have hit him hard and jarred the ball lose without using such excessive force.

MrBigglesWorth · Oct 2, 2006

Brownfan80 said:
I thought it was obviously a blow to the head. Helmet to helmet or not, you can't hit a defenseless reciever in the head.

i thought it started as a shoulder and the helmet slid and eventually did make contact with caldwells helmet

Golic on ESPNR-Caldwell hit not illegal

On the Game Day Roster

In the Starting Line-Up

Rookie

On the Roster

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Supporter

Rookie

Rookie

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

He/Him

Practice Squad Player

Hall of Fame Poster

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Practice Squad Player

On the Game Day Roster

On the Game Day Roster

In the Starting Line-Up

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Similar threads