More great news for our 2011 Raiders pick

As much of a punchline JaMarcus Russell is, the Ravens secondary actually managed to make him look competent last week.

condon84 said:

Firing Cable might not be a good thing for us. If they hire an HC that can take advantage of the Raiders' defensive talents, then I don't see how they can't improve on their record. They've got some good defensive players over there and in the right system, they can minimize Russell's mistakes and let their defense and a running game win some games for them.

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I agree. I'm still hoping that Weird Uncle Al still keeps both Cable & JaMarcus.

JaMarcus Russell will never amount to anything other than an overweight and overpaid love-thy-self type.

Patspsycho said:

Cable had already correctly identified Russell as the weak link on the team and sought to bench him or find reasons for him not to play, as much as possible. Both Gradowski and Frye made the games competitive. Indeed, the game vs. the Ravens was quite competitive until Russell came into the game and turned the ball over twice. The man just doesn't know how to call the right protection. Balt went to disguise man over with fake zone, and he kept biting on it.

Compare:
J. Frye in 1st half: 18 for 25 for 180 yards, 1 TD, 0 turnovers.
Russell in 2nd half: 9 for 14, 102 yards, 1 interception, 1 fumble.

3rd down eff. took a nose-dive.

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You make some good points.

My concerns with the Raiders getting a new coach is two-fold:

First, they could get a defensive coach that can utilize the Raiders' talents on the defensive side. They have the personnel on that side of the ball that can carry that team. If you watch the Raider's games, their defensive gameplan predicated on their guys just being better than the other team's offensive players. The scheme was simple, they didn't try to confuse, they just lined up and played ball. Now imagine a defensive HC or the new HC bringing in a DC that can take that talent and putting them in a better position to make plays. We all saw Rex basically take the worst QB this side of Jamarcus and win 9 games. It's not far fetched to imagine a better defensive scheme carrying that team to more than 5 wins.

Second, when you watch the Raiders play, they either showed up and be competitive, or not even get off the bus mentally and get smoked. To me, that was a sign of the players not really buying into what Cable was selling. He couldn't get the consistent effort that some good coaches even on bad teams could get out of their teams. If you compare the way Mangini's players played for him to Cable's, you see a huge difference in both teams' efforts on gamedays. Even with a horrible QB in Cleveland, and infinitely less talent on both sides of the ball compared to the Raiders, the Browns showed up every game and played hard. If the new HC of the Raiders can be successful in selling to his players what he is all about, even with a horrible QB like Jamarcus, it's not unbelievable to think a team as talented as the Raiders playing hard all year can get more than 5 wins.

My point is: We knew what we were getting from Cable. An uninspring coach stuck in the same level. I don't see him getting any better and he might get worse. We could count on 4-6 wins from the Raiders with Cable next year with a decenT probability of them really tanking it. However, with a new HC, there's a chance that that person could hire better assistant coaches, come up with better schemes and take this talented Raiders team and win more than 5 games.

I'd rather stick with Cable.

mayoclinic said:

2011 is shaping up to be an excellent draft. Some prospects include (juniors with an *):

DT Marvin Austin, North Carolina

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Marvin Austin is a beast. I watch every UNC game I can and he is the real deal, awesome defensive player.

ausbacker, I know what you're saying but this is Al Davis. He would probably hire just another Tom Cable type, rather than pursuing a more universally recognized quality football coach.

I hope crazy Al hires Mike Leech.

Would anyone else, depending on how high the pick is, rather trade this pick? I mean, Brady is going to need to be resigned along with Wilfork and other players. Can we really afford a potential top 5, at worst, top 10 pick?

Edit, also, does anyone know what the process is in terms of the draft, if there's no 2011 season?

RxJock1120 said:

What difference does it make if it is a top 5 or a top 10 pick. BB will just trade down to the middle of the first round, for picks in the next draft. Which he will in turn use to trade into the draft following the next, and so on and so forth....(Yes I do remmember Mayo went #10)

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Yea, because all that trading that BB did to get us four 2nd picks and two 3rds last year as well as three 2nds in 2010 was a complete waste. Plus that
7th round pick we got trading down from #23 to #26 stinks too. You're right Chung, Butler, Vollmer, and Edelman show no promise. And Bill should have just ignored value when he traded our #1 in 2003 for Baltimore's #2 in 2003 and #1 in 2004, because Eugene Wilson didn't contribute to any Super Bowls, and Vince Wilfork has been a bust.

Meanwhile, back in reality, if BB sees the value, Julio Jones-the WR from Alabama-would be a great pick. He is the best college WR since Moss. Incredibly strong hands, great speed, fluid out of his cuts, no-diva attitude and an amazing blocker. He really attacks the ball in air, its amazing. Imagine Andre Johnson with Hines Ward intensity blocking DBs.

Underoath said:

Would anyone else, depending on how high the pick is, rather trade this pick? I mean, Brady is going to need to be resigned along with Wilfork and other players. Can we really afford a potential top 5, at worst, top 10 pick?

Edit, also, does anyone know what the process is in terms of the draft, if there's no 2011 season?

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A lot depends on (1) how high the pick is, (2) what the demand is, and (3) whether there is a 2011 salary cap.

There is a lot of talent likely to be at the top of the 2011 draft - potential franchise QBs in Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet (and possibly Andrew Luck, though that is unlikely), RB Mark Ingram, the most talented group of WRs in years (AJ Green, Julio Jones, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin), top 10 OT prospects (Clint Boling, Matt Reynolds), top 3-4 DEs (Cameron Heyward, Allen Bailey), pass rushers (Richard Quinn, possibly Aldon Smith and Greg Romeus), linebackers (Bruce Carter, possibly Travis Lewis) and secondary (Patrick Peterson). And that's assuming that Carlos Dunlap, Derrick Morgan and Rolando McClain all declare for 2010.

So a lot of options are available, depending on how those 3 variables sort out:

1. Trade back within the top 10 and still get an impact player. That would be ideal if we get a top 3 pick from Oakland and someone wants to trade up for one of the QBs, especially if there is a rookie salary cap. We could move into the 7-10 range and still get someone like CB Patrick Peterson, DE/OLB Richard Quinn, DE Cameron Heyward, or WR AJ Green. This would seem ideal.

2. Trade out of the top 10 to the 10-15 range where the cost is more reasonable, if there is no rookie salary cap. There should still be plenty of high quality prospects available, given the depth at the top of this draft.

3. Trade up with our own 1st round pick to get a second impact player. This could particularly be an option with WR, because there is so much depth at the position.

There should be plenty of attraction options any way you look at it.

One nice thing about this past season is that the Raiders finished ahead of the Chiefs. That means Oakland has two tougher games next year than they would have had they finished in 4th place. They play Miami rather than Buffalo at home, and are at Pittsburgh rather than at Cleveland. That's a potential two-game swing in their 2010 record, which could move that 2011 pick up several spots.

I still think we will trade that 2011 Raider pick for a #1 this year ...

Then ... we will trade out of the 1st round with our own pick.

JoePats said:

ausbacker, I know what you're saying but this is Al Davis. He would probably hire just another Tom Cable type, rather than pursuing a more universally recognized quality football coach.

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Like he has a chance of signing a quality coach. By definition, any coach that signs with Davis is a coach without any other options.

Raiders have so many questions to answer, too many holes to fill and (frankly) don't have the management to get the job done in the foreseeable future. Firing another head coach (again)? Well, the prospects of Al Davis firing Tom Cable is only the introduction of the essay of how the Raiders will struggle early in another decade, similar to how they finished the last one.

Generally, I would enumerate the top three issues in a way to make a compelling and easy to follow, but the number of significant issues exceeds three and understanding them, isn't comparable to general relativity.

As mentioned, the firing of Tom Cable would encourage ESPN to refer the coaching changes in Oakland as a spinning top and not a carousel considering how quickly the make such changes. Kiffin seemed to get the respect of the offense, while Rob Ryan was slowly but surely making a difference on them defense after a failed attempt to install the 3-4 defense. Both of them out, Cable in and in much the same way of getting the job, he is going to lose the job.

Continuity?

Not in Oak-town.

Not to make excuses for 350 pound, 1st overall pick in the draft (no, not Russell Maryland), but how would you feel if you were Jamarcus and saw the circus show from behind the curtains? And don't mistake my words, Oakland is a circus and I am sure Jamarcus thinks he is the only sane one in the group.

I say this all the time, but you have to have a plan. There never seemed to be a plan as to how to bring Russell into the starting role, unless the plan was to give it to him as soon as he decided to sign his contract. Or unless the plan was to give him a different offensive coordinator every year, no blocking up front and having head coaches on hot seats. Honestly, at this point, it is a lost cause and the Raiders should take some blame and let him go.

The players they do need to keep are on the defensive side, if they want to remain competitive. Obviously they traded for Richard Seymour and he will be a free agent at season end, but they also have Thomas Howard and Kirk Morrison on the free agent list (correct me if I'm wrong). Both have been staples on the defensive side and, given their inability to attract free agents that want to win, it might be hard to keep them without using a franchise tag. And talking about staples, Sebastian Janokowski is a free agent and I just finished watching a Bengal team that learned how important it is to have a kicker that makes field goals (that isn't a prediction, just a statement of the obvious).

And assume it was a perfect world and Cable was retained, Jamarcus is released, and Seymour/Howard/Morrison/Jano are all re-signed, they still have to play the games on the schedule. And that brings me to a point that would had, generally, enumerated at the third spot.

The AFC South seems to be in the AFC West's future. Playing the Colts is one thing, but toss in the resurgent Titans, the tough Jags and the "almost playoff bound" Texans and a Raider fan is reconsidering season tickets (which they would do anyways). The Steelers and Dolphins only add to the storm of bad news the Raiders can expect, unless that is, the Steelers come to Oakland (where they just can't win).

Right about now, Raiders fans are hoping Brandon Marshall leaves Denver, Vincent Jackson signs in another division and Matt Cassell gets hurt in week one. The list of Raider hopes doesn't stop there, but I've wrote more than I wanted to (already).

All said, another brutal year for the Raiders in 2011... given the fact that they will fail in yet another draft to pick a group that can contribute quickly and will likely spend money on free agents that won't mean much in the long run.

mayoclinic said:

2011 is shaping up to be an excellent draft. Some prospects include (juniors with an *):

QB Jake Locker, Washington
QB Ryan Mallet, Arkansas
RB Ingram*, Alabama
WR Julio Jones*, Alabama
WR AJ Green*, Georgia
WR Michael Floyd*, Notre Dame
WR Jonathan Baldwin*, Pittsburgh
WR DeAndre Brown*, Southern Mississippi
TE Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame
OT Matt Reynolds, BYU
OT Clint Boling, Georgia
DE/DT Cameron Heyward, Ohio St.
DE/DT Allen Bailey, Miami
DT Marvin Austin, North Carolina
DE (?OLB) Richard Quinn*, North Carolina
DE Da'Quan Bowers*, Clemson
DE Adrian Clayborn, Iowa
LB Bruce Carter, North Carolina
LB Travis Lewis, Oklahaoma
CB Patrick Peterson*, LSU
CB Janoris Jenkins*, Florida

And that's not including some guys who are still undecided about 2010, such as DE's Derrick Morgan, Carlos Dunlap and Greg Romeus and S Earl Thomas.

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Admittedly, I don't have a wealth of knowledge in terms of college players, but it seems like every year people are saying, "Next year's draft class is going to be great!"

Every year...

Schmo said:

Admittedly, I don't have a wealth of knowledge in terms of college players, but it seems like every year people are saying, "Next year's draft class is going to be great!"

Every year...

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This year's class is shaping up to be pretty darn good. Next year looks to have better talent at the top, but won't be as deep.

This year will be better than it might be because many players will declare this year to get their big contracts before the league moves to a rookie slary scale,

mayoclinic said:

This year's class is shaping up to be pretty darn good. Next year looks to have better talent at the top, but won't be as deep.

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mgteich said:

This year will be better than it might be because many players will declare this year to get their big contracts before the league moves to a rookie slary scale,

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That is, if they do that.. either way it's a win-win scenario for us because if they do institute a rookie cap for next season, this draft will be so packed that the talent gets pushed down (e.g., our 3 round 2 picks) and next year we get a reasonable amount of debt for our educated gamble.