Chargers/Patriots...

jcdavey said:

again....you're 2-5 on the road

the game won't be played in NE

you barely beat the buffalo bills twice......

you lost to the jesters

you're 2-4 vs playoff teams assuming the ravens make it in

we're 4-2 vs playoff teams assuming the ravens make it in


you lost to the fn jets ...... did i already say that?


but all that aside, NE's always dangerous sure, i don't get the chest thumping though from a 2-5 road team, especially after what happened to you in new orleans

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Losing to the Jets is as relavent as the Chargers loss to Baltimore or denver.

Does New Orleans scare anyone AT THIS MOMENT?

You have to give SD the edge. However, on talent and coaching POTENTIAL; the Pats would get the edge. Therefore, it's about "putting it together".

I have a sneaky suspicion that BB and pats PLANNED to have the kind of year they did so they could surprise teams in the playoffs. I know it sounds crazy, but if the Patriots end up in the SB, you won't call me crazy!

Think about it...they went 17-0 upon entering the last SB and what good did it do them? Every team was geared up and knew they had to give their best of their best to have a chance at beating the Pats. By the time the Pats got to the SB, they were exhausted from intense and pressure.

Do you all recall "The Road to Perfection" on ESPN?

This year, teams will be thinking, "It's only the Patriots"

Yup, I think it was all part of a plan....

PatriotsReign said:

This year, teams will be thinking, "It's only the Patriots"

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That will not happen until BB and Brady are gone.

I do think that BB was conservative with the vets playing time and with injuries (which really isn't all that unusual), but playing possum with the league? That's a stretch.

jcdavey said:

yeah it seems like there is some chest thumping knowing you're going to need to go on the road for at least one game, and you're 2-5 on the road

i saw alot of this in 07 but at that time you guys were awesome, seeing it now i don't get it , especially looking at that road record

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Lets just completely leave out that 2 of those 5 road losses were in the first 5 weeks of the season... You know, when Brady was still uncomfortable in the pocket and still unsure of his knee...

The Saints game is a misnomer, as 63% of the saints yardage came from 7 plays out of 50 total plays (as did 21 of their points). Did NE get beat, absolutely, but to use that as a yardstick for things to come is ludicrous at best.

Too many people both here and abroad want to discount NE just because they're 2-5 on the road, and have been inconsistent. Don't count your chickens before they hatch... NE can just as easily go to SD and wreak havoc on the #2 seed as they can go there and get beat. To not believe that, shows a lack of respect for the talent on this team, and you should be ashamed to be a fan of football if you can't respect a team with this much talent.

I may really dislike Rivers and LT, for being the cry babies that they are... but I respect their talent all day long.

robertweathers said:

That will not happen until BB and Brady are gone.

I do think that BB was conservative with the vets playing time and with injuries (which really isn't all that unusual), but playing possum with the league? That's a stretch.

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Like I said...call me crazy now, but if we end up in the SB, you may wonder.

PatriotsReign said:

Like I said...call me crazy now, but if we end up in the SB, you may wonder.

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I'll call you crazy all day long You don't strategize to lose 5 games in a season... NE has been inconsistent, and Brady took 1/2 the year to get back into form. If NE does make it, it will be because they worked their arses off for the opportunity, and beat some really good teams in the playoffs... just like every other year they've made it.

Too many damn conspiracies about the mind of BB.

PatriotsReign said:

Like I said...call me crazy now, but if we end up in the SB, you may wonder.

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I'm not going to call you crazy. I will call you wrong.

Its one thing to be mindful of snaps counts, practice time, be ultra-conservative with injuries so players can stay fresh and possibly hold back on the playbook a little. That is all possible and there is evidence to support this (except the playbook)

It's another thing entirely to play possum or sand bag games just to maintain the element of surprise down the road.

The get to the SB (and win it!) it'll be because they are playing confident, focused, tough football and maybe a few breaks go their way.

robertweathers said:

Its one thing to be mindful of snaps counts, practice time so and be a ultra-conservative with injuries so players can stay fresh and possibly hold back on the playbook a little.

It's another thing entirely to play possum or sand bag games just to maintain the element of surprise down the road.

The get to the SB (and win it!) it'll be because they are playing confident, focused, tough football and maybe a few breaks go their way.

I'm not going to call you crazy. I will call you wrong.

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We'll see mon frere....it'll all come out in Bill's book once he retires!

SoCalPatsfan90 said:

Lets just completely leave out that 2 of those 5 road losses were in the first 5 weeks of the season... You know, when Brady was still uncomfortable in the pocket and still unsure of his knee...

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Although I agree with the premise that the Patriots were vulnerable early because of Brady's come back from that devestating knee injury, and he has since shown marked improvement, I think he still has a point. Road games have been a bigger problem for the Patriots this season than in seasons past. We'll see if the problems extend into the post season or not. To be fair he did say that the Patriots would still be dangerous in the playoffs.

The Saints game is a misnomer, as 63% of the saints yardage came from 7 plays out of 50 total plays (as did 21 of their points). Did NE get beat, absolutely, but to use that as a yardstick for things to come is ludicrous at best.

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Come on now, really? It certainly something to consider, definitely not "ludicrous at best".

Too many people both here and abroad want to discount NE just because they're 2-5 on the road, and have been inconsistent.

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Of course people are going to discount them because of those things. They'd be foolish not to. It doesn't mean they don't respect the players and the coach. It just means that there are signs of vulnerability when you see those characteristics in a team, especially if that team will have to play at least one and probably two road games to get to the SB. Now you can argue that there are reasons for those stats that no longer exist but until the Patriots go on the road and play well in the playoffs it is something an objective person would have to consider.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch... NE can just as easily go to SD and wreak havoc on the #2 seed as they can go there and get beat.

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Well, I think it will be harder to go there and beat the #2 seed rather than be beaten if only because history shows it to be harder. But no one is "counting" their "chickens". Virtually nothing but respect for the Patriots on the CMB. There are some idiots guaranteeing victory and such, but they're just idiots. Nochickens being counted here, that's for sure.

To not believe that, shows a lack of respect for the talent on this team, and you should be ashamed to be a fan of football if you can't respect a team with this much talent.

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Dude, he said the Patriots would be dangerous in the playoffs, that IS respect. "Ashamed to be a fan of football", really? Wow.

I may really dislike Rivers and LT, for being the cry babies that they are... but I respect their talent all day long.

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Although I can see why you would call LT a "cry baby" I defy you to give me an example of Rivers being one.

patsfaninpittsburgh said:

Losing to the Jets is as relavent as the Chargers loss to Baltimore or denver.

Does New Orleans scare anyone AT THIS MOMENT?

You have to give SD the edge. However, on talent and coaching POTENTIAL; the Pats would get the edge. Therefore, it's about "putting it together".

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As of now, the Eagles are the best team in the NFC - McNabb is playing the best football of his career, he and Reid now have alot of young weapons they can utilize(Jackson, Maclin, Westbrook, Weaver, McCoy, Celek, and Vick). And while their D has tackling issues(they have trouble stopping the run), they nonetheless do a very good job getting after the QB, and they are ball hawks, especially in the secondary. Their new DC, Sean McDermott, has actually been even better than Jim Johnson. Although losing their starting center, Jamaal Jackson(a former UDFA who's very underrated) is big, they shouldn't miss a step with Nick Cole, and Cole's backup at RG, Max Jean-Gilles, is pretty decent.

If Philly wins in Dallas this weekend(which I think they will), then they will have locked up the #2 seed and have that bye(Reid is undefeated coming off the bye).

As for other NFC teams - the Cards and Packers are quietly playing well. I think both teams have what it takes to knock off New Orleans in the 1st round. And regardless of what happens this weekend, I think Dallas has the potential to make alot of noise in the playoffs.(Wade Phillips and Tony Romo will finally get that goose egg off their backs)

Oh - the Vikings are done - too many problems all around.

Maybe we should be more concerned with our first opponent before we worry about our second one.

pao said:

Road games have been a bigger problem for the Patriots this season than in seasons past. We'll see if the problems extend into the post season or not. To be fair he did say that the Patriots would still be dangerous in the playoffs.

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While the bottom line is wins and losses, and I am never a fan of the "what if" scenarios as that cuts both ways, I am not as concerned about this road issue as others seem to be.

It matters when you play teams. Given injuries, confidence, "swagger", wear, and any other number of relevant considerations, teams are tougher or weaker at various points of the season. The "strength of schedule" metric at the end of the season is a poor indicator as teams can come out of the gate fast and crash, and others crash out of the gate and then get hot. The Pats played Denver when it was getting huge points for defense and surprised many, and the Pats' offense was trying to find a receiver other than Welker and Moss at the same time Brady was trying to find his form. Not an apology for the loss, just an explanation. The Pats ridiculously played 5 straight games against teams without a loss and lost two road games in that series. No team in the NFL had to deal with that.

The Pats won the game against Tampa Bay in England, but that somehow was not a road game. They then played road games against Indy and New Orleans, teams also undefeated and rolling over everything in their path. Indy won with a miracle comeback. The Saints laid the smackdown on the Pats. The last road loss was Miami, which frequently wins one game per season against the Pats.

With the Saints loss, the team was flat. It had suffered a traumatic loss in Indy to a major rival and then beaten the Jets, the biggest divisional rival, paying it back for the theater of the first game. The Pats went on the road against a non-conference opponent and I suspect after two emotionally draining games just phoned it in. Excluding that loss, the other 4 losses were by a grand total of 12 points. As such, the 21-point loss to the team that just dropped a game to the Bucs sounds like a pretty big anomaly to me.

I expect the Pats rank up there at the top of the level of difficulty in road opponents. The plus to that is if the playoffs require road appearances, no team has had to deal with that level of adversity as the Pats, thus no team is as prepared to do so at this point in the season.

MassPats38 said:

While the bottom line is wins and losses, and I am never a fan of the "what if" scenarios as that cuts both ways, I am not as concerned about this road issue as others seem to be.

It matters when you play teams. Given injuries, confidence, "swagger", wear, and any other number of relevant considerations, teams are tougher or weaker at various points of the season. The "strength of schedule" metric at the end of the season is a poor indicator as teams can come out of the gate fast and crash, and others crash out of the gate and then get hot. The Pats played Denver when it was getting huge points for defense and surprised many, and the Pats' offense was trying to find a receiver other than Welker and Moss at the same time Brady was trying to find his form. Not an apology for the loss, just an explanation. The Pats ridiculously played 5 straight games against teams without a loss and lost two road games in that series. No team in the NFL had to deal with that.

The Pats won the game against Tampa Bay in England, but that somehow was not a road game. They then played road games against Indy and New Orleans, teams also undefeated and rolling over everything in their path. Indy won with a miracle comeback. The Saints laid the smackdown on the Pats. The last road loss was Miami, which frequently wins one game per season against the Pats.

With the Saints loss, the team was flat. It had suffered a traumatic loss in Indy to a major rival and then beaten the Jets, the biggest divisional rival, paying it back for the theater of the first game. The Pats went on the road against a non-conference opponent and I suspect after two emotionally draining games just phoned it in. Excluding that loss, the other 4 losses were by a grand total of 12 points. As such, the 21-point loss to the team that just dropped a game to the Bucs sounds like a pretty big anomaly to me.

I expect the Pats rank up there at the top of the level of difficulty in road opponents. The plus to that is if the playoffs require road appearances, no team has had to deal with that level of adversity as the Pats, thus no team is as prepared to do so at this point in the season.

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Excellent post. Have to say I agree that the Patriots are a team no other team should want to face in the playoffs, they are going to be tough to beat. However, whoever does face them, if they can beat them, advancing in the playoffs will be all the more sweeter.

pao said:

Although I agree with the premise that the Patriots were vulnerable early because of Brady's come back from that devestating knee injury, and he has since shown marked improvement, I think he still has a point. Road games have been a bigger problem for the Patriots this season than in seasons past. We'll see if the problems extend into the post season or not. To be fair he did say that the Patriots would still be dangerous in the playoffs.


Come on now, really? It certainly something to consider, definitely not "ludicrous at best".

Of course people are going to discount them because of those things. They'd be foolish not to. It doesn't mean they don't respect the players and the coach. It just means that there are signs of vulnerability when you see those characteristics in a team, especially if that team will have to play at least one and probably two road games to get to the SB. Now you can argue that there are reasons for those stats that no longer exist but until the Patriots go on the road and play well in the playoffs it is something an objective person would have to consider.

Well, I think it will be harder to go there and beat the #2 seed rather than be beaten if only because history shows it to be harder. But no one is "counting" their "chickens". Virtually nothing but respect for the Patriots on the CMB. There are some idiots guaranteeing victory and such, but they're just idiots. Nochickens being counted here, that's for sure.

Dude, he said the Patriots would be dangerous in the playoffs, that IS respect. "Ashamed to be a fan of football", really? Wow.

Although I can see why you would call LT a "cry baby" I defy you to give me an example of Rivers being one.

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Actually, if you read his posts, he says they're always dangerous, but then continues on using the misleading 2-5 record on the road as a yardstick for things to come.

I haven't been to the chargers board, so I don't know what they're saying. I only know what jc was saying, because he posted it here... And he is who I was responding to. Something you're doing, is taking certain sections of my post out of context by splitting up the quotes (with regards to the ashamed comment), and I'd respectfully ask you to stop doing that.

It IS ludicrous at best to use the Saints game as a yardstick for NE's road games in the future. Which he's essentially trying to do by pointing out that game specifically. Which was an epic failure on 7 of 50 plays, but he's only looking at the results, and not the rest of the game.

He, and apparently you, aren't looking at the whole picture, with the young DEF, the QB coming off of major surgery, sifting through receivers like Galloway who cost us the jets game etc... There are a WHOLE host of reasons that need to be considered instead of just looking at the 2-5 record and making an immediate judgment that NE WILL suffer on road games because they HAVE suffered on road games. You can look at them, but you can't make a legitimate correlation to future performance.

It absolutely IS foolish to discount a team who has been consistently improving (with admitted bumps along that road) week after week, and is a division winner. People try and discount NE based on the division their in, playing and barely beating the bills, jets and phins etc... I do recall SD struggling mightily against the raiders in week 1, so we should discount you on your close victories too right? And just chalk up 5 of your wins to a really weak division too huh? Didn't think so, so why do it to NE?

NE came in in 2006 to San Diego, where both teams played HORRIBLY and upset the #1 seed. It's hard for ANYONE to go on the road in the playoffs and win, so your assertion that it would likely be more difficult is true, but not true enough to discount the teams past history in situations that they may find themselves in this season.

Paying lip service by making one VERY general statement that the Patriots are always dangerous, followed up by nothing but negative nancy statements isn't respect. And the last part of that is taken way out of context, which I already addressed earlier in this post.

As for Rivers, the reason I think he's cry baby is how I've seen him behave on the field... When things don't go his way, or he doesn't get calls that he thinks he should, he seems to get really whiny based on facial expressions (so I could be wrong, but he seems to throw tantrums on field like my 2y/o does). I don't recall any truly whiny statements he's made (which is why I don't like LT).

So feel free to question my statements, but do NOT partially quote me and then take the text out of context. Also expect a rebuttle if I believe you're incorrect in your assertions.

SoCal Pmen said:

I think it will also play out that way. This time around it will be a lot more difficult for NE with LT and Gates healthy and Rivers having established a better chemistry with Floyd and Jackson.

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It could end up a shootout with either team pulling it out at the end with a field goal. But, LT is NOT a factor anymore, the Patriots have to contain that running game which isn't that good anymore as it has in recent years and bring the pressure to Philip Rivers just as Dallas did to Brees.

MassPats38 said:

While the bottom line is wins and losses, and I am never a fan of the "what if" scenarios as that cuts both ways, I am not as concerned about this road issue as others seem to be.

It matters when you play teams. Given injuries, confidence, "swagger", wear, and any other number of relevant considerations, teams are tougher or weaker at various points of the season. The "strength of schedule" metric at the end of the season is a poor indicator as teams can come out of the gate fast and crash, and others crash out of the gate and then get hot. The Pats played Denver when it was getting huge points for defense and surprised many, and the Pats' offense was trying to find a receiver other than Welker and Moss at the same time Brady was trying to find his form. Not an apology for the loss, just an explanation. The Pats ridiculously played 5 straight games against teams without a loss and lost two road games in that series. No team in the NFL had to deal with that.

The Pats won the game against Tampa Bay in England, but that somehow was not a road game. They then played road games against Indy and New Orleans, teams also undefeated and rolling over everything in their path. Indy won with a miracle comeback. The Saints laid the smackdown on the Pats. The last road loss was Miami, which frequently wins one game per season against the Pats.

With the Saints loss, the team was flat. It had suffered a traumatic loss in Indy to a major rival and then beaten the Jets, the biggest divisional rival, paying it back for the theater of the first game. The Pats went on the road against a non-conference opponent and I suspect after two emotionally draining games just phoned it in. Excluding that loss, the other 4 losses were by a grand total of 12 points. As such, the 21-point loss to the team that just dropped a game to the Bucs sounds like a pretty big anomaly to me.

I expect the Pats rank up there at the top of the level of difficulty in road opponents. The plus to that is if the playoffs require road appearances, no team has had to deal with that level of adversity as the Pats, thus no team is as prepared to do so at this point in the season.

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This is pretty much what I was trying to point out. But apparently it came across differently. The easiest thing to look at is ones record... but there are too many nuances to look at when you get under the hood of said record, to use that record as the true measuring stick of a team.

jcdavey said:

yeah it seems like there is some chest thumping knowing you're going to need to go on the road for at least one game, and you're 2-5 on the road

i saw alot of this in 07 but at that time you guys were awesome, seeing it now i don't get it , especially looking at that road record

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Chest thumping? There's you trolling, but not much beyond that. When this:

redsx8827 said:

They barely beat cincy, nyg, philly, dallas...lost to denver, pitt, balt...

they are really no different than this patriots team. I think the patriots are better than all those teams they barely beat -- cincy, nyg, philly, dallas -- and so that gives New England a great chance to beat them.

I don't think any team is above another team, which is why the pats have as good of a shot as they did in 01 and 03 to win it all.

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From a poster with 3 posts on the site is what you come up with for "chest thumping", the issue isn't Patriots fans. The issue is you.

Two factors will help SD this time around -if- the Pats end up playing them (still have to finalize the seedings, and the Pats have to win the first round game).

The first is the memory of 2006; no way the Bolts are going to take the Pats lightly this time around. it's a somewhat similar scenario to that one, though I think the 2009 Pats are better than their 2006 counterparts.

The second factor is the Pats' young defense. The defense has lost a lot of veteran leaders the past year or 2, and I think that stuff shows up the most when on the road in a hostile environment. Hopefully the experiences of the Denver and New Orleans games have toughened up the team somewhat - hard to imagine any more hyped fanbases than those 2 were for a regular season game.

All that being said, the Pats didn't have Moss or Welker in 2006. So I'm cautiously optimistic that TB and company can score enough to keep them in the game with SD.

MoneyFX said:

It could end up a shootout with either team pulling it out at the end with a field goal. But, LT is NOT a factor anymore, the Patriots have to contain that running game which isn't that good anymore as it has in recent years and bring the pressure to Philip Rivers just as Dallas did to Brees.

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The 2009 SD defense is not as good as the 2006 defense.

The receivers are obviously better.

However, while people get on Rivers for personal behavior, having him as the team leader is infinately better than having a "classy" LT or "Lights Out". With Rivers in charge, they just seem to be more disciplined and focused. That's why I would rate them more dangerous.

SoCalPatsfan90 said:

Actually, if you read his posts, he says they're always dangerous, but then continues on using the misleading 2-5 record on the road as a yardstick for things to come.

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Actually what he has said was that the Patriots are dangerous BUT he doesn't understand the "chest thumping" considering the 2-5 road record AND what happened in NO. Now I don't agree that anyone here is chest thumping (maybe a few) but to say the 2-5 road record and NO game is misleading as to the future road game possibilities is simply your opinion backed by your observations (I actually agree with you, doesn't make us both right...yet). If the Patriots win at SD and at Indy then you can say that the road record was misleading and have it be more than just your opinion, imo.

I haven't been to the chargers board, so I don't know what they're saying. I only know what jc was saying, because he posted it here... And he is who I was responding to. Something you're doing, is taking certain sections of my post out of context by splitting up the quotes (with regards to the ashamed comment), and I'd respectfully ask you to stop doing that.

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How did I take your post out of context? It's beside the point anyway. Nothing he wrote should make him be "ashamed to be a fan". Good grief.

It IS ludicrous at best to use the Saints game as a yardstick for NE's road games in the future. Which he's essentially trying to do by pointing out that game specifically. Which was an epic failure on 7 of 50 plays, but he's only looking at the results, and not the rest of the game.

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I just don't see how you can just throw the NO game out the window. It happened, it can happen again. Do I think it will? No. But to say it is "ludicrous" to consider is just not right. Agree to disagree on this one.

He, and apparently you, aren't looking at the whole picture, with the young DEF, the QB coming off of major surgery, sifting through receivers like Galloway who cost us the jets game etc... There are a WHOLE host of reasons that need to be considered instead of just looking at the 2-5 record and making an immediate judgment that NE WILL suffer on road games because they HAVE suffered on road games. You can look at them, but you can't make a legitimate correlation to future performance.

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My understanding of his comments is that NE fans should not be "chest thumping" about their chances when you consider their road record. Now I didn't notice anyone "chest thumping" but I do understand why he would consider the Patriots road record when trying to predict what COULD happen the rest of the year. You obviously disagree. That is the nature of message boards. My opinion? Pretty close to yours actually. The Patriots have improved on the road through out the year and is a team to be reckoned with in the playoffs...at home OR on the road.

It absolutely IS foolish to discount a team who has been consistently improving (with admitted bumps along that road) week after week, and is a division winner.

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Again, this is your opinion. I don't think that it is foolish for people to question how well the Patriots will play on the road when looking at the stats. Having said that I believe anyone looking at the Patriots' road record should do so with the qualifiers you spell out. Am I one that thinks the Patriots will do poorly when they come to SD for the divisional round based on thier road record? Nope. I think they bring their A game and it will be a battle.

People try and discount NE based on the division their in, playing and barely beating the bills, jets and phins etc... I do recall SD struggling mightily against the raiders in week 1, so we should discount you on your close victories too right? And just chalk up 5 of your wins to a really weak division too huh? Didn't think so, so why do it to NE?

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I am not one that discounts the Chargers OR the Patriots for winning while belonging to a "weak" division. Division games are usually tough no matter how poor of a record one of the teams playing may have. Don't know why you are asking me these questions. I never have said the Patriots should be discounted because of their division opponents.

NE came in in 2006 to San Diego, where both teams played HORRIBLY and upset the #1 seed. It's hard for ANYONE to go on the road in the playoffs and win, so your assertion that it would likely be more difficult is true, but not true enough to discount the teams past history in situations that they may find themselves in this season.

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Again, I've never said differently. In fact I posted earlier that the toughness of TB and BB's genius in the playoffs are big reasons why the Chargers should fear them.

As for Rivers, the reason I think he's cry baby is how I've seen him behave on the field... When things don't go his way, or he doesn't get calls that he thinks he should, he seems to get really whiny based on facial expressions (so I could be wrong, but he seems to throw tantrums on field like my 2y/o does). I don't recall any truly whiny statements he's made (which is why I don't like LT).

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I believe you are wrong about Rivers (not about LT, he has been a bit of a cry baby in the past). Whatever.

So feel free to question my statements, but do NOT partially quote me and then take the text out of context. Also expect a rebuttle if I believe you're incorrect in your assertions.

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Show me where I took something out of context and I'll apologise, until then I stand by my statements. As far as expecting rebuttal, well, that's the reason we are all here right? To discuss football and our differences? That's the way I look at it.