RUMOR: Gorin Traded to Arizona????

I assume that means the Pats have even more salary cap space now?

Jacky Roberts said:

I assume that means the Pats have even more salary cap space now?

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Not much, Brandon's extension was on the cheap, it was variable based on starting time, but not expensive by any means.

Box_O_Rocks said:

Not much, Brandon's extension was on the cheap, it was variable based on starting time, but not expensive by any means.

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Yeah, we gain about $450K if I'm reading Miguel's page right (add lose $133K next year).

To put this into the proper context, What did the pats get from the Browns for Tucker in the way of compensation?

GraftonPatsFan said:

To put this into the proper context, What did the pats get from the Browns for Tucker in the way of compensation?

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That was said to be a conditional 7th (7th or nothing).

BelichickFan said:

Yeah, we gain about $450K if I'm reading Miguel's page right (add lose $133K next year).

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You are reading it wrong. When a player is traded, any remaining signing bonus amortization is immediately accelerated into the current year. There is no carrying it over to the next year.

The Patriots gain about 68K on the cap with moving Mills up onto the top 51.

BelichickFan said:

That was said to be a conditional 7th (7th or nothing).

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I believe that you are incorrect on this. I believe it was done the same way. A 7th that could be upgraded depending on whether Tucker became the starter.

DaBruinz said:

You are reading it wrong. When a player is traded, any remaining signing bonus amortization is immediately accelerated into the current year. There is no carrying it over to the next year.

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Oh, I thought trades and cuts had the same salary cap implications so I was going by the columns for after 6/1/06. Obviously I could be wrong though.

Belichick fan is correct.

Remember the Bethel/Sullivan trade?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/6-1-06through6-15-06.htm

POSTED 10:39 a.m. EDT; LAST UPDATED 1:10 p.m. EDT, June 7, 2006​

NEW POST-JUNE 1 RULE CONFIRMED​

On Tuesday, we cited a league source for the proposition that the recent trade of 2003 first-day draft busts between the Saints and Pats would not trigger the acceleration of any bonus amounts that otherwise would have been allocated to future league years. The former rule requiring full acceleration of all unallocated bonus money, per the source, has been revised to permit trades occurring after June 1 to be treated in the same manner as contract terminations occurring after June 1.​

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello has confirmed that the rule has changed. "The new rule is in effect," Aiello wrote in a Wednesday morning e-mail. "If the trade occurs after June 1, the assigning club's signing bonus acceleration (if any) is postponed until the first day of the 2007 league year. The club would continue to bear the cap charge for the current year's prorated signing bonus (this is not considered acceleration) plus any amounts that have already been earned under the 2006 contract."​

For example, if a player signed in 2005 a four-year deal with a $4 million signing bonus, a trade of that player after June 1, 2006 would result in a $1 million cap charge for 2006 and a $2 million cap charge in 2007. Under the old rule, a trade occurring at any time in 2006 would have resulted in a $3 million cap hit in 2006.​

Just how obscure is this new rule? The guys who get paid by the NFL to write about the sport don't even know about it. ​

In an item posted by Pat Kirwan of NFL.com on June 6 regarding the Pats-Saints trade, Kirwan states that "[t]rades are considered the same as a termination before June 1, so the Patriots must absorb the remaining bonus now." ​

Should the guys who get paid by the NFL to write about the sport know about this tweak to the rules? That's a call that the folks who sign the checks need to make.​

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DaBruinz said:

We're more than 2 up on draft picks. The Pats will be getting 4 comp picks for next year as well.

By my counts, that gives the Pats 13 draft picks for next year.

I would love the Pats to trade Branch to someone like the Eagles, Seahawks, Lions or Bears. In fact, If the Pats traded Branch for Muhammed, I'd be very happy.

Heck, maybe the Pats can trade Branch for Santana Moss. I think that Moss would be great to have on the Pats.....

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Awesome point. I had pipe dreams of getting Muhammed when he went to Chicago. He would fit in very well.

Brady'sButtBoy said:

In BB we trust, but he hardly hosed the Cardinals on this one. Look at it this way - how much better is Ashworth? He went and got a multi-million dollar deal from the Seahawks, he's got to be worth much more than a 7th to sign that kind of deal and he's maybe a smidge better than Gorin. This trade wasn't some of the Patriot's best work no matter how you slice it up.

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Actually, I think Ashworth was much better than Gorin. Gorin's been repeatedly referred to as a "starter," but that's totally misleading. To the best of my knowledge he's never been better than fourth on the OT depth chart except for injuries:
2004 - Light-Klemm-Ashworth-Gorin
2005 - Light-Kaczur-Ashworth-Gorin

Anyway, so much for "Dante clearly thinks better of him than we do." You don't trade for a 7th rounder unless the guy was headed for the waiver wire. So now...dare I say it...my irrational-optimism pet Wesley Britt is a Patriot? (Don't be giving me any Randy Hand now....)

pats1 said:

Belichick fan is correct.

Remember the Bethel/Sullivan trade?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/6-1-06through6-15-06.htm

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Thanks Pat1. I do stand corrected. I didn't realize that the rule had been changed.

The fact that Belichick and Dante have obvious confidence in the young guys is more exciting to me than what we're getting in the trade. The pick is fine but knowing that they like O'Callaghan, likely Britt and that Kaczur could be on his way back is way better.

Question

Amnorix said:

I think this is a VERY strong sign that Light is healthy, O'Callaghan is performing well, and Kaczur is close to returning.

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Let us surely hope so.

The nice thing about the Gorin departure is that I have nothing bad to say about Gorin. He did his best, contributed to a Super Bowl. Good luck, Brandon!

I would be thrilled if he gets us a 3rd, happy if a 4th, satisfied if a 5th, disappointed if only a 6th round pick.

Question: Is the number of the pick determined and just not public knowledge yet, or do they decide at some future date what round to compensate us in. (If so, what if the two teams don't agree on fair value later? Mustn't there be some algorithm like "if he starts 8 games, it moves up to a 4th" or some such?)

PromisedLand said:

This probably also means Kascar is close to returning.

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I don't think NASCAR will ever leave us, actually.

patchick said:

Gorin's been repeatedly referred to as a "starter," but that's totally misleading. To the best of my knowledge he's never been better than fourth on the OT depth chart except for injuries:

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Wouldn't it be nice of for once all those O-line injuries did us some good? Now we can bill Gorin as a Super Bowl starter and get something for him. A true silver lining!

BelichickFan said:

The fact that Belichick and Dante have obvious confidence in the young guys is more exciting to me than what we're getting in the trade. The pick is fine but knowing that they like O'Callaghan, likely Britt and that Kaczur could be on his way back is way better.

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I agree. Getting something for Gorin is a great bonus. If he becomes a 6th rounder, we've just been able to turn an undrafted player into a draft pick either to use as a pick or as part of a trade. Brilliant.

Edit: I should say that he was a player that was not drafted by us. I just read an article that says he was drafted by the chargers in the 7th round. Either way, it's still like getting something for nothing considering how deep we are at OL.

DaBruinz said:

We're more than 2 up on draft picks. The Pats will be getting 4 comp picks for next year as well.

By my counts, that gives the Pats 13 draft picks for next year.

I would love the Pats to trade Branch to someone like the Eagles, Seahawks, Lions or Bears. In fact, If the Pats traded Branch for Muhammed, I'd be very happy.

Heck, maybe the Pats can trade Branch for Santana Moss. I think that Moss would be great to have on the Pats.....

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I'm trying to figure out where the 4 comp picks are coming from, because I can't make it balance that way:

Vinatieri - Certainly
Givens - Definitely
Ashworth - Probable
McGinest - No, he was released, not an UFA

Anyone else will be offset by the signings of Caldwell, Warfield (if he makes the cut) and Seau. Seau may in fact cancel out Ashworth from the picture, although I think the difference in contract sizes will lead to a 6th or 7th rounder anyway.

Am I missing something?

Edited to add that the premise is still true. Even with only two comp picks, as long as Gorin and Tucker fetch something that will give NE 4 extra day two picks. Givens may even lead to an extra 3rd. This team always finds a way to position itself to be in the driver's seat come draft day.

Oswlek said:

I'm trying to figure out where the 4 comp picks are coming from, because I can't make it balance that way:

Vinatieri - Certainly
Givens - Definitely
Ashworth - Probable
McGinest - No, he was released, not an UFA

Anyone else will be offset by the signings of Caldwell, Warfield (if he makes the cut) and Seau. Seau may in fact cancel out Ashworth from the picture, although I think the difference in contract sizes will lead to a 6th or 7th rounder anyway.

Am I missing something?

Edited to add that the premise is still true. Even with only two comp picks, as long as Gorin and Tucker fetch something that will give NE 4 extra day two picks. Givens may even lead to an extra 3rd. This team always finds a way to position itself to be in the driver's seat come draft day.

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You forgot Andre Davis, who signed a relatively lucrative contract with Buffalo. Also, I believe that Warfield and Seau signed after the cutoff date for being included in the formula, so they would not count against us.

Oswlek said:

I'm trying to figure out where the 4 comp picks are coming from, because I can't make it balance that way:

Vinatieri - Certainly
Givens - Definitely
Ashworth - Probable
McGinest - No, he was released, not an UFA

Anyone else will be offset by the signings of Caldwell, Warfield (if he makes the cut) and Seau. Seau may in fact cancel out Ashworth from the picture, although I think the difference in contract sizes will lead to a 6th or 7th rounder anyway.

Am I missing something?

Edited to add that the premise is still true. Even with only two comp picks, as long as Gorin and Tucker fetch something that will give NE 4 extra day two picks. Givens may even lead to an extra 3rd. This team always finds a way to position itself to be in the driver's seat come draft day.

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I don't thing we get anything for UFA lost. Maybe Miguel needs to set the record straight.