Do We Need: CB, SS, FS, swing DB?

mgteich · Apr 6, 2009

I could see us drafting zero, one or two defensive backs, but I don't see any real need. For the record I would draft at least one safety because of the value likely to be available at 47, 58. and perhaps even at 89.
==========================================
DO WE NEED A CORNER?
1) We are certainly set for 2009. Belichick took care of that with the signing of Springs and Bodden. This board wanted Wheatley to start in 2008 based on his preseason play. Wilhite is a decent nickel and was starting by year's end and was playing solid special teams.
2) I would think that we are set for 2010 also. Wheatley and Wilhite are our developing prospects, and they are progressing. There is no reason to add another youngster. Hobbs will play 2010 unless there is a new CBA. Springs can start or backup as needed. If need be, we can add a veteran in 2010.
3) There aren't any top corners that we just must have. The value is not there since there are no top corners. All will be overvalued. I would expect that six safeties will be better values. I expect there to be a higher valued safeties until our list of six top safeties is exhausted: Chung, Delmas, Johnson, Moore, Smith, and Vaughn.

DO WE NEED A STRONG SAFETY?
The need is not there. We have a reasonable backup in Williams who is a top special teamer, exactly what we need at this roster spot.

DO WE NEED A FREE SAFETY?
The need is not there. Springs and Spann are fine as backups.

BOTTOM LINE
I still see the same value as I did a couple of months ago: Moore and Johnson. Look at the mocks. I still think that they provide the best value and would be solid patriot picks.

14thDragon · Apr 6, 2009

I think the secondary abounds with oppurtunities to upgrade.

Corner: With Samuel gone, the secondary lost its elite player and the group as a whole went from average to bad. That viod has yet to be filled. The current FA group brought in improve the back-end of the CB position but do little to replace the gap at the number one spot. Getting an elite or even a possibly elite CB going into the future is a glaring need. Wheatley and Whilhite have shown the promise to be good 2 and 3 CB but may not be true shut-down corners. They will undoubtedly improve with experience but adding more talent will not go to waste. In my opinion, the pass defense of the Team as Whole is improved by the upgrades over, O'Neal and hopefully Hobbs, and will improve again with a consitent pass rush; however the defense still lacks a CB that can win one-on-one with most #1 WR.

Free Safety: At present the FS is Sanders with back-up coming from Springs and possibly Spann. None of these options really inspires a lot of confidence. Adding a true play-making FS would shore up the middle of the field greatly.

Strong Safety: Merriwether has surprisingly done well at the SS position, I had him pegged as centerfield type of FS. But the loss of Harrison still shows in the middle. Tight-ends, running backs and slot recievers can make receptions and move the chains almost unchallanged. Further more the depth at SS is almost nill. Tank Williams was a JAG brought in for an expirement at ILB, an expirment that did not really produce much in the way of results. Behind him is career practice sqaud member Ventrone. If the FS position is addressed in the draft I can see Sanders being a good option to bolster the SS position.

Conclusion (not quite QED) - Despite the relative weakness of the draft for the DB, adding talent to the secondary is major goal for the weekend and if the potential for a very-good to elite DB comes available, the value to the team makes it a smart pick.

mgteich · Apr 6, 2009

1) I agree that we would be better off with a developing elite corner at least of the quality of Samuel. However, I don't anyone close in the draft.

2) We disagree regard Tank, but I am fine with drafting Moore, Chung or Vaughn at SS.

3) I would like to see us draft Rahad as a free safety.

BOTTOM LINE
We'd be set for years at safety with Meriweather, Sanders, Moore and Johnson.
We'd be set for at least 2009 with Bodden, Hobbs, Springs, Wheatley and Wilhite.

14thDragon said:
I think the secondary abounds with oppurtunities to upgrade.

Corner: With Samuel gone, the secondary lost its elite player and the group as a whole went from average to bad. That viod has yet to be filled. The current FA group brought in improve the back-end of the CB position but do little to replace the gap at the number one spot. Getting an elite or even a possibly elite CB going into the future is a glaring need. Wheatley and Whilhite have shown the promise to be good 2 and 3 CB but may not be true shut-down corners. They will undoubtedly improve with experience but adding more talent will not go to waste. In my opinion, the pass defense of the Team as Whole is improved by the upgrades over, O'Neal and hopefully Hobbs, and will improve again with a consitent pass rush; however the defense still lacks a CB that can win one-on-one with most #1 WR.

Free Safety: At present the FS is Sanders with back-up coming from Springs and possibly Spann. None of these options really inspires a lot of confidence. Adding a true play-making FS would shore up the middle of the field greatly.

Strong Safety: Merriwether has surprisingly done well at the SS position, I had him pegged as centerfield type of FS. But the loss of Harrison still shows in the middle. Tight-ends, running backs and slot recievers can make receptions and move the chains almost unchallanged. Further more the depth at SS is almost nill. Tank Williams was a JAG brought in for an expirement at ILB, an expirment that did not really produce much in the way of results. Behind him is career practice sqaud member Ventrone. If the FS position is addressed in the draft I can see Sanders being a good option to bolster the SS position.

Conclusion (not quite QED) - Despite the relative weakness of the draft for the DB, adding talent to the secondary is major goal for the weekend and if the potential for a very-good to elite DB comes available, the value to the team makes it a smart pick.

mayoclinic · Apr 6, 2009

mgteich said:
I agree that we would be better off with a developing elite corner at least of the quality of Samuel. However, I don't anyone close in the draft.

Come on. I'm not in favor of us drafting CB early, but to say that Darius Butler as a prospect doesn't come close to offering the potential of developing into an "elite corner at least of the quality of Samuel" seems a bit extreme. One could quite possibly add several other candidates, but Butler is the most obvious one.

KevinFaulk-33 · Apr 6, 2009

mgteich said:
1) I agree that we would be better off with a developing elite corner at least of the quality of Samuel. However, I don't anyone close in the draft.

2) We disagree regard Tank, but I am fine with drafting Moore, Chung or Vaughn at SS.

3) I would like to see us draft Rahad as a free safety.

BOTTOM LINE
We'd be set for years at safety with Meriweather, Sanders, Moore and Johnson.
We'd be set for at least 2009 with Bodden, Hobbs, Springs, Wheatley and Wilhite.

Do you want to draft either William Moore and Rashad Johnson? I mean both of them?

I think that is a good idea, but only if Rashad is choosen with the compensatory pick, or at least in the third round...

mgteich · Apr 6, 2009

Yes , I would like to draft both. Let us presume that we do not get an early OT and choose to wait until Day Two to draft a possible future upgrade at OT.

ONE SCENARIO
23 Gilbert/Jackson/Hood
34 Highest value linebacker available (my choices are Laurinitis or Sintim)
47 Wood or Moore if Wood is not available
58 Moore or Johnson
89 Johnson or an OG
97 OT backup
124 LB (there are many options here)

I think it is reasonable to use all our choice in this great draft. I come out with a DE, 2 OL's, 2 DB's and 2 LB's.

KevinFaulk-33 said:
Do you want to draft either William Moore and Rashad Johnson? I mean both of them?

I think that is a good idea, but only if Rashad is choosen with the compensatory pick, or at least in the third round...

Box_O_Rocks · Apr 6, 2009

I see this as a two Safety draft class, at least one SS with good cover skills, and at least one "tweener" with excellent cover skills. I do expect at least one CB, preferably in the late rounds, but an Alphonso Smith early isn't unimaginable; I also expect a UDFA prospect.

Safety depth is barely adequate with Spann, Slater, and Williams, and some situational work from Springs and emergency help from Ventrone. There's room on the Practice Squad in terms of depth management to be considered.

There's room on the Practice Squad for CB too.

captain stone · Apr 6, 2009

mgteich said:
I could see us drafting zero, one or two defensive backs, but I don't see any real need. For the record I would draft at least one safety because of the value likely to be available at 47, 58. and perhaps even at 89.
==========================================
DO WE NEED A CORNER?
1) We are certainly set for 2009. Belichick took care of that with the signing of Springs and Bodden. This board wanted Wheatley to start in 2008 based on his preseason play. Wilhite is a decent nickel and was starting by year's end and was playing solid special teams.
Springs is old & injury-prone, Bodden is signed for only one year, Wheatley is small & injury-prone, and the only reason Wilhite was starting was that there was almost literally nobody else available; he's not even dime-worthy on a good secondary.

2) I would think that we are set for 2010 also. Wheatley and Wilhite are our developing prospects, and they are progressing. There is no reason to add another youngster. Hobbs will play 2010 unless there is a new CBA. Springs can start or backup as needed. If need be, we can add a veteran in 2010.
Youngsters need to be added every single year. Springs' good health in 2010 is even less of a given than his health in 2009. Bodden should have been offered the 3-year contract, and Springs the 1-year contract.

3) There aren't any top corners that we just must have. The value is not there since there are no top corners. All will be overvalued. I would expect that six safeties will be better values. I expect there to be a higher valued safeties until our list of six top safeties is exhausted: Chung, Delmas, Johnson, Moore, Smith, and Vaughn.
Agreed. The only CB worth considering at 23 is Butler, but that's too early for him, and he'll prob. be gone by 34, as might VDavis & SSmith. ASmith & DJMoore might still be there, but I still might not take either of them there.

DO WE NEED A STRONG SAFETY?
The need is not there. We have a reasonable backup in Williams who is a top special teamer, exactly what we need at this roster spot.
The need is definitely there. Expecting Tank to stay healthy is unreasonable. This is my most obvious position for which we should use one of our top-100 picks, when considering both value & need.

DO WE NEED A FREE SAFETY?
The need is not there. Springs and Spann are OK enough as backups.
Fixed it for ya.

BOTTOM LINE
I still see the same value as I did a couple of months ago: Moore and Johnson. Look at the mocks. I still think that they provide the best value and would be solid patriot picks.

Will Moore = Yes; Rashad Johnson = No. After all, the need is not there at FS.

Seneschal2 · Apr 6, 2009

mgteich said:
DO WE NEED A CORNER?

1) We are certainly set for 2009. Belichick took care of that with the signing of Springs and Bodden. This board wanted Wheatley to start in 2008 based on his preseason play. Wilhite is a decent nickel and was starting by year's end and was playing solid special teams.

2) I would think that we are set for 2010 also. Wheatley and Wilhite are our developing prospects, and they are progressing. There is no reason to add another youngster. Hobbs will play 2010 unless there is a new CBA. Springs can start or backup as needed. If need be, we can add a veteran in 2010.

3) There aren't any top corners that we just must have. The value is not there since there are no top corners. All will be overvalued.

I've got a post floating around that's worth repeating...

Belichick has never drafted a CB in round one with the Pats. The earliest CB selected was Wilson (round two) who became the starting FS. Next is Wheatley from the last draft (round two), who will be competing for the LCB role this season. Hobbs, the RCB starter was selected in round three. Samuel, whom you alluded to, was drafted in round four. Both Hobbs and Samuel were not on anyone's binky list back then, yet BB knew about them, and developed them into starters. Why then, is it not possible that there's one CB who has starter potential somewhere in THIS draft?

We have a reference list of 13 CBs that the Pats have shown some interest in. From the list, 6 have had private workouts, and another 3 are official visits. And those are just the names that have been reported. Chances are, with BB's ability to spot CB talent, there's a Samuel-in-the-making among them somewhere -- or at least someone to take a chance on.

alvinnf · Apr 6, 2009

No corner in round 1, although, S by the end of round 2 is most likely. Guys like Chung and Moore might be too hard to pass up. Chung for his special teams prowess and Moore for his versatility. Safety is a position that is shorter on talent. Competition and learning required, you take a guy earlier and hope you get to teach him the D, before an injury forces him onto the field. That position on this team has to be one of the more difficult to pick up fast.

DocE · Apr 7, 2009

CB: Hobbs, Springs, Bodden, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson

Do we NEED a CB? No, I think the Patriots have 5 CB's they can win with right now. Richardson is unlikely to make the roster barring injury. I agree with others that there is a need for a legitimate no.1 CB. I don't see a guy who is a slam dunk prospect CB in this draft and not many who have better resumes than Wheatley. Guys I think have no.1 CB potential: Vontae Davis, Darius Butler, Sean Smith. None of them are a sure thing, but all have some attributes of a no.1 CB. I think Alphonso Smith and Malcolm Jenkins are morel likely to be solid CB's than the above trio, but less likely to become elite.

Do we NEED a S? I am lumping both positions together, because I believe the Patriots are moving more towards left and right safety's than a traditional FS and SS. I see Merriweather and Sanders as locks for the roster and see Springs as providing some depth. Antwain Spann has been released several times, so I have no reason to believe that the Patriots view him as a solid member of the roster. Tank Williams has had 3...1,2, THREE season ending knee injuries. To count on Tank being a part of the Patriots next year is foolish at best. The Patriots need a 3rd pure safety on the roster whether that's a bigger in the box safety in the Rodney mold or a rangier free safety type. I think they could take one of both, but they don't need 2, though they certainly could find room for 2 drafted safety's on the roster.

Do We Need: CB, SS, FS, swing DB?

mgteich

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14thDragon

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

mgteich

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mayoclinic

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KevinFaulk-33

On the Game Day Roster

mgteich

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Box_O_Rocks

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captain stone

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Seneschal2

In the Starting Line-Up

alvinnf

In the Starting Line-Up

DocE

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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